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18-08-2016, 22:32   #16
Serephucus
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Originally Posted by thegreenbean View Post
Hehe, 32 cores
PC-Per has a nice review from Ryan. It's looking ok for now. Intel need a good kick in the ass so it's going to be exciting win or fail
link
Exactly. At the very least, it'll be a kick in the sack for Intel. Something they have been in dire need of for years.
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18-08-2016, 22:32   #17
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No, but you said Intel is not budget friendly in Ireland and budget builds are non-existant in Ireland. Neither of which is really true at all. It doesn't matter if you're creating a budget build, a mid-range build, enthusiast build or ultra high-end rig, it will always be cheaper in the US, so there's no point in singling out the 'budget' market.



That's a strange comparison. The i5-6500 or 6600 non-k is light years ahead of the FX-8350 and is around €190 for the former or €210 for the latter. It's the i3-6100, i5-6500 and i7-6700 or similar segments that AMD need to target hard, not enthusiast K series CPUs.

I still don't get why you think the budget market is non-existant. An i3-6100 is €120. An RX460 is €120. The only cheaper CPU's are a) intel pentiums which are not designed for high-end gaming and never were/or will be or b) AMD budget quads, which are terrible for games. It's not realistic to expect CPU's in the 50-100 range to excel at all the latest games. It wouldn't make sense for AMD or Intel to release such a CPU.
I am not trying to compare the FX-8350 with the Core i5 6600k. I am saying that AMD's Zen CPU that will be similar in price to the FX-8350 is said to be on par with the i5 6600k. Which is why I used the FX-8350 price as a reference.

I said that I think that the budget market is basically non existent when it comes to Intel. My first build was a budget build with a Radeon 6850 and an FX-6100 so I definitely know that budget builds are possible. I also didn't single out budget builds as the only ones that are cheaper in the US. I just used them as an example.
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18-08-2016, 23:15   #18
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The OP is a school leaver so to be clear what he calls budget and what a FT salary earner calls budget might be quite different.
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18-08-2016, 23:19   #19
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The OP is a school leaver so to be clear what he calls budget and what a FT salary earner calls budget might be quite different.
Haha yeah I should have probably clarified that. By budget I meant like €500 - €600. My first pc was within that price range but luckily I got a job about 2 years back and was able to save up to build a nice X99 build but I sold that a couple of months ago and somehow broke even.
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19-08-2016, 09:47   #20
 
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The OP is a school leaver so to be clear what he calls budget and what a FT salary earner calls budget might be quite different.
I don't think that's true, a budget build is a budget build, and we all understand what it means really, it's one of the most requested builds in the B&U forum. To me a budget build is universally recognised as sub €600, which would get you a Skylake i3, rX460, and SSD based system with a solid case and power supply. That's pretty bullet proof.

You could go even cheaper but the price to performance ratio falls off a cliff with the likes of the G4400 on Intel's side and the 860K on AMD's part - even though the G4400 is a way better purchase for broad performance and upgrade potential.

At stock speed the 6600K is no faster than the regular variants like i5-6500 and i5-6600, which are the €190-210 price range. You can't compare an FX-8350 to a 6600K with any sort of standardization, it's not a valid comparison. A more accurate comparison would be the FX8350 v. i5-6600 non-k or i5-6500.

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I said that I think that the budget market is basically non existent when it comes to Intel.
But why? Is a Skylake i3-6100 not an exceptional budget gaming CPU @ €120? What are the AMD alternatives? There are none....the FX8350 is €160 and is unreliable performance wise and a dead end platform.

If anything, the budget market is healthy when it comes to Intel and totally non-existent when it comes to AMD.

Last edited by TerrorFirmer; 19-08-2016 at 09:52.
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19-08-2016, 10:42   #21
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But why? Is a Skylake i3-6100 not an exceptional budget gaming CPU @ €120? What are the AMD alternatives? There are none....the FX8350 is €160 and is unreliable performance wise and a dead end platform.

If anything, the budget market is healthy when it comes to Intel and totally non-existent when it comes to AMD.
Fx6300 is still quite a good cpu and would more be the equivalent. The new skylake I3 performs better in cpu heavy games though.

I would like to see Zen do well, but I have a feeling that it will fall slightly short both in IPC and clock speed compared to current Intel CPU's. It might end up where AMD just try to aim for high volume low price, similar to their pricing strategy for the 4xx series.
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19-08-2016, 11:08   #22
 
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It's OK in games that are primarily GPU heavy but in CPU heavy titles it falls down, so I don't think it would make sense to recommend any FX processor over an i3 in any scenario in a new build (unless you were solely rendering or editing to take advantage of all six cores, of course).

I agree completely that Zen needs to offer solid reliable performance, not necessarily on-par with Intel, but with a more attractive performance per euro. We're at a situation now where it's your average graphics card bottlenecks your i5 and not vice versa, so plenty of scope for a lower performing, cheaper CPU that still keeps pace with mainstream cards reliably across all titles.
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19-08-2016, 11:25   #23
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I was actually pricing up a build for my dad's friend, and since he doesn't play games anymore (but wants to have a very good Photoshop machine) I recommended him an i5 mATX build.
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19-08-2016, 12:00   #24
 
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Definitely if it's within your budget, it makes sense to go i5. The longevity of Intel processors is incredible. My parents are still using a Q6600 with an SSD, it's not really much different than my own PC for the sort of things they use it for. If I sold the whole machine now it wouldn't even cover the cost of an i3 processor!
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20-08-2016, 15:35   #25
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I don't think that's true, a budget build is a budget build, and we all understand what it means really, it's one of the most requested builds in the B&U forum. To me a budget build is universally recognised as sub €600, which would get you a Skylake i3, rX460, and SSD based system with a solid case and power supply. That's pretty bullet proof.

