Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Learning Spanish

1246

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,125 ✭✭✭mistersifter


    There are more than two past tenses in Spanish. As is the case in English.

    Here's a basic explanation:

    1. You have the Preterite . This would be something like "I went to the shop" or "I spoke to my friend"... It gives a sense of an action being fully completed.

    2. Then there's the Imperfecto. This would be something like "I was going to the shop" or "I was speaking to my friend". This is a descriptive tense. It gives a sense that something was happening (the 'was' and the "..ing" are key here). It is also used to describe characteristics of things in the past "when I was young, I was shy and I had blonde hair". It is also used to describe past habits "I used to go to the shop". Stuff that happened more than once in the past (gives a sense of something being ongoing over a period of time in the pasT)

    3. You then have the preterito perfecto e.g. "I have been to the shop" or "I have spoken to my friend". It gives us a sense that something happened in the past but its effect is still relevant in the present.

    4. You also have the pluscuamperfecto - e.g. "I had been to the shop"... Another good example of this tense would be "When I got to the station, the train HAD ALREADY LEFT". It is used to refer to incidents that happened in the past, BEFORE another past event.

    You then have past uses of the subjunctive mood, which would be perhaps the most challenging thing for an English speaker to learn.

    Regarding the point about learning from native speakers; a native speaker wouldn't necessarily be able to explain all of this to an English speaker in English. This is necessary to form a proper understanding of the language.

    Without denying the obvious benefits of learning from native speakers, I know Spanish learners who prefer to learn from non-native speakers who can understand things better from the non-native point of view and who have learned the language in the same way to them.

    What you need is someone who is as close as possible to being fully bilingual. Someone who can explain grammatical concepts very well in English (and relate them to the english language) while also having a deep understanding of Spanish and its many native contexts. Having a native Speaker with poor english is not very helpful when it comes to understanding grammar.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,125 ✭✭✭mistersifter


    i wouldn't have been able to explain ser vrs estar to you .

    Regarding Ser and Estar.

    Both of these verbs mean "to be".

    Ser generally feels more "permanent" e.g. soy aburrido (I am boring) or soy alto (I am tall). It's an inherent characteristic that is not liable to change.

    Estar feels more temporary e.g. estoy aburrido (I am bored) or estoy feliz (I am happy). These are moods which are liable to change fairly frequently.

    There are other situations when both are used and indeed there some exceptions to the above, but this serves as a useful basic explanation of both.

    The verb "haber" also means "to be" but it is more to confirm the existence of something e.g. "HAY un bar cerca de mi casa" (there is a pub near my house).


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Regarding Ser and Estar.

    Both of these verbs mean "to be".

    Ser generally feels more "permanent" e.g. soy aburrido (I am boring) or soy alto (I am tall). It's an inherent characteristic that is not liable to change.

    Estar feels more temporary e.g. estoy aburrido (I am bored) or estoy feliz (I am happy). These are moods which are liable to change fairly frequently.

    There are other situations when both are used and indeed there some exceptions to the above, but this serves as a useful basic explanation of both.

    .

    It really doesn't work that way. Your explanation would be incorrect.



    I mean you say ESTA MUERTO....he is dead.



    A lot of dialects WILL say soy feliz (inc in spain). Except for a certain phrase estoy feliz y contento. Which is always estoy.

    You also say soy pobre. And you say soy culpable. But to say soy aburrido would just mean i am borring. And estoy aburrido i am bored.

    You say...Soy consciente de (i am aware of ) ...estoy consciente (I am awake)

    Also you say antes era morena pero ahora soy rubia.

    La puerta fue abierta ..the door was opened ....not permament but you use ser.



    When speaking of location of things ..you estar ..but when speaking of location of EVENTS use ser.

    And i lived in spain for two years as a kid. Went to a spanish speaking school etc.

    Also andar ..(to walk) is sometimes used instead of estar.

    Some impermanent adjectives just trigger ser ...


    The relationship between the two verbs has been evolving over hundreds of years ...therefore its highly idiomatic.

    My advice is don't worry about it now. But be aware of it.

    I actually don't think its something you can learn by rote ..i think you have to listen to people speaking ...and read a lot.

    Don't get me started on the whole era/ fue ..thing.

    WHAT I MEANT WAS ...when i was a kid living in spain....I knew HOW to use ser and estar ...but i couldn't have EXPLAINED why they were used this way. There was no rule. And there IS no hard rule. Its very idiomatic and complex.

