How bad is Eastern Europe etc

kalych · 18-09-2020 8:08am

TM2015 wrote: »

You will also find that people from the Baltic States consider Poland ‘Russian’ and do look quite down on Poland and Polish people. Your average Estonian, Latvian and Lithuanian culturally has a lot less common with Russia than Poland. You fill find Estonia and Northern Latvia to be quite Nordic, Latvia in general rather German and Lithuania, well not sure about them, think a bit of everything really but definitely not Nordic. And let’s be honest here, while the Baltic states were annexed by the Soviets, Poland openly embraced socialism.

The Latvians and Estonians that consider themselves Russian are Russian. Immigrated during the soviet occupation. You can’t change your ethnicity really.

Eastern Europe is incredibly diverse. You have the Baltic States which in reality are Northern European counties. You have places like Slovenia and Hungary, then Belarus and Ukraine, how about Albania and Kosovo? You’d be a bit dumb if you lumped them all in together and made assumptions that it’s pretty much the same place. It’s be like having been to Holland and assuming that life in Britain would be the same.

Also, the Iron Curtain fell 30 years ago. I think it’s time we got over thhat and stopped referring to a quarter of our the continent as ex Soviet states. Might as well keep calling Ireland ex British Colony. They are counties with their own identities!

Rant over! Only been to a handful of places. They’re all lovely!

Can't argue with any of the above. Good summary!

breezy1985 · 18-09-2020 8:19am

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

This is true and not true.

I have done this ....yes life is different. But moscow or warsaw are no less part of russia or poland than anywhere else.

Its like Ireland ..Dublin is as much a part of it as laois.

I wouldnt go to Laois for a visit unless I was forces so I doubt I want to see the Laois of Poland.

andala · 18-09-2020 8:47am

TM2015 wrote: »

You will also find that people from the Baltic States consider Poland ‘Russian’ and do look quite down on Poland and Polish people. Your average Estonian, Latvian and Lithuanian culturally has a lot less common with Russia than Poland. You fill find Estonia and Northern Latvia to be quite Nordic, Latvia in general rather German and Lithuania, well not sure about them, think a bit of everything really but definitely not Nordic. And let’s be honest here, while the Baltic states were annexed by the Soviets, Poland openly embraced socialism.

Of course I'm operating on stereotypes here, it's After Hours after all. I like all the Lithuanian, Latvian and Russian-Latvian people I've met here, they're the nicest people ever. See, when you share borders there's always quite a lot of shared history (eg Polish-Lithuanian Union) and history is always taught from a certain, homeland-centered point of view. Did we embrace socialism? It was given to us as a present by our WWII allies - The UK and the US and it immediately resulted in trainloads of our best and brightest brought to places like Katyn where, in recognition for their wartime heroism, they were shot and buried in ditches. There was a constant underground opposition operating during communism, and finally once the price of canteen lunches went to high, a chubby guy with a mustache climbed over the wall of a shipyard and inspired the fall of communism* Most Lithuanians and Latvians my age (40s) can still speak Russian, Polish people not so much (well, we think we can but as it turns out we just put on a funny accent and speak Polish), because they were part of a country where Russian was the spoken language. We had compulsory Russian in schools alongside western languages.

* I may be simplifying a bit here

ohnonotgmail · 18-09-2020 8:54am

andala wrote: »

Of course I'm operating on stereotypes here, it's After Hours after all. I like all the Lithuanian, Latvian and Russian-Latvian people I've met here, they're the nicest people ever. See, when you share borders there's always quite a lot of shared history (eg Polish-Lithuanian Union) and history is always taught from a certain, homeland-centered point of view. Did we embrace socialism? It was given to us as a present by our WWII allies - The UK and the US and it immediately resulted in trainloads of our best and brightest brought to places like Katyn where, in recognition for their wartime heroism, they were shot and buried in ditches. There was a constant underground opposition operating during communism, and finally once the price of canteen lunches went to high, a chubby guy with a mustache climbed over the wall of a shipyard and inspired the fall of communism* Most Lithuanians and Latvians my age (40s) can still speak Russian, Polish people not so much (well, we think we can but as it turns out we just put on a funny accent and speak Polish), because they were part of a country where Russian was the spoken language. We had compulsory Russian in schools alongside western languages.

