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View Poll Results: Do you agree with minimum alcohol pricing?
I agree because we have drinking problems in Ireland. 273 20.67%
I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government. 1,048 79.33%
Voters: 1321. You may not vote on this poll

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14-11-2019, 22:05   #3991
Leroy42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hatrickpatrick View Post
Not all of us agree that social engineering is a good thing. Your posts are predicated on the idea that the government should be trying to push people towards one kind of lifestyle or another instead of leaving people alone to make their own life choices. Not everyone agrees with that and many of us are diametrically opposed to it.
You have got it confused. The government is trying to stop commercial entities from pushing people into choosing their product.

The government are not stopping anybody (of legal age) from drinking. We are still free to make whatever choices we want, but less influenced by those looking solely to profit.
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14-11-2019, 22:05   #3992
cjmc
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Originally Posted by beggars_bush View Post
Alcohol is a drug and needs to be regulated, along with the advertising and sales

There are also estimated to be 1 million teetotallers in Ireland, so not everyone is going out getting sloshed every weekend

True. And any advertising limits such as before, after and during soccer , rugby matches when teens are watching should be welcomed.
Minimum pricing however is not the way to go. Anyone around the border can testify that Good Friday was the best piss up of the year . And anyone who has gone shopping in late November up to Christmas to the likes of newry can testify seeing all D and W reg vans loading up with booze because of price. Minimum pricing will just make it an all year round trip and encourage smuggling gangs
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14-11-2019, 22:08   #3993
Fr Tod Umptious
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hatrickpatrick View Post
Not all of us agree that social engineering is a good thing. Your posts are predicated on the idea that the government should be trying to push people towards one kind of lifestyle or another instead of leaving people alone to make their own life choices. Not everyone agrees with that and many of us are diametrically opposed to it.
Yea I agree that there are certain libertarian types out there you don't like government restrictions

But alcohol is known to be a problem, it's a fact that it causes health problems, emotional problems, domestic violence problems, etc etc.

So why not curtail the visibility of it in areas with high density of children, e,g, schools.

We already restrict where and when and too whom it can be sold.

In your opinion should those restrictions be removed also ?
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14-11-2019, 22:09   #3994
elperello
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Originally Posted by Fr Tod Umptious View Post
The mural is a piece of advertising because the brand owner is actually paying the building owner to have it there

Regardless of who painted it it's a piece of advertising not a piece of public art.

I have passed it many times, it's presence or otherwise does not bother me.

I have not read the legislation so I don't know if it allows unbranded "advertising"(oxymoron I know) or not.

A unbranded image would of course not have the same subliminal effect on children as a branded one would have but it would still be promoting alcohol so yea it would be equally damaging
I would hold that the fact that it was painted by two local artists and was an expression of their imagination qualifies it as art.

Have a read - http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2.../en/html#sec14

Bizarrely if it was actually on a pub it would be legal. As we know our legislators don't want to upset the VFI or LVA.

An unbranded image could well be legal.

In any case it is very unlikely that a pint of black porter is an appealing image to underage drinkers. A can of whatever they can get behind a bush is more likely in my experience
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14-11-2019, 22:37   #3995
odyssey06
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I have been drenched in Guinness advertising since forever. Soaked.
Even had a few Guinnesses on Arthurs Day...
And yet... I hardly ever touch the stuff.
Nothing to do with advertising or price.
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14-11-2019, 22:57   #3996
Leroy42
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Originally Posted by odyssey06 View Post
I have been drenched in Guinness advertising since forever. Soaked.
Even had a few Guinnesses on Arthurs Day...
And yet... I hardly ever touch the stuff.
Nothing to do with advertising or price.
Let's see. Do we take your anecdote as proof or look to the millions spent on advertising each year as proof.

Even you agree that you succumb to advertising by changing from your usual to Guiness on the brand created Arthur's day.

It has everything to do with advertising, unless you want us to believe you happened upon Arthur's day by yourself
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14-11-2019, 23:39   #3997
Doctor Jimbob
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Originally Posted by Leroy42 View Post
You have got it confused. The government is trying to stop commercial entities from pushing people into choosing their product.

The government are not stopping anybody (of legal age) from drinking. We are still free to make whatever choices we want, but less influenced by those looking solely to profit.
If commercial entities pushing people into choosing their product is a bad thing, do you think all advertising should be banned? If you do, fair enough.

I think it's unlikely that advertising has any significant effect on making people drink in the first place. I started drinking cheap cider in fields with my mates. In college I drank whatever lager happened to be cheap or on offer. I think most people are in the same boat.