    Going back to spanish ....as an adult ...helped me be able to explain the WHY.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    There are more than two past tenses in Spanish.

    :rolleyes: Its why i said
    not counting the compound tenses
    and then listed some of them
    I KNOW ...that is why i put them in my post. The compound tenses

    But they are all the same you just learn the past part for ser its sido


    He sido habia sido hubé sido haya sido hubiera sido

    Either you didn't read my post or you don't know the compound tenses in spanish and so didn't recognize them.
    4. You also have the pluscuamperfecto - e.g. "I had been to the shop"... Another good example of this tense would be "When I got to the station, the train HAD ALREADY LEFT". It is used to refer to incidents that happened in the past, BEFORE another past event.

    I literally put them above your post in MY post if you read it.
    here are 18 tenses in spanish inc the compound ones..and you need to get to grips with all of them ...Because unlike english the spanish use the subjunctive ALL the time. Estuviera estuvieras .even estuviese ..etc Hubiera estado etc.


    Yep that is WHY i put them in my post. I am well aware of them. I went to school IN spain in spanish as a kid.

    Spanish has 2 versions of the pluascuamperfecto

    Hubiera and hubiese

    Then there is hubiere ....but you only see that in legal texts. Its the future pluscuamperfecto its rarely used tho....but the other two hubiera ..hubiese and estuviera /estuviese (imperf de subjunct) etc are used all the time.



    And yes I ALSO mention the subjunctive in my previous post.

    And we do have it in english ....we just don't use it much. Or some people don't.

    I have no issues learning the subjunctive personally. 'Ojala fuera viernes.' 'I wish it were friday.'


    Learn from a native spanish speaker ..who has had to learn a second language of their own. A non native speaker can't do it.
    Having a native Speaker with poor english is not very helpful when it comes to understanding grammar.

    ALL your classes should be 100% in spanish.

    Understanding grammar is not going to help you use it. Trust me. I used it years before i understood it.

    Anyway no teacher can teach you a language ..you have to put in the work yourself.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    ALSO worth noting in spain they will say ...Ha costado instead of cuesta a lot

    In that they use the perfecto de indictivo / preterito perfecto whichever you want to call it. more than the preterite ...whereas in a lot of latin america its the opposite.

    I've no idea why ...nor why its a thing. Maybe if i keep studying i will find out :)


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 6,400 ✭✭✭EagererBeaver



    WHAT I MEANT WAS ...when i was a kid living in spain....I knew HOW to use ser and estar ...but i couldn't have EXPLAINED why they were used this way. There was no rule. And there IS no hard rule. Its very idiomatic and complex.

    Why don't you get your non Spanish, non Spanish speaking ma to sign up to the Board and explain it all to us? I mean, her word was gospel on other topics in this discussion you don't have a clue about, so why not this?


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Why don't you get your non Spanish, non Spanish speaking ma to sign up to the Board and explain it all to us? I mean, her errors was gospel on other topics in this discussion you don't have a clue about, so why not this?

    I spent two years living in spain. And I am correct. I spent several years learning the language.

    You don't say es muerto ..you say esta muerto. And you don't get more permanent than dead.





    You do not say la fiesta estuvo el viernes you say la fiesta fue el viernes. You dont say fui un estudiante you say era un estudiante.
    And soy feliz is actually very common.










    7661023.jpg


    I await your apology beaver .

    I worked hard ..to get where i am in spanish ..and i am not going to be told by someone like you that i don't know what i am talking about ...when clearly i do. And I am certainly not going to be spoken to LIKE THAT.

    Sorry for being able to speak another language.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,819 ✭✭✭✭peasant


    MOD NOTE

    No habla Espanol myself, so I can't speak to who's right or wrong or whatever ...but let's keep it on topic and not get personal, right?

    Be nice to each other, mmkay ...


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    I am happy to be polite. Its nicer.

    I am right. :)

    You don't say el es muerto. You say el esta muerto.

    Spanish has two past simple tenses...and the normal compound ones we have....just as i said in my original post.

    Ojala estuvieras conmigo ahora. I wish you were with me now. Subjunctive . Hubieras podido conmigo aqui. You could have been with me here. Pluscuamperfecto

    había estado tres hombres aqui there had been three men here.

    You say la puerta fue abierto ...the door was opened ..even tho its not a permanent state..you use ser..