* I may be simplifying a bit here

I was in my early teens when Walesa was doing his thing and i was always amazed that he never had an unfortunate accident.

18-09-2020 9:59am

Richard Hillman wrote: »

It's a bit like us and Norway/Switzerland. The wages in those countries are great, big money. But you're only getting coins back from your €10 after you buy a coffee.

I was in Ukraine recently and was getting an espresso for something like 30c. You'll be getting it for €3 here. I went to a Dynamo Kiev game and got a ticket for about €1.50,its about €15 for LOI game here. But likewise wages are only about a 10th of what they are here. T

The only difference really is that your branded goods, clothes, phones, McDonald's will still cost pretty much the same around the world.

There last year. Your prices are grossly under.

It's cheaper but not my that limit at all in kyiv. Even in chernobyl the coffee wasn't 30c

jmayo · 18-09-2020 11:45am

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

There last year. Your prices are grossly under.

It's cheaper but not my that limit at all in kyiv. Even in chernobyl the coffee wasn't 30c

Not sure I would want to drink a coffee anywhere near Chernobyl, no matter how much it cost :eek:

18-09-2020 12:07pm

jmayo wrote: »

Not sure I would want to drink a coffee anywhere near Chernobyl, no matter how much it cost :eek:

Food was actually pretty good. The 'produced locally' is all part of the experience.

As is having 5 large grumpy vodka swimming Ukrainian men staring at you while you eat it

neutral guy · 18-09-2020 12:45pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Its about 500 per month. The average salary in big cities is about 900 per month which is less than the min wage of 1400 per month in Ireland.

Meaning the average wage there is 500 less per month than the min wage here.

I am not talking about minimum salary which is a ctualy is 560 before tax,I talking about salary in low qualified sector which is about 750 home.The minimum salary in Lithuania will be 680 before tax next year.The Ireland was great for work when minimum salary in Lithuania was 170 euros and rents in Ireland was 600.But not now when minimum salary are 560 and rents in Ireland are from 900 per room.

I can easy get carpenter job in Lithuania for 1300 home with 300 rent when in Ireland I will get 2000 home with 1200 rent.

Fritzbox · 18-09-2020 12:50pm

neutral guy wrote: »

For example average salary in Lithuania at factory for unqvalified is 750 home per month and growing
Minimum wage in Ireland is 350 per week or 1400 per month

Why are you comparing the minimum wage of one country with the average wage of another?

neutral guy · 18-09-2020 12:54pm

Because mostly emigrants from Eastern Europe was working low paid jobs due with work force price in Ireland or employers rasism which paid to irish more than to imigrants.In 2005 I was getting 9.50 per hour when irish man was getting 17 for same job in same company.Not anymore because many eastern european does not work in Ireland because its ot worth it.Poland for example will be on same level with Germany in next 5/10 years.

Fritzbox · 18-09-2020 1:01pm

neutral guy wrote: »

Because mostly emigrants from Eastern Europe was working low paid jobs due with work force price in Ireland or employers rasism which paid to irish more than to imigrants.In 2005 I was getting 9.50 per hour when irish man was getting 17 for same job in same company.Not anymore because many eastern european does not work in Ireland because its ot worth it.Poland for example will be on same level with Germany in next 5/10 years.

Why would any employer, not just in Ireland, pay one worker twice the amount the were paying another to do the same job, doesn't much financial sense?

In any case I'd expect many many Eastern European immigrants to Ireland would be aiming higher than a minimum wage job, presuming they have good qualifications.

18-09-2020 1:11pm

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I can't relate to this at all. If I ever make progress on ticking off the EU capitals, I'm leaving off Warsaw.

