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CIE Union Fanatics/Extremists?

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135678

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  • Options
    #62
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,984 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    So what's your solution? You're opposed to the workers reducing their Ts and Cs. Youre opposed to to FTPs being asked to contribute. Go on then.


    it's not up to me to come up with a solution, i'm not management of the company.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Options
    #63
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    end of the road wrote: »
    it's not up to me to come up with a solution, i'm not management of the company.

    11514-animated_gifchat8etf.gif


  • Options
    #64
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    end of the road wrote: »
    it's not up to me to come up with a solution, i'm not management of the company.
    Grand so. Hurler on the ditch. Nothing of value to contribute.


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    #65
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,851 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    Talking about what figure a driver is on is irrelevant.

    Bus drivers tend to do shift work therefore the real figure in question is their basic pay. The reason that gets topped up is because they work unsociable hours that many of their detractors would never dream of working.

    As for the "driving a bus is a simple job" claim, I don't buy it. The endless concentrating on the road, cars, pedestrians, cyclists, while having to deal with customers, no way in hell would I do it even if I was offered €50k a year.


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    #66
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    Talking about what figure a driver is on is irrelevant.

    Bus drivers tend to do shift work therefore the real figure in question is their basic pay. The reason that gets topped up is because they work unsociable hours that many of their detractors would never dream of working.

    As for the "driving a bus is a simple job" claim, I don't buy it. The endless concentrating on the road, cars, pedestrians, cyclists, while having to deal with customers, no way in hell would I do it even if I was offered €50k a year.

    Radio, mobiles. Lol at the customers. Unless you work a really bad rout it's pretty much easy. You realise the bus drivers have a HGV that's all. Not a degree in rocket science. I remember a few high profile crashes due to mobiles. The lads on the late shift are on very very good rates.


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    #67
    magentis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,249 ✭✭✭magentis


    What is a rout?

    And I don't think a bus is a Heavy Goods Vehicle as it carries people not goods.


  • Options
    #68
    Winterlong
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭Winterlong


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Company fast on the way to insolvency. Job looses or pay cuts 2 options. Dole or a job.

    I heard on the radio that if they did lay off all staff the average redundancy payment would be upward of 200k each.
    :eek:


  • Options
    #69
    The Rape of Lucretia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    Talking about what figure a driver is on is irrelevant.

    Bus drivers tend to do shift work therefore the real figure in question is their basic pay. The reason that gets topped up is because they work unsociable hours that many of their detractors would never dream of working.

    As for the "driving a bus is a simple job" claim, I don't buy it. The endless concentrating on the road, cars, pedestrians, cyclists, while having to deal with customers, no way in hell would I do it even if I was offered €50k a year.

    Driving a bus is as simple as a job gets, and so should be pretty much one of the lowest paid jobs out there. Are there really even people who couldnt drive one ? Its a €25k a year job with a little extra for the nights a holidays hours.

    A major problem, as well as tge basic rate with these drivers are the allowances and premiums, which are simply off the graph in todays world, and are a legacy from its state employment past. Compounded then by knock on relativities for other staff, making them all over paid.
    A state subvention for a public transport bus service, uneconomic rural routes, and even the old age pass, are fine. As long as you get value for money - and BE today does not give it. It seems the mgmt is addressing this by cutting the overtime, allowance rates etc. Its a start.

    Unions unfortunately dont care about jobs - until redundancy notices are issued. Up to that, they will try to screw as much as they can out of the system for their members, whether they deserve it or not, whether it is sustainable or not, whether it is moral or not, or whether it robs an overpaying taxpayer or not.


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    #70
    riemann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,063 ✭✭✭riemann


    The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »
    Driving a bus is as simple as a job gets, and so should be pretty much one of the lowest paid jobs out there. Are there really even people who couldnt drive one ?

    Sadly the entire world isn't made up of talented people like your good self.
    I'm sure you'll breeze through all the different driving tests in a few years when you are eligible to take them.


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    #71
    stimpson
    Registered Users Posts: 7,815 ✭✭✭stimpson


    end of the road wrote: »
    it's meaningless as bus eireann is a big company with a couple of thousand employees where as the privates are smaller.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Average


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    #72
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,805 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ClovenHoof wrote:
    Why can't we have proper public transport instead of these loons.


    'Keep the recovery going' folks!


  • Options
    #73
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,984 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »
    Driving a bus is as simple as a job gets, and so should be pretty much one of the lowest paid jobs out there. Are there really even people who couldnt drive one ? Its a €25k a year job with a little extra for the nights a holidays hours.

