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Are working with or against you spouse/OH

24

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭ Caroline Jealous Tart


    Amazing though is it not that when asked _directly_ for some of that evidence all you can do is wave your hands and assure me there is loads of it. Yet some how - you got nuttin. Quelle Suprise.

    So you got nothing but assumptions. Meanwhile in the real world there are many relationships not conforming to your imaginary template that are working out perfectly fine - as are their children and their finances and their household lives.

    Navel gazing too deeply makes one miss the real world around you. Look up and out from time to time.

    I'm sorry but that dead horse you're trying to flog has been done so many times I just can't be bothered. If you want to find "peer reviewed" and "cite" research you can do it yourself, it won't take you very long. This topic has been discussed so many times ad nausea it's just boring at this stage. If you want to cite people you know who are in non traditional or alternative families where everyone lives happily ever after go ahead but there is a huge amount of data on this compiled over the last 50 years and the conclusions are crystal clear.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,183 ✭✭✭✭Leg End Reject


    Ad nausea!

    :D:D


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,371 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    I'm sorry but that dead horse you're trying to flog has been done so many times I just can't be bothered. If you want to find "peer reviewed" and "cite" research you can do it yourself, it won't take you very long. This topic has been discussed so many times ad nausea it's just boring at this stage. If you want to cite people you know who are in non traditional or alternative families where everyone lives happily ever after go ahead but there is a huge amount of data on this compiled over the last 50 years and the conclusions are crystal clear.

    Sure if there's mountains of data, throw up a few links for everyone to read. Can't be that hard.

    You imagine that the ideal family is one mother and one father. Lots of kids come from this set up and are well adjusted and happy. There are also plenty of kids who had miserable upbringings in this set up. You don't have to go too far to find kids who had a shit childhood despite having a mother and father. Talk to any teacher and they'll be able to tell you about a child with a crap family setup.

    Alternative families exist and it's perfectly possibly for children to also have a well adjusted and happy childhood with this arrangement. Both situations can exist at the same time and both work.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    ... But rather than couples working together, they seem to be some type of competition or dance where "I picked up the kids for to two days so now you have to pick them up for two days" or one spouse goes out with their friends and it goes in the book to be used as credit for the other spouse to go out...

    People are different and therefore different things work for different people. What works for you might not work for someone else.

    Other than that I'm not sure what answer you are looking for.




  • We both earn our salaries, paid into our own accounts and spend/save as we each want with bills Split 50/50. We have a joint account but would never even enter our heads to get our salaries paid into it as my salary is mine and hers is hers. We used to lodge some money into the joint account each money to cover bills and shopping etc but now with Revolut it’s almost redundant. If I pay for the shopping I send a split bill request to my wife and she sends me on the money and vice versa.

    Outside of shared expanses we look after our own finances individually, have our own savings accounts, own investments etc. I’d hate this all money goes into one joint account way some couples do things, just wouldn’t be for us.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭ Caroline Jealous Tart


    Sure if there's mountains of data, throw up a few links for everyone to read. Can't be that hard.

    You imagine that the ideal family is one mother and one father. Lots of kids come from this set up and are well adjusted and happy. There are also plenty of kids who had miserable upbringings in this set up. You don't have to go too far to find kids who had a shit childhood despite having a mother and father. Talk to any teacher and they'll be able to tell you about a child with a crap family setup.

    Alternative families exist and it's perfectly possibly for children to also have a well adjusted and happy childhood with this arrangement. Both situations can exist at the same time and both work.

    Possible but not as probable

    Again, someone comes out and tries to take a marginal case about a man and his dog and tries to use this as the broad argument.




  • I'm sorry but that dead horse you're trying to flog has been done so many times I just can't be bothered

    Cop out excuses because you simply have not got any of the evidence you pretend there is loads of really :) I called it - live with it.

    The old "I cant find evidence so I will try and make you find it yourself" trick has been tried and failed on boards so many times before. Doubt anyone falls for it. Your claim - your onus of proof. Generally boards etiquette is if you make the claim you back it up. No one will do it for you.

    The bully for you here is that the deck is stacked against you. I am already well versed in much of the literature on the subject of relationship types and alternatives. I have likely read closely a hell of a lot more if it than you. I know there has been little or no back up for claims that one construct is the "ideal". And by some measures others - like lesbian parents for example - have proven superior in some studies.

    The simple fact of the matter is - there are many relationships out there. With different combinations of personalities and genders and careers and hopes and dreams. And they run their relationships internally in many different ways - by many different criteria - and with varying divisions of labour and finances (you remember - that stuff the thread is actually about?) - Successfully.

    So the idea there is some "template" they should be working by in order to be a success - is your fantasy only. When someone says how their own relationship functions and you declare from your pedestal built of assumption that "But relationships and families don’t work that way." - again this is your fantasy only - and the only thing "crystal clear" is that you have no evidence to the contrary to offer. "can't be bothered" is a phrase that is exactly two words too long really.
    Again, someone comes out and tries to take a marginal case about a man and his dog and tries to use this as the broad argument.