FWIW I found people in Warsaw nicer than in Krakow. I was only in Krakow for a day trip and within the space of a couple of hours had two bad experiences with a power-tripping dickhead carpark attendant and a bothersome street entertainer, whereas I was in Warsaw for a few days and never had any complaints; I even got a free dessert in a restaurant (for agreeing to move tables to make way for a group that had arrived, which didn't bother me in the slightest but waitress was still apologetic over it).

breezy1985 · 18-09-2020 1:11pm

neutral guy wrote: »

Because mostly emigrants from Eastern Europe was working low paid jobs due with work force price in Ireland or employers rasism which paid to irish more than to imigrants.In 2005 I was getting 9.50 per hour when irish man was getting 17 for same job in same company.Not anymore because many eastern european does not work in Ireland because its ot worth it.Poland for example will be on same level with Germany in next 5/10 years.

In pubs we were all on minimum Irish or foreign. You should always assume your bartender is on minimum wage and it's something to keepin mind when you are giving him hassle about after hours or whatever

topper75 · 18-09-2020 2:32pm

They are awful mean Cyaaavan bastards with their vowels. No wonder they don't want to join the 'EU'.

I mean like Brno. Lodz. Lviv. FFS

They should barter with the Finns, who have the other embarrassment.

breezy1985 · 18-09-2020 2:43pm

topper75 wrote: »

They are awful mean Cyaaavan bastards with their vowels. No wonder they don't want to join the 'EU'.

I mean like Brno. Lodz. Lviv. FFS

They should barter with the Finns, who have the other embarrassment.

Imagine their shock at vowely Irish towns like Oola

topper75 · 18-09-2020 3:15pm

breezy1985 wrote: »

Imagine their shock at vowely Irish towns like Oola

The luxury. Feels so indulgent.

zom · 18-09-2020 3:55pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

moscow or warsaw are no less part of russia or poland than anywhere else.

Strongly disagree with that assumption especially about Moscow.

18-09-2020 5:03pm

topper75 wrote: »

They should barter with the Finns, who have the other embarrassment.

Which other embarrassment?

neutral guy · 18-09-2020 5:06pm

I am from Eastern Europe
For
Ireland is great country to see,many great places,fantastic architecture and authentic churches
Nice cheese ( love it )
Pretty friendly Garda and most people
Ireland was lucky that Soviets did not destroy churches and germans did not bomb all country to the ground as it happened in Eastern Europe.

Against :
Same food everywhere
I missed couple buses on bus stop before people told me lift the hand if I want get buss stopped.
I could not get food in a pub

Eastern Europe
For
Plenty things to see but many are not authentic due the WW2
Great nature
Nice beer and different food in every single place were alcohol can be purchased
Good commuter system

Against

Police will use every single chance to rip you off
Locals are not really friendly
Food are not cheap as years ago in countries which join the euro

topper75 · 18-09-2020 5:16pm

bubblypop wrote: »

Which other embarrassment?

A luunaatiic aamoouunt of vooweels.

Just read anything Finnish.

neutral guy · 18-09-2020 5:52pm

topper75 wrote: »

A luunaatiic aamoouunt of vooweels.

Just read anything Finnish.

Same as Hungarian ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finno-Ugric_languages

18-09-2020 7:40pm

topper75 wrote: »

A luunaatiic aamoouunt of vooweels.

Just read anything Finnish.

Ah I know Finnish!
Not so much vowels but they do love sticking words together!

Nigel Fairservice · 18-09-2020 8:17pm

jmayo wrote: »

Not sure I would want to drink a coffee anywhere near Chernobyl, no matter how much it cost :eek:

I've eaten at Canteen 19 in Chernobyl. The food was terrible, quite possibly the worst I've ever had.The borscht starter was edible but the main course I got there, some kind of chicken, was inedible. The rest of the food I had in the Ukraine was great.

breezy1985 · 18-09-2020 10:02pm

neutral guy wrote: »

I am from Eastern Europe
For
Ireland is great country to see,many great places,fantastic architecture and authentic churches
Nice cheese ( love it )
Pretty friendly Garda and most people
Ireland was lucky that Soviets did not destroy churches and germans did not bomb all country to the ground as it happened in Eastern Europe.