You could go even cheaper but the price to performance ratio falls off a cliff with the likes of the G4400 on Intel's side and the 860K on AMD's part - even though the G4400 is a way better purchase for broad performance and upgrade potential.

At stock speed the 6600K is no faster than the regular variants like i5-6500 and i5-6600, which are the €190-210 price range. You can't compare an FX-8350 to a 6600K with any sort of standardization, it's not a valid comparison. A more accurate comparison would be the FX8350 v. i5-6600 non-k or i5-6500.



But why? Is a Skylake i3-6100 not an exceptional budget gaming CPU @ €120? What are the AMD alternatives? There are none....the FX8350 is €160 and is unreliable performance wise and a dead end platform.

If anything, the budget market is healthy when it comes to Intel and totally non-existent when it comes to AMD.
Okay, I am no expert, but i think what he ment was:

If you get same performance as i5 6600k for the price of Fx8350 ( which is cheaper), then new zens will definitely be a power that Intel will need to deal with.
These days fanboysism is still around, but not as strong as used to be. Gamers these days mostly go for best bang for the money. And if zen will give same performance for lower price then gamers will buy it. At very least it will be a good kick to Intel to be competitive and drop prices.

As for my own point of view:
I want amd to do something similar what they did with rx480. I don't want to see something stupidly fast and stupidly expensive, just because they are too dogs and I can charge what they want ( nvidia 1070 and 1080 situation).
Do a very solid cpu that us great bang for the money. Solid performance for decent money. Makes us 90% of average ePenis holders happy and the rest of market that can drop a lot of money on a build can have their Intel with a premium price tag.
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20-08-2016, 16:20   #26
 
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Well yes I did make that same point, that AMD don't need to be as fast as Intel they just need to offer solid reliable performance at a lower price point. But the thing is, say they introduce a new Zen CPU at €150 that's sort of i5-6400 performance level - all Intel have to do is drop prices and match them. AMD really have an uphill battle.

Also you can't really say '6600K performance' because there is no standard performance. It would be more accurate to use i5-6500 or i5-6600 non-k which are the same performance at stock. €50 of the 6600K's cost is the overclocking ability. Unless of course Zen CPU's turn out to be excellent overclockers, then of course we could compare directly with 6600k but for now at stock speeds we should be comparing to non-K cpus.

I think it's good for us because it means prices will drop on Intel parts, but I'm just not convinced AMD can do enough to get back a solid foothold. If Zen performs well, Intel will just drop prices on skylake to compete, and then in a year or two will release another killer CPU line that will be much faster, again, most likely.

I agree Nvidia pricing is crazy but Intel pricing is really not bad at all at the moment. i3 is €120, i5 is €180, those are not bad prices considering they are way faster and far more future-proof than AM3+, which is still €100 for Fx6300 and €160 for Fx8350. I don't quite understand how people are acting like Intel are price gouging.

More competition is good for everyone but Intel offer good value for money even now, they more or less always have since Core2Duo came out in 2006.
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20-08-2016, 17:00   #27
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I think we all know what we mean when we compare it to 6600k and not with non K cpu. We want an overclocker like K series, but cheaper. As we presume now zen will have overclocking model and thats the one most people pay attention now. I personally compare to 6600k, maybe you want to compare it to other cpu. At the moment is just everyone's personal opinion and guessing.
As for prices: we used to pay that money, because we don't know any better. And the reason we pay that much not because Intel giving us a good deal, it's because Intel has no competition and can charge what they want. I bet you if in last few years there would have been competitive side to cpu world, we would talk about cpu prices being normal not 120 and 150, but 80 and 120 for example.
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20-08-2016, 17:23   #28
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Highly doubt i5s would be much lower to be fair, they trounce 8350s despite being only €30 dearer. If Intel could match the price or even go below what an 8350 costs they'd make a total laughing stock of AMD.

FX CPUs are close to the bottom of what AMD can afford I would imagine seeing as they're desperate for a piece of the market share back, and i3s and i5s are pretty close to them in price.
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20-08-2016, 18:05   #29
 
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As for prices: we used to pay that money, because we don't know any better. And the reason we pay that much not because Intel giving us a good deal, it's because Intel has no competition and can charge what they want. I bet you if in last few years there would have been competitive side to cpu world, we would talk about cpu prices being normal not 120 and 150, but 80 and 120 for example.
I don't think this is true. Intel could get away with raising the prices on i3, i5 and i7 because they have no competition at the moment, and they destroy the FX line despite only being a little bit more expensive as Digital as outlined above.

Intel could pull an 'Nvidia' and start charging more - people would still buy, because the FX line is so sub-standard at this point.

An FX8350 is only €20 cheaper than an i5-6400. For that €20 saving you get a way worse performer, a dead end socket, and higher power consumption.

Can we really claim Intel are overcharging people?

If anything they've keep pricing competitive to further drive people away from AMD.

CPU prices as they are now are relatively quite normal compared to how they've always been over the past decade.
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01-02-2017, 13:36   #30
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http://www.pcworld.com/article/31635...-vega-gpu.html

AMD Zen (Ryzen) confirmed for early March 2017 launch.
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