    Actually from what I can see on the thread so far you are the only one extrapolating a broad argument out of a single idea. You appear to have one concept of one single way relationships tend to function. And they often do function that way. So there is nothing wrong with that per se.

    But from this you think you have access to some "template" of the right way - or ideal way - or best way - or perhaps even the _only_ way relationships can or should function. And that is where you stray from perfectly coherent into perfectly nonsensical.

    This is unfortunately a common error in the human species. They find one thing that works well for them - a relationship method - a parenting methodology - a fitness regime - a new diet - or whatever - and they act like they have hit on "the answer" to everything - like their way is the best way and everyone else could do as well as them if only they would do it that way too.

    Such people tend to disappear so far into their own navel they simply forget to reality check with the world against them - and the like you simply miss the fact that there are innumerable counter examples of people doing it entirely different - but just as well and successfully. And when called on it - they quickly realise they can not back up their concepts - so they retreat behind "I cant be bothered" or "Go find the evidence yourself" types of cop outs because they know they themselves simply got nuttin.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,166 ✭✭✭Still waters


    - nuttin.
    nuttin.

    Spelling nuttin like this is really cool


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,627 ✭✭✭Wildly Boaring


    We both earn our salaries, paid into our own accounts and spend/save as we each want with bills Split 50/50. We have a joint account but would never even enter our heads to get our salaries paid into it as my salary is mine and hers is hers. We used to lodge some money into the joint account each money to cover bills and shopping etc but now with Revolut it’s almost redundant. If I pay for the shopping I send a split bill request to my wife and she sends me on the money and vice versa.

    Outside of shared expanses we look after our own finances individually, have our own savings accounts, own investments etc. I’d hate this all money goes into one joint account way some couples do things, just wouldn’t be for us.

    Hold on.
    Do you not live at home with mammy and daddy? Pay no rent or groceries and mammy makes the dinner? The wife upstairs with you?


    https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2058038521/1


  • Registered Users Posts: 472 ✭✭MintyMagnum


    We both earn our salaries, paid into our own accounts and spend/save as we each want with bills Split 50/50. We have a joint account but would never even enter our heads to get our salaries paid into it as my salary is mine and hers is hers. We used to lodge some money into the joint account each money to cover bills and shopping etc but now with Revolut it’s almost redundant. If I pay for the shopping I send a split bill request to my wife and she sends me on the money and vice versa.

    Outside of shared expanses we look after our own finances individually, have our own savings accounts, own investments etc. I’d hate this all money goes into one joint account way some couples do things, just wouldn’t be for us.

    Have ye got kids?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭ Caroline Jealous Tart


    Cop out excuses because you simply have not got any of the evidence you pretend there is loads of really :) I called it - live with it.

    The old "I cant find evidence so I will try and make you find it yourself" trick has been tried and failed on boards so many times before. Doubt anyone falls for it. Your claim - your onus of proof. Generally boards etiquette is if you make the claim you back it up. No one will do it for you.

    The bully for you here is that the deck is stacked against you. I am already well versed in much of the literature on the subject of relationship types and alternatives. I have likely read closely a hell of a lot more if it than you. I know there has been little or no back up for claims that one construct is the "ideal". And by some measures others - like lesbian parents for example - have proven superior in some studies.

    The simple fact of the matter is - there are many relationships out there. With different combinations of personalities and genders and careers and hopes and dreams. And they run their relationships internally in many different ways - by many different criteria - and with varying divisions of labour and finances (you remember - that stuff the thread is actually about?) - Successfully.

    So the idea there is some "template" they should be working by in order to be a success - is your fantasy only. When someone says how their own relationship functions and you declare from your pedestal built of assumption that "But relationships and families don’t work that way." - again this is your fantasy only - and the only thing "crystal clear" is that you have no evidence to the contrary to offer. "can't be bothered" is a phrase that is exactly two words too long really.

    Actually from what I can see on the thread so far you are the only one extrapolating a broad argument out of a single idea. You appear to have one concept of one single way relationships tend to function. And they often do function that way. So there is nothing wrong with that per se.

    But from this you think you have access to some "template" of the right way - or ideal way - or best way - or perhaps even the _only_ way relationships can or should function. And that is where you stray from perfectly coherent into perfectly nonsensical.

    This is unfortunately a common error in the human species. They find one thing that works well for them - a relationship method - a parenting methodology - a fitness regime - a new diet - or whatever - and they act like they have hit on "the answer" to everything - like their way is the best way and everyone else could do as well as them if only they would do it that way too.

