2700s return

end of the road · 21-10-2018 8:56pm

trellheim wrote: »

so the 2700s are not coming back then ? What else is there in Inchicore that can seat passengers ?

only the 8200s i think.
the 2700s will likely be brought back in the end i think. realistically them and new stock are the only options.

Drifter50 · 21-10-2018 9:01pm

Connolly to Sligo is a looooooonnngg way on a shake rattle and roll 2900 and the additional noise as well

end of the road · 21-10-2018 9:57pm

Drifter50 wrote: »

Connolly to Sligo is a looooooonnngg way on a shake rattle and roll 2900 and the additional noise as well

yup, for long distance they are horid junk. same with their cousins. brilliant at the suburban stuff though.

Drifter50 · 22-10-2018 7:53am

Why why why don`t IR use the 2900`s on the Hazelhatch / Phoenix Park tunnel route while the intercity routes to Sligo and Wexford get them and they are clearly unsuitable

end of the road · 22-10-2018 3:08pm

Drifter50 wrote: »

Why why why don`t IR use the 2900`s on the Hazelhatch / Phoenix Park tunnel route while the intercity routes to Sligo and Wexford get them and they are clearly unsuitable

there aren't enough 29s really and IE do not wish to run anything other then ICRS on the suburbans out of heuston. it all ultimately comes down to the decisian to site a depot at portlaoise, and to service most ICRS there. some are serviced at droghida as well.
another reason often given is supposed higher speeds out of heuston, which in my limited experience of both types of service out of there, really only apply to limited/non-stop services and not to stopping suburbans.

Jamie2k9 · 07-05-2019 4:54pm

IE made it official, 2700 no longer required? Anyone confirm?

goingnowhere · 07-05-2019 6:11pm

CME has no plans to put the 2700 back in service.

That said they have not been scrapped

end of the road · 07-05-2019 6:22pm

tbh if there are no plans to put them back in service then i can't see anything else happening but them being scrapped in the near future. i can't see what else can be done with them. the longer they sit out of service the more costly it will probably be to bring them back.

Jamie2k9 · 07-05-2019 6:29pm

goingnowhere wrote: »

CME has no plans to put the 2700 back in service.

That said they have not been scrapped

Im told staff (assuming drivers) have been instructed to remove some operational material about 2700 class from there books.

The_Wanderer · 08-05-2019 8:09pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Im told staff (assuming drivers) have been instructed to remove some operational material about 2700 class from there books.

Instructions concerning the specific operation of 2700's have been removed from the General Appendix. Nothing to stop them being put back in at a future date if the need ever arose.

Jamie2k9 · 08-05-2019 9:28pm

The_Wanderer wrote: »

Instructions concerning the specific operation of 2700's have been removed from the General Appendix. Nothing to stop them being put back in at a future date if the need ever arose.

I see, still looks like a done deal.

The instructions were fine to be left for 6 years, the sudden removal makes no sense.

The need arises now, in future they will have new trains and probably clear the way for 8100 and 2900 removal from the appendix.

Captain Chaos · 09-05-2019 11:28am

The 2700s more than likely won't return. Some of the sets are in a very bad way, external mould and nature is taking over inside some cabs. The sets that got painted into the silver ICR livery are not too bad but the sets that are in the old Commuter livery are really starting to deteriorate.

They are the same as the first block of 10 201s, 8200 DART units and the 5x 141s left in Inchicore, they are still on the books and no one is willing to write them off for whatever reason.

Thrashssacre · 09-05-2019 11:41pm

With all the hst withdrawals and the ones being kept around being halfed in length surely irish rail could pick up a few mark 3 sets and regauge them easy enough, surely there’s a few spare 201/071s knocking around?

Even just 2/3 sets to take the pressure off the 29000 and maybe keep them off intercity work.

end of the road · 10-05-2019 12:41am

Thrashssacre wrote: »

With all the hst withdrawals and the ones being kept around being halfed in length surely irish rail could pick up a few mark 3 sets and regauge them easy enough, surely there’s a few spare 201/071s knocking around?

Even just 2/3 sets to take the pressure off the 29000 and maybe keep them off intercity work.

unfortunately it's not as simple as regauge and hook up to a loco as hst mk3s receive power at a different current rate then normal mk3s so will only work with the class 43 power cars. this means as i understand it, serious and costly work to convert them to the power rate of loco hauled stock, and then any work to make them compatible with the 201s, which will need to use the head end power to provide power.
if they were to take some hsts, and i suspect it's very unlikely, then they would be better taking some power cars as well, as that would remove the issue of making them compatible with the 201s, and trying to convert power rates.

Thrashssacre · 10-05-2019 1:04am

end of the road wrote: »

unfortunately it's not as simple as regauge and hook up to a loco as hst mk3s receive power at a different current rate then normal mk3s so will only work with the class 43 power cars. this means as i understand it, serious and costly work to convert them to the power rate of loco hauled stock, and then any work to make them compatible with the 201s, which will need to use the head end power to provide power.
if they were to take some hsts, and i suspect it's very unlikely, then they would be better taking some power cars as well, as that would remove the issue of making them compatible with the 201s, and trying to convert power rates.