Against :
Same food everywhere
I missed couple buses on bus stop before people told me lift the hand if I want get buss stopped.
I could not get food in a pub

Eastern Europe
For
Plenty things to see but many are not authentic due the WW2
Great nature
Nice beer and different food in every single place were alcohol can be purchased
Good commuter system

Against

Police will use every single chance to rip you off
Locals are not really friendly
Food are not cheap as years ago in countries which join the euro

Glad you noticed Ireland has great cheese as I think it is something we are better at than many realise. Our churches are beautiful to look at but I wish someone had burned them all down as the people inside are evil.
I like that many of our pubs dont sell food but agree it is sad that the food is the same everywhere as we have beautiful seaside which should sell seafood and countryside that should sell beautiful veg and meat but its just chicken nuggets and burgers everywhere. Its starting to change though as people rediscover local produce and old recipes

zom · 28-09-2020 11:35pm

breezy1985 wrote: »

Our churches are beautiful to look at but I wish someone had burned them all down as the people inside are evil.

If burning churches could get evil people off the planet it would be burned everywhere centuries ago...

da_miser · 29-09-2020 2:55am

Big difference is the women.
All the women in Ireland think they are smoking hot 10's, and have the attitude to go with it, even though they are 5 foot and 13 stone.
The eastern European women are generally better looking and easier to talk to.
That's the truth, all the men here will agree.

ILoveYourVibes · 29-09-2020 3:03am

da_miser wrote: »

Big difference is the women.
All the women in Ireland think they are smoking hot 10's, and have the attitude to go with it, even though they are 5 foot and 13 stone.
The eastern European women are generally better looking and easier to talk to.
That's the truth, all the men here will agree.

True.

They are more old fashioned though. Gender roles are very defined.

I was even told there were topics as a woman i should not talk about. Like politics. Fair enough ..when in Rome.

Generally very educated. And beautiful as you say. And 'nice'.

Good hearts.

The men always pay. But its more than that. Gender roles are very set. Behavior is set accordingly. For instance there countries labor laws there are certain jobs women shouldn't do. Partic jobs considered physical or dangerous.

https://www.pri.org/stories/2009-06-12/jobs-women-cant-do-russia

Women can't drive a train for example. This seems to me at least ...that it went down as far as meaning women should not talk about those things either.

Russia's constitution guarantees men and women equal employment but the country's labor code states women shouldn't do hard, physical labor or jobs that entail harmful or dangerous conditions. And the code lists 460 jobs off limits to women. Jobs like chimney sweep, fire fighter, blacksmith, steel worker, and metro train operator.

Russian teacher Irina Vasanova agrees. She says many Russian women don't care about the restrictions because they don't want to do what are considered manly jobs [through translator]: "Russian women often want to appear weak. They like that men think that they are weak. Russian women don't think about discrimination."

Although a lot of Eastern European women here are westernized and may have adapted.

I was being treated by a russian doctor once ..i told him i was a bit down ..he said i should try and have a baby. That was the cure.

He was quite young and working here.

breezy1985 · 29-09-2020 9:33am

da_miser wrote: »

Big difference is the women.
All the women in Ireland think they are smoking hot 10's, and have the attitude to go with it, even though they are 5 foot and 13 stone.
The eastern European women are generally better looking and easier to talk to.
That's the truth, all the men here will agree.

No all men here won't agree with you. Maybe it's not Irish women but the fact that you approach them with this attitude

ranto_boy · 29-09-2020 9:37am

From the people I've met and the brief travelling I've done there (Poland, Bulgaria and Czech) I love the place! Will look at some more visits next year, haven't decided where yet.

29-09-2020 9:38am

breezy1985 wrote: »

No all men here won't agree with you. Maybe it's not Irish women but the fact that you approach them with this attitude

But many men would agree. It's not all Irish women, and thankfully, it's changing... but traditionally Irish women were placed (or placed themselves) on a pedestal. Women in Eastern Europe, or the Continent, tend to be more open to being approached by average looking guys, although a large part of that is a greater population, and there's still those who perceive themselves as being too good. But yeah, I'd partially agree with the other post. An awful amount of Irish women were/are pure nasty about dating.. it's not just about the way men behave.

How bad is Eastern Europe etc

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