    A major problem, as well as tge basic rate with these drivers are the allowances and premiums, which are simply off the graph in todays world, and are a legacy from its state employment past. Compounded then by knock on relativities for other staff, making them all over paid.
    A state subvention for a public transport bus service, uneconomic rural routes, and even the old age pass, are fine. As long as you get value for money - and BE today does not give it. It seems the mgmt is addressing this by cutting the overtime, allowance rates etc. Its a start.

    Unions unfortunately dont care about jobs - until redundancy notices are issued. Up to that, they will try to screw as much as they can out of the system for their members, whether they deserve it or not, whether it is sustainable or not, whether it is moral or not, or whether it robs an overpaying taxpayer or not.


    it's not a 25k job, otherwise 25k is what would be paid and no more. the responsibility and the market have decided it's worth a hell of a lot more. our public transport receives one of, if not the lowest subsidy in europe, so we the tax payer are actually getting a cheep deal.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #74
    The Rape of Lucretia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    end of the road wrote: »
    it's not a 25k job, otherwise 25k is what would be paid and no more. the responsibility and the market have decided it's worth a hell of a lot more. our public transport receives one of, if not the lowest subsidy in europe, so we the tax payer are actually getting a cheep deal.

    The market hasnt decided. The market was distorted by trade union pressure on politicians and decades of disgraceful feathering of the nest of state employees. BE is NOW feeling the pressure of the market, and it is deciding that they are worth a lot less that what they are being paid today. Compare their rates to the those in the private sector. That is what they are worth in reality.


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    #75
    The Rape of Lucretia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    riemann wrote: »
    Sadly the entire world isn't made up of talented people like your good self.
    I'm sure you'll breeze through all the different driving tests in a few years when you are eligible to take them.

    Exactly. I would if I took them. Everyone one would. Its an almost nil skill job. There is simply no shortage of raw material that cant be trained cheaply and quickly to do it, and it requires no particular ability, intelligence, education, or talent. Which makes it about as generic low value job as there is.


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    #76
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,984 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »
    The market hasnt decided. The market was distorted by trade union pressure on politicians and decades of disgraceful feathering of the nest of state employees. BE is NOW feeling the pressure of the market, and it is deciding that they are worth a lot less that what they are being paid today. Compare their rates to the those in the private sector. That is what they are worth in reality.


    the market has decided. rates in the private sector are near what BE staff are on
    The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »
    Exactly. I would if I took them. Everyone one would. Its an almost nil skill job. There is simply no shortage of raw material that cant be trained cheaply and quickly to do it, and it requires no particular ability, intelligence, education, or talent. Which makes it about as generic low value job as there is.

    the market says otherwise, and thankfully we have people with experience who say you are wrong.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #77
    Míshásta
    Registered Users Posts: 634 ✭✭✭Míshásta


    Bus driving an unskilled simple job?

    No it's definitely not. I bet there are many people with the equivalent of a master's in science who would never pass the test. Travelling around with a busful of human beings is a very responsible job needing special talents.

    I'm not suggesting they be paid the equivalent of a hospital consultant, but to class the job as unskilled is just balderdash.


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    #78
    Specialun
    Registered Users Posts: 3,068 ✭✭✭Specialun


    Míshásta wrote: »
    Bus driving an unskilled simple job?

    No it's definitely not. I bet there are many people with the equivalent of a master's in science who would never pass the test. Travelling around with a busful of human beings is a very responsible job needing special talents.

    I'm not suggesting they be paid the equivalent of a hospital consultant, but to class the job as unskilled is just balderdash.


    Lets not get carried away here..its hardly quantum physics


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    #79
    CatFromHue
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,136 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    it's not unskilled as you need a bus licence so it's semi skilled.


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    #80
    The Rape of Lucretia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    CatFromHue wrote: »
    it's not unskilled as you need a bus licence so it's semi skilled.

    Well, very slightly skilled. But like tying your shoe laces, everyone can learn to do it with a little practice.
    The bottom line is they are grossly overpaid. And probably bitch themselves about the quality of politicians and government when it is the very same politicians that are responsible for overpaying them. No marches to Kildare street by drivers objecting to how they are disgracefully overpaid, and the government should force BE to rectify this horrendous waste when people would happly do their job for two thirds of the amount.


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    #81
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,805 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    i really cant wait for us to move on from the utopia ideology of the 'free market', be less of this nonsense.


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    #82
    stimpson
    Registered Users Posts: 7,815 ✭✭✭stimpson


    Míshásta wrote: »
    Bus driving an unskilled simple job?