Ah that’s a shame.... doubt getting the power cars would be as easy as the scots as well as transport for wales seem to be snapping many of them up. Would have been nice to give the 201/071 a bit more work and preserve their working life a bit longer while also allowing irish rail to provide additional service that many may have found to be superior to what they offer now.

dowlingm · 11-05-2019 12:23pm

I wonder if Porterbrook or one of the other lessors ever looked the 2700s over with a view to installing NIR gear and shopping them as a surge/capital maintenance fleet as major overhauls came due either side of the border (such as seems to be the case for 29Ks now). Might be a bit late now if the conditions are as reported above.

goingnowhere · 11-05-2019 1:28pm

Firstly this whole bad state claim, 2700 are aluminium bodies so cannot rust

Secondly Translink cannot lease stock it’s some weird rule

The power system used on the HST Mk3 is the CIE system. CIE system is 220/380 V 50 Hz, UK is 240/415 V 50 Hz

In both cases it is the 3 phase supply at the national standard, we use 220V in Ireland and moved to 230V to match EU, the UK uses 240V and didn't really bother to move to 230V. Its fantasy really to think about it really not happening.

dowlingm · 14-05-2019 12:03pm

goingnowhere wrote: »

Firstly this whole bad state claim, 2700 are aluminium bodies so cannot rust

Secondly Translink cannot lease stock it’s some weird rule

while aluminium bodies may not oxidize they can still degrade - VIA Rail abandoned the rebuild of their LRC coaches after an initial batch because the wear and tear was found to be so extensive.

Interesting re Translink - seems a bit limiting. Wonder what the rationale is.

Geuze · 23-09-2019 10:28am

Captain Chaos wrote: »

The 2700s more than likely won't return. Some of the sets are in a very bad way, external mould and nature is taking over inside some cabs. The sets that got painted into the silver ICR livery are not too bad but the sets that are in the old Commuter livery are really starting to deteriorate.

They are the same as the first block of 10 201s, 8200 DART units and the 5x 141s left in Inchicore, they are still on the books and no one is willing to write them off for whatever reason.

I can't understand this.

This 2700 class was built in 1997-1998, so about 20 years old?

I thought trains can have a lifespan up to 40 years?

With a strong economy, more people travelling, climate change, modal shift, surely it's crazy to let 25 vehicles rot away in Inchicore?

How much would it cost to fix them up?

GM228 · 23-09-2019 10:41am

Geuze wrote: »

How much would it cost to fix them up?

In excess of €30M according to the only tender submission they received. The NTA will not pay for it.

Markcheese · 23-09-2019 10:53am

GM228 wrote: »

In excess of €30M according to the only tender submission they received. The NTA will not pay for it.

Is that because you could end with aunreliable rebuilt train, 30 million (plus) bill and unspecified time frame? As opposed to a slot on the production line and at least some kind of comeback to the supplier..?

It does seem bonkers that they're effectively scrap metal.. Half way through their lifespan..

Geuze · 23-09-2019 12:20pm

GM228 wrote: »

In excess of €30M according to the only tender submission they received. The NTA will not pay for it.

That is in excess of 1m per vehicle.

Sure new DMUs aren't much more than that?

loyatemu · 23-09-2019 2:40pm

Geuze wrote: »

That is in excess of 1m per vehicle.

Sure new DMUs aren't much more than that?

presumably that's why the NTA won't pay it.

Geuze · 23-09-2019 2:43pm

loyatemu wrote: »

presumably that's why the NTA won't pay it.

OK.

How could they be in such bad shape?

Markcheese · 23-09-2019 2:43pm

Why did they get retired in the first place? (assume it was unreliability but why?),

end of the road · 23-09-2019 3:25pm

capacity cuts as part of cost cutting i believe. they were the least reliable of the suburban rattlers and could only be used as 2 car sets since the incident on the rosslare line where a unit decoupled while on a service.

Losty Dublin · 23-09-2019 10:15pm

Geuze wrote: »

I can't understand this.

This 2700 class was built in 1997-1998, so about 20 years old?

I thought trains can have a lifespan up to 40 years?

With a strong economy, more people travelling, climate change, modal shift, surely it's crazy to let 25 vehicles rot away in Inchicore?

How much would it cost to fix them up?

DMU's have a slightly shorter life span compared to hauled carriages, and a far shorter life than locomotives. This is mainly due to the additional stresses and systems on board a DMU that can go wrong when in service over locos and carriages.

When ordered the 2700's were expected to have an in life service of about 15-18 years, assuming they didn't receive a complete rebuild in service. The same life was expected from the 2600 and 2800 class, the former of which are 25 years into traffic now and with no sign of slowing down.

Drifter50 · 23-09-2019 10:24pm

Geuze wrote: »

That is in excess of 1m per vehicle.

Sure new DMUs aren't much more than that?

You are correct, the 22K units average out at 1.2m per vehicle

Jem72 · 24-09-2019 10:17am

They cost significantly more than 1.2m per vehicle - around twice that at this point. From memory, the 22Ks were a little over 2 million a unit when they were originally bought. The new ones are costing almost 2.5 million - around 100 million for 41 units.

Still, over a million per unit represents very bad value for a refurb.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/tender-out-for-up-to-80-pre-owned-trains-to-meet-urgent-demand-1.3813067

goingnowhere · 24-09-2019 10:22am

When you only got a single quote, what do you expect?

2700s return

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