    Cuando ella era joven! When she was young ....but she is not young now. But you still use ser.

    You say soy consciente de ..i am aware of.. You also say Soy decidida...I am resolute.

    Also peasant ...

    No HABLO espanol ...:D

    Sorry i had too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,125 ✭✭✭mistersifter


    Either you didn't read my post or you don't know the compound tenses in spanish and so didn't recognize them

    I haven't read all of your posts so apologies if I have missed something you said. I was responding to your comments that you struggle to explain the difference between ser and estar and a couple of other things.
    I went to school IN spain in spanish as a kid.

    yet you cannot explain the difference between ser and estar. And many native speakers cannot explain such differences either. So, if anything, this reinforces my own point that native speakers are not inevitably better teachers than non native speakers.
    He sido habia sido hubé sido haya sido hubiera sido

    Hubé is not a Spanish word.
    Spanish has 2 versions of the pluascuamperfecto...Hubiera and hubiese

    Again, this is incorrect. Hubiese/hubiera are the imperfect subjunctive i.e. imperfecto de subjuntivo. In other words, they are past tense subjunctives. They are not the pluscuamperfecto.
    ALL your classes should be 100% in spanish.

    I disagree. There's a counterproductive pretentiousness around this and it inhibits teaching. Many students benefit greatly from English explanations of the tenses, as I proved in my original posts which I think were quite clear explanations of the nature of some tenses.
    Understanding grammar is not going to help you use it. Trust me. I used it years before i understood it

    I don't need to trust you. I have studied the language to a very high level and spent many years living in Spanish speaking countries including Argentina. I lived and worked in many types of communities, poor and rich, immigrant and native. I have a solid understanding of Spanish language in all its forms including slang, formal usage etc. It is the first language spoken in my home.
    Anyway no teacher can teach you a language ..you have to put in the work yourself.

    I agree with this. It's like anything, if you enjoy it and pursue it and put the time in, you will learn. There are not really any shortcuts. It's not easy to become fluent in Spanish, despite what some people would have you believe.
    Learn from a native spanish speaker ..who has had to learn a second language of their own. A non native speaker can't do it.

    Not true that non-natives cannot teach Spanish. Some of the best Spanish teachers we have in this country are Irish. I know some of them personally. Also, I am Irish and I can teach the language a lot better than most of the native speakers I know. There are many things to consider when choosing a teacher. I say this without denying the need to engage with natives or the obvious advantages that natives have when they are good teachers.

    It is indeed very useful at times to use English as a comparative means of learning. Funnily enough, only last week I spoke to someone who is learning Spanish and told me that they NEED grammatical concepts to be explained in English. Students will have different learning styles also, so this should be taken into account.

    In my early days studying the language, I had some native teachers who had zero English and this often proved more of an obstacle than anything else.

    Translation is part of language learning. For example, if you are studying Spanish to English translation, you will be best off with a native English speaker who speaks Spanish. If you are studying English- Spanish, the opposite is true.
    There are many things to take into account when looking for a teacher.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 3,125 ✭✭✭mistersifter


    I haven't watched the videos you posted but I assume that they are uses of 'ser' to describe temporary humours judging by the titles 'soy feliz'.

    It's quite odd that you would post them because in no way do they contradict my earlier point.

    I specifically stated that my explanation of 'ser' and 'estar' was an overview and that there were of course exceptions. There are exceptions to everything in Spanish. Your use of "estar muerto" is a good example of this.

    Before you go looking for more songs, you should keep in mind that lyrics are not good sources of grammatical correctness. Songs are great for listening practice and learning informal speech, though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    yet you cannot explain the difference between ser and estar. And many native speakers cannot explain such differences either. So, if anything, this reinforces my own point that native speakers are not inevitably better teachers than non native speakers.
    There is no short rule book to this. Its VERY idiomatic. There it is explained. You have to get to know it by becoming familiar.



    Hube sido is a spanish word the accent should not have been there.

    Hubiera sido etc is the pluscuamperfect.

    Its also the imperfect subjunct of haber.

    Therefore hubiera/hubiese is part of EVERY pluscuamperfect tense. You just add the past parf ..estado etc.





    Its how all the compound tenses are formed. Obviously.

    The imperfect subjunt of estar is estuviera or estuviese ....the pluscuamperfect is hubiera estado or hubiese estado ....hubiera and hubiese form part of EVERY pluscuamperfect tense.