    Such people tend to disappear so far into their own navel they simply forget to reality check with the world against them - and the like you simply miss the fact that there are innumerable counter examples of people doing it entirely different - but just as well and successfully. And when called on it - they quickly realise they can not back up their concepts - so they retreat behind "I cant be bothered" or "Go find the evidence yourself" types of cop outs because they know they themselves simply got nuttin.

    TLDR

    I'm sorry but I got two sentences in and I couldn't go any further. I cannot get into the trenches with you on this as it will be too time consuming and most likely no matter what evidence you are presented probably you will try and explain it away with anecdotes and personal experience.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,371 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    TLDR

    I'm sorry but I got two sentences in and I couldn't go any further. I cannot get into the trenches with you on this as it will be too time consuming and most likely no matter what evidence you are presented probably you will try and explain it away with anecdotes and personal experience.



    You haven’t presented any evidence to back up your argument yet, despite claiming there’s loads.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    Possible but not as probable

    Again, someone comes out and tries to take a marginal case about a man and his dog and tries to use this as the broad argument.

    You're talking absolute nonsense. Raising my hand as a product of an unhappy childhood with a dad and mam. Head over to the personal issues forum, you'll find plenty of them there, too. And I personally know many who have experience of that as well in a wide range from emotionally unavailable parents to outright traumatic abuse and everything in between.

    There must be hundreds of thousands of books out there written by or for people who had troubling to traumatic childhood at the hands of their mam and dads and the hundreds of thousands more in therapy trying to heal from it. Your argument is dead in the water where this topic is concerned. Children need their basic needs met, by loving people in their life who are positive role models whoever that may be. They need safety. Security. Stability. Education. Emotional support. Etc. By saying they need one father and one mother as some ultimate ideal well it's not only false but that's also an insult to the many wonderful single parents out there doing an amazing job of it. Take several seats.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/02/06/children-raised-by-same-sex-couples-do-better-school-new-study-finds/

    From the article:

    "The researchers found that children raised by same-sex couples had higher test scores in elementary and secondary school and were about 7 percent more likely to graduate from high school than children raised by different-sex couples.

    The study by economists Deni Mazrekaj, Kristof de Witte and Sofie Cabus of Belgian university KU Leuven used government data tracking all children born in the Netherlands since 1995. The Netherlands was the first country in the world to legalize same-sex marriage in 2001 and has generally been one of the most supportive nations for same-sex couples.

    The data from the Netherlands echo a 2014 study from Australia that found children of same-sex couples are generally happier and healthier than their peers, possibly because gay and lesbian couples share parenting and home work more equally."


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭ Caroline Jealous Tart


    Stateofyou wrote: »
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/02/06/children-raised-by-same-sex-couples-do-better-school-new-study-finds/

    From the article:

    "The researchers found that children raised by same-sex couples had higher test scores in elementary and secondary school and were about 7 percent more likely to graduate from high school than children raised by different-sex couples.

    The study by economists Deni Mazrekaj, Kristof de Witte and Sofie Cabus of Belgian university KU Leuven used government data tracking all children born in the Netherlands since 1995. The Netherlands was the first country in the world to legalize same-sex marriage in 2001 and has generally been one of the most supportive nations for same-sex couples.

    The data from the Netherlands echo a 2014 study from Australia that found children of same-sex couples are generally happier and healthier than their peers, possibly because gay and lesbian couples share parenting and home work more equally."

    The woke post! OMG How did I miss it.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    The woke post! OMG How did I miss it.

    I'm guessing you probably miss many things you refuse to see. :pac:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭ Caroline Jealous Tart


    Stateofyou wrote: »
    I'm guessing you probably miss many things you refuse to see. :pac:

    I just rely on the data. Of which there is alot.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,825 ✭✭✭LirW


    Since someone was talking about separate investments in a marriage: wouldn't investment be classed as an asset and entitles the spouse to half of it if the marriage goes tits up?
    From my understanding prenuptial agreements aren't honoured if a nasty divorce goes to court.

    Genuine question, I don't know much about investing.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    I'm sorry but that dead horse you're trying to flog has been done so many times I just can't be bothered. If you want to find "peer reviewed" and "cite" research you can do it yourself, it won't take you very long. This topic has been discussed so many times ad nausea it's just boring at this stage. If you want to cite people you know who are in non traditional or alternative families where everyone lives happily ever after go ahead but there is a huge amount of data on this compiled over the last 50 years and the conclusions are crystal clear.
    The woke post! OMG How did I miss it.


    This is why people don't waste their time posting research on people like you.




  • Hold on.
    Do you not live at home with mammy and daddy? Pay no rent or groceries and mammy makes the dinner? The wife upstairs with you?


    https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2058038521/1

    Live at home about 70% of the time and the rest at my wife's house. I moved jobs to be closer to home as we will be building there very soon and it's too far to commute from where my wife currently lives.
    Have ye got kids?