    No it's definitely not.

    My old man got a bus licence to do voluntary work for a charity group. I think it took him 6 weeks part time. While he was doing his full time job.


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    #83
    titan18
    Registered Users Posts: 11,932 ✭✭✭✭titan18


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    a large of our policies are actually right leaning particularly economically

    Ha. Good one.


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    #84
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,805 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    titan18 wrote: »
    Ha. Good one.

    not really that good to be honest, really having dreadful effects on us socially, economically and environmentally


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    #85
    magentis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,249 ✭✭✭magentis


    stimpson wrote: »
    My old man got a bus licence to do voluntary work for a charity group. I think it took him 6 weeks part time. While he was doing his full time job.

    And how about his cpc?

    And what size bus?


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    #86
    stimpson
    Registered Users Posts: 7,815 ✭✭✭stimpson


    magentis wrote: »
    And how about his cpc?

    And what size bus?

    I'd have to ask him about the CPC. It was a large enough bus. Big enough for 10 seated passengers and at least a dozen wheelchairs.


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    #87
    pablo128
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,221 ✭✭✭pablo128


    stimpson wrote: »
    My old man got a bus licence to do voluntary work for a charity group. I think it took him 6 weeks part time. While he was doing his full time job.

    My brothers trained for 4 years each as electricians and plumbing trade. Bus Eireann drivers get paid more than them.


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    #88
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,805 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    pablo128 wrote: »
    My brothers trained for 4 years each as electricians and plumbing trade. Bus Eireann drivers get paid more than them.

    is the problem with the public sector or with the trades industry?


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    #89
    Infini
    Registered Users Posts: 4,573 ✭✭✭Infini


    pablo128 wrote: »
    My brothers trained for 4 years each as electricians and plumbing trade. Bus Eireann drivers get paid more than them.

    Think this is the mentality issue some people have with unions. They get bitter over the fact their negotiating position is weaker when they definately deserve better but cant do anything about it. They get upset at the feeling theyre (BE) on better wages on them but the problem is somewhat systemic of society itself. Some people are stuck on crap wages or should be on a higher average wage at that point in their lives than theyre currently at. Cost of living goes up but wages dont. They then hear some dodgy or incompetent piece of news where they think these staff are on massive money even tho the information may not be actually precise then get bitter.

    BE isnt perfect like the other 2 companies bad management both in skill and attitude has polarised opinions of the staff to the point that they wont give anything out of simple lack of trust and 10 years of stagnant wages. Government policies dont help either they and the NTA deny it but theres no way they could not have their own share of the blame to go round. BE is also a service semi state meant to be there to fill the gap private operators wont bother their hole to fill and not to be considered in the same sense as a for profit company.

    Honestly the whole thing seems to be played out in the media as a way of trying to crack a nut with a sledgehammer. Too much collateral damage. Neither can it be allowed to go to the wall either the loss of services alone would be a vote burner for the government as people would be effectively abandoned in the country if the service were to cease. Not to mention the spillover into the other companies as there could be financial fallout for the pension scheme for example which is one issue that would trigger a triple strike. If management were so concerned about the state of the company negotiations shouldve been started ages ago not the feeling the issue is being dumped on the staffs heads with no warning and theyre meant to take it. All that trial by media will accomplish is further polarisation of sides and hardening of staff attitudes to this.


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    #90
    magentis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,249 ✭✭✭magentis


    stimpson wrote: »
    I'd have to ask him about the CPC. It was a large enough bus. Big enough for 10 seated passengers and at least a dozen wheelchairs.

    A dozen wheelchairs on one bus?

    No such bus exists in this country.


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    #91
    The Rape of Lucretia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    Infini2 wrote: »
    Cost of living goes up but wages dont.

    BE isnt perfect like the other 2 companies bad management both in skill and attitude has polarised opinions of the staff to the point that they wont give anything out of simple lack of trust and 10 years of stagnant wages.

    The cost of living has not gone up since the crash in 08. And it is still stable at zero.

    Wages at that time were too high throughout the economy. Hence the crash. Wages in legacy public services were even more out of whack and do not have the same facility to self correct as the private sector.

    So BE wages still need to fall, allowances and benefits reduced or be eliminated, overtime become a very rare exceptional event, and productivity increase.

    They are just going through the painful wrench from a privileged, protected, and uneconomic abuse of public funds, to one in line with the service provided, and level of work involved. It will be traumatic. But the breaking point has been reached as happened in Aer Lingus and elsewhere. BE must make the leap to the real world.


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