    I got soy feliz from a Routledge grammar reference book actually.

    Plus hearing it from actual speakers for years


    and here it is on a kids spanish book

    https://www.amazon.com/Soy-Feliz-Spanish-Alberto-Agraso/dp/0987876244

    a diff kids spanish book

    91rmjNAY1dL.jpg

    Also, I am Irish and I can teach the language a lot better than most of the native speakers I know.
    I am not being funny but i have better spanish than you ..and i can't teach it. i woudn't dare.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    la puerta fue abierto ?? what is wrong with that?


    era joven?

    both ser ....both impermanent states etc. And these are not exceptions.

    Also you use ser for location events that are definitely NOT permanent.. donde es la feista a party is a temp thing

    You wouldn't say donde esta la fiesta ...you say donde esta el sacacorchos para abrir la botella


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,125 ✭✭✭mistersifter


    There is no short rule book to this. Its VERY idiomatic.

    Hube sido is a spanish word the accent should not have been there

    Correct. You put the accent there because often there is an accent on the first person preterito indefinido form.

    I think you said "hube sido" in your post. Can you give me an example of that used in a sentence?
    Hubiera sido etc is the pluscuamperfect.

    These would either be called the pluscuamperfecto de subjuntivo or imperfecto de subjuntivo. The inclusion of the word "subjuntivo" is important here because when "pluscuamperfecto" is on its own it would normally refer to the indicative form of the pluscuamperfecto i.e. Había, habías, había, etc.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,125 ✭✭✭mistersifter


    la puerta fue abierto ?? what is wrong with that?

    Firstly, puerta is feminine so you should say abierta. Not abierto.
    Secondly, it would be la puerta está abierta.

    'Fue' comes from ser. You would absolutely not say la puerta es (present form of ser) abierta. That's incorrect.
    era joven?

    This is correct. But being young isnt something that changes from one moment to the next.
    ...Also you use ser for location events

    Correct. The permanent/temporary thing is not bullet proof. As I stated in my original post.

    But to elaborate on this point, 'Estar' is usually used to refer to location. There is an exception for events . Again, the temp/permanent thing isn't bulletproof.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Correct. You put the accent there because often there is an accent on the first person preterito indefinido form.

    I think you said "hube sido" in your post. Can you give me an example of that used in a sentence?



    These would either be called the pluscuamperfecto de subjuntivo or imperfecto de subjuntivo. The inclusion of the word "subjuntivo" is important here because when "pluscuamperfecto" is on its own it would normally refer to the indicative form of the pluscuamperfecto i.e. Había, habías, había, etc.


    hube sido una medica.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,125 ✭✭✭mistersifter


    hube sido una medica.

    Can you translate this?

    I believe this is wrong unless we're dealing with some odd regional thing.

    Certainly would be best not using the article 'una' here. It sounds very odd.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Firstly, puerta is feminine so you should say abierta. Not abierto.
    Secondly, it would be la puerta está abierta.

    'Fue' comes from ser. You would absolutely not say la puerta es (present form of ser) abierta. That's incorrect.



    This is correct. But being young isnt something that changes from one moment to the next.



    Correct. The permanent/temporary thing is not bullet proof. As I stated in my original post.

    But to elaborate on this point, 'Estar' is usually used to refer to location. There is an exception for events . Again, the temp/permanent thing isn't bulletproof.


    La puerta fue abierta .
    the door was opened.

    Is correct.

    .or
    la puerta se abrio also correct.
    La puerta estuvó abierta ..not correct.

    La puerta esta abierta correct...but present tense


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Can you translate this?

    I believe this is wrong unless we're dealing with some odd regional thing.

    Certainly would be best not using the article 'una' here. It sounds very odd.
    I had been a doctor. Of course i can translate it ..its like ..baby stuff?

    You can leave out the article for professions ...

    Soy capitan ...you can also add them Soy capitan is from la bamba :)

    both are fine.

    https://context.reverso.net/translation/spanish-english/soy+una+mesera


    no soy una mesera de todas formas

    Soy una mesera, no un mozo.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,125 ✭✭✭mistersifter


    La puerta fue abierta .
    the door was opened.

    Is correct.

    .or
    la puerta se abrio also correct.
    La puerta estuvó abierta ..not correct.

    La puerta esta abierta correct...but present tense

    You make many minor errors. You said la puerta fue abierto first. that's very basic. You are also wrong about using the verb 'ser' for this.