    I was waiting for this but not really relevant. You will say, but sure one of you will be earning way less or what ever my answer would be that we both went though spells between jobs in the last few years and yes there may have been more contribution from the person working but there was not salary "pot" in a joint account. Each of us earned our own money which was our own and if some extra money was needed by the other person it was given as needed or if asked for.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭ Caroline Jealous Tart


    Stateofyou wrote: »
    This is why people don't waste their time posting research on people like you.

    You haven't posted any research only a link to the Washington Post which is behind a pay wall and based on the publication I have an good idea of the content of the article. The data on this is out, there is over 70 years worth of research on the topic. There is nothing to debate here.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    You haven't posted any research only a link to the Washington Post which is behind a pay wall and based on the publication I have an good idea of the content of the article. The data on this is out, there is over 70 years worth of research on the topic. There is nothing to debate here.

    It's a link to an article discussing the research that was done by economists Deni Mazrekaj, Kristof de Witte and Sofie Cabus of Belgian university KU Leuven as well as a 2014 study from Australia.

    If you want to know more about those studies, YOU go find more details. I'm not doing the work for you. I think I'll go with more recent data and research than whatever you're ascribing to from 70 years ago.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭ Caroline Jealous Tart


    Stateofyou wrote: »
    It's a link to an article discussing the research that was done by economists Deni Mazrekaj, Kristof de Witte and Sofie Cabus of Belgian university KU Leuven as well as a 2014 study from Australia.

    If you want to know more about those studies, YOU go find more details. I'm not doing the work for you. I think I'll go with more recent data and research than whatever you're ascribing to from 70 years ago.

    It's not from 70 years ago, it's 70 years of data.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    It's not from 70 years ago, it's 70 years of data.

    Starting 70 years ago. :rolleyes:


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    Is a direct link to the National Institute of Health more to your liking?

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4091994/

    "This article includes our assessment of the literature, focusing on those studies, reviews and books published within the past decade. We conclude that there is a clear consensus in the social science literature indicating that American children living within same-sex parent households fare just, as well as those children residing within different-sex parent households over a wide array of well-being measures: academic performance, cognitive development, social development, psychological health, early sexual activity, and substance abuse. Our assessment of the literature is based on credible and methodologically sound studies that compare well-being outcomes of children residing within same-sex and different-sex parent families."


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    How about to a link from Cornell University, citing 75 studies concluding that children of gay or lesbian parents fare no worse than other children, and the published findings. Oldest I can see-you'll love this-going back to 1980.

    https://whatweknow.inequality.cornell.edu/topics/lgbt-equality/what-does-the-scholarly-research-say-about-the-wellbeing-of-children-with-gay-or-lesbian-parents/


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭ Caroline Jealous Tart


    Stateofyou wrote: »
    How about to a link from Cornell University, citing 75 studies concluding that children of gay or lesbian parents fare no worse than other children, and the published findings. Oldest I can see-you'll love this-going back to 1980.

    https://whatweknow.inequality.cornell.edu/topics/lgbt-equality/what-does-the-scholarly-research-say-about-the-wellbeing-of-children-with-gay-or-lesbian-parents/

    Stop. You're just digging the hole deeper and trying to manufacture an argument and subsequent phoney outrage where you will appoint yourself the victim. Not interested.

    The research is done, the data is in and the results conclusive.


  • Registered Users Posts: 290 ✭✭lozenges


    Stop. You're just digging the hole deeper and trying to manufacture an argument and subsequent phoney outrage where you will appoint yourself the victim. Not interested.

    The research is done, the data is in and the results conclusive.

    Would you like to provide a link to the data seeing as it's so conclusive?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭ Caroline Jealous Tart


    lozenges wrote: »
    Would you like to provide a link to the data seeing as it's so conclusive?

    Will I make that "peer reviewed" aswell?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,070 ✭✭✭✭ Dominic Dry Sirloin


    Stateofyou wrote: »
    How about to a link from Cornell University, citing 75 studies concluding that children of gay or lesbian parents fare no worse than other children, and the published findings. Oldest I can see-you'll love this-going back to 1980.

    https://whatweknow.inequality.cornell.edu/topics/lgbt-equality/what-does-the-scholarly-research-say-about-the-wellbeing-of-children-with-gay-or-lesbian-parents/

    Dude there's literally no point. OP starts threads with the very obvious intention of getting into conflict. I won't say "getting into arguments" because as we can all see, they don't actually argue.

    Just a periodic need to type "you're wrong you're stupid this is the kind of stuff I hate" at people, and they've figured out that variations on "since I've moved back to Ireland I've noticed this stupid thing about Ireland. Also some vaguely gendered stuff. And if people aren't being responsive enough I'll throw in something more incendiary like gay marriage" pretty much always gets that need met in AH.

    Watch now, I'll be accused of some ad nausea ad homino attack or something :D


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