Increasing the price would have more of an effect, but thats just going to drive people to a)illegal sources, as has happened with cigarettes or b)brewing their own.

As others have said, young people are drinking less and less anyway. Do we really need government intervention here? If we do, I think education is surely a better option than lazy options like increasing price or banning advertising. I know I've cut down my drinking since reading up on it, I'm sure plenty others would do the same.
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15-11-2019, 00:01   #3998
cjmc
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Can anyone post a photo of this art/ad. I gather it someone with a pint of stout ?
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15-11-2019, 01:27   #3999
Hotblack Desiato
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The most effective anti-tobacco and anti-alcohol measure ever introduced for the "young people of Ireland" (patronising term or what) was the invention of prepaid mobile phone credit.

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Originally Posted by Fr Tod Umptious View Post
Now I had no idea about the difference between Major and Rothmans and not did I care, but I knew what to ask for when I went into that shop.
I knew what to ask for aged 9 because my teacher told me to get him twenty Carroll's No.1 in the shop I still knew it was a stupid thing to smoke and I never did. Oh and the shop gave them to me no questions asked.

Last edited by Hotblack Desiato; 15-11-2019 at 01:34.
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15-11-2019, 01:28   #4000
Hotblack Desiato
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Originally Posted by denartha View Post
Charming.

Well anyone who accepts what the government spouts in the name of protecting our children from the daemon drink is a moron in mine.
Especially when what they're really up to is trying to look after their publican friends (and many of them are publicans themselves.)
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15-11-2019, 02:31   #4001
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Was up north last weekend. Jaysus we do get shafted here for booze
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15-11-2019, 03:17   #4002
Hello 2D Person Below
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Raising the price of alcohol will do **** all.

There are many countries that have far cheaper drink than us that drink less. It's a cultural issue.
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15-11-2019, 06:56   #4003
Fr Tod Umptious
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Originally Posted by Hotblack Desiato View Post
Especially when what they're really up to is trying to look after their publican friends (and many of them are publicans themselves.)
I don't think MUP is a good solution.

But I have no problem with the advertising changes.

Even though both get lumped together, they are mutually exclusive in my opinion.
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15-11-2019, 09:08   #4004
Leroy42
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Originally Posted by Doctor Jimbob View Post
If commercial entities pushing people into choosing their product is a bad thing, do you think all advertising should be banned? If you do, fair enough.
Yeah, because thats what I said! How do you go from curbing advertising on alcohol to stopping all advertising?

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Originally Posted by Doctor Jimbob View Post
I think it's unlikely that advertising has any significant effect on making people drink in the first place. I started drinking cheap cider in fields with my mates. In college I drank whatever lager happened to be cheap or on offer. I think most people are in the same boat.
What you happen to think isn't really the standard, or me for that matter. Advertising works. We know this because of multiple studies, the millions of Euros spent each year, and simply look at the value of brands. Part of advertising is to normalise a product. Make vaping cool is the most recent example. It terms of products like alcohol, it attempts to make it cool, and fun and get make sure that peoples opinions are backup up. And it clearly works.

And why did you start drinking? Instead of doing something else. Sure your peers, parents, friends etc had a major role (society in general) but being surrounded by the names, the brands, keeps it at the forefront of peoples thinking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor Jimbob View Post
Increasing the price would have more of an effect, but thats just going to drive people to a)illegal sources, as has happened with cigarettes or b)brewing their own.

Yeah, I agree. Pricing on its own won't solve anything in part for the reasons you have shown. Thats why it needs a combined effort, and that is where adjustments to the advertising regime come in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor Jimbob View Post
As others have said, young people are drinking less and less anyway. Do we really need government intervention here? If we do, I think education is surely a better option than lazy options like increasing price or banning advertising. I know I've cut down my drinking since reading up on it, I'm sure plenty others would do the same.
Education is ongoing and should be increased. Garda dealing with drunks, fines for publicans serving underage of intoxicated patrons. More severe penalties for drunk driving, less acceptance of alcohol as a diminishing in crimes. All these can help reduce the acceptance of alcohol within society.

But all of these can work in conjunction with advertising restrictions, it is not a case of either or. We have seen the dramatic reduction in cigarette smoking and part of that is undoubtedly down to a reduction in the visibility of the product.

And again, you lose nothing. You can still buy the product, consume it. All the advertising restrictions are taking about is setting standards on alcohol companies on who they should be targeting.
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15-11-2019, 09:59   #4005
cadaliac
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Originally Posted by cjmc View Post
Can anyone post a photo of this art/ad. I gather it someone with a pint of stout ?
Previous page - on one of the posts.
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