    La puerta se abrió would have an accent. You forgot to include the accent here. The way you used this expression with "se" would imply that the door opened itself, as you are using the reflexive pronoun. But maybe the door did open by itself, so I wouldnt argue about the reflexive nature of this.

    Your level of Spanish is dubious overall.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    You make many minor errors. You said la puerta fue abierto first. that's very basic. You are also wrong about using the verb 'ser' for this.

    La puerta se abrió would have an accent. You forgot to include the accent here. The way you used this expression with "se" would imply that the door opened itself, as you are using the reflexive pronoun. But maybe the door did open by itself, so I wouldnt argue about the reflexive nature of this.

    Your level of Spanish is dubious overall.


    I never write with accents. :P

    Never have.

    LA PUERTA FUE ABIERTA the door was opened


    Welcome to the dynamic passive. :)

    ITS ABSOLUTELY CORRECT

    I will take a pic of it in the grammar book for you.

    La puerta estaba abierta would be the door was open. La puerta esta abierta is the door is open.

    Your claim to be a teacher ...is very dubious


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,125 ✭✭✭mistersifter


    You can leave out the article for professions ...
    that's what I said to you. It sounds odd to include the article the way you did.
    Soy capitan ...you can also add them Soy capitan is from la bamba :)

    both are fine.

    Exactly. Yo no soy marinero. It's not "un marinero" .. If you use the article it sounds very weird and like something a non-native would say when learning. Many native english speakers do this.

    I had been a doctor. Of course i can translate it ..its like ..baby stuff?

    Incorrect. "Había sido medico" is the translation for "I had been a doctor".

    To give more context to that sentence, we could say something like.

    "Antes de llegar a irlanda, ya había trabajado como medico' (before arriving in Ireland, I had worked as a doctor).

    Había is what you should use here. Your use of hube is incorrect.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Por que no escribimos en espanol ???

    Para practicar?

    El verbo 'ser' se usa para hacer el pasivo dinamico 'la puerta fue abierta 'pero un accion usa para hacer el 'pasiva resultativa 'la puerta estaba abierta'


    y si cometo errores


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,125 ✭✭✭mistersifter


    no soy una mesera de todas formas

    Soy una mesera, no un mozo.

    where did you get this quote ? I like it :) Mozo is very Argentinian.

    I'm not sure if it is officially "wrong" to use the article. It certainly is not the done thing with natives. The use of the article here makes it sound like there's an adjective missing.

    e.g. "soy una buena mesera" (I am a good waitress) would sound fine.

    With the use of article and the lack of adjective there is a subtle sense of making the person an 'object' instead of a professional.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,125 ✭✭✭mistersifter


    Por que no escribimos en espanol ???

    Para practicar?

    El verbo 'ser' se usa para hacer el pasivo dinamico 'la puerta fue abierta 'pero un accion usa para hacer el 'pasiva resultativa 'la puerta estaba abierta'


    y si cometo errores

    it's una acción, not un accion.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    that's what I said to you. It sounds odd to include the article the way you did.



    Exactly. Yo no soy marinero. It's not "un marinero" .. If you use the article it sounds very weird and like something a non-native would say when learning. Many native english speakers do this.




    Incorrect. "Había sido medico" is the translation for "I had been a doctor".

    To give more context to that sentence, we could say something like.

    "Antes de llegar a irlanda, ya había trabajado como medico' (before arriving in Ireland, I had worked as a doctor).

    Había is what you should use here. Your use of hube is incorrect.

    Equivocado.
    Por que 'habia' no es que significo.
    No hubo un antes.

    Fue un accion completa.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,125 ✭✭✭mistersifter


    I believe we're not allowed to have Spanish conversations on the forum but feel free to do it and I'll keep pointing out your mistakes.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,125 ✭✭✭mistersifter


    Equivocado.
    Por que 'habia' no es que significo.
    No hubo un antes.

    Fue un accion completa.

    What? This makes no sense. What are you trying to say? Let me know and I'll translate it for you.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    it's una acción, not un accion.
    es la misma palabra ;)Eres frances?


    No me importan accentos ....

    accion /accíon ....a quien le importa

    Una lengua es para comunicacion.


    No escribo perfectamente en ingles!


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 3,125 ✭✭✭mistersifter


    no es que significo

    You're embarrassing yourself now.

    "no es lo que quiero decir" might have been what you meant to say here.


Advertisement