Learning Spanish

EagererBeaver · 25-05-2020 11:29am

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Then why can i?

Because you're talking ****e and you can't, or alternatively, you've had exposure to the language over time and have been able to pick up a basis in it.

You say your Spanish isn't particularly good, and you don't live in Catalunya. My Spanish is pretty damn good and I live in Barcelona, and have done for the last five years. I have Spanish family who have lived in Barcelona. Which of is is more qualified to comment on this?!

ILoveYourVibes · 25-05-2020 11:31am

EagererBeaver wrote: »

Because you're talking ****e and you can't, or alternatively, you've had exposure to the language over time and have been able to pick up a basis in it.

You say your Spanish isn't particularly good, and you don't live in Catalunya. My Spanish is pretty damn good and I live in Barcelona, and have done for the last five years. I have Spanish family who have lived in Barcelona. Which of is is more qualified to comment on this?!

I honestly don't know if i believe you. Because what you are saying is so ....wrong to me. And yeah my spanish sucks. If you were telling the truth you WOULD be more qualified to say. But then i don't know why you are saying what you are saying.

It makes zero sense.

It wouldn't be the easiest conversation but they would get it.

Maybe we have a diff qualifier of what mutual comprehension is.

ILoveYourVibes · 25-05-2020 11:37am

Actually scrap that i just asked my mom did we ever visit catalonia (catalan) and Andalusia. (castillian)

We did. For months.

Scratches head.....shrug its all one language anyways :P

Sorry Eager Beaver.

I've been to a lot of diff places in spain. I even went to school there for a bit.

I've also lived for a while in Bilbao and madrid. Ages ago now though...years.

I still feel i am right though.

Maybe ask a spanish person how much catalan they can understand.

EagererBeaver · 25-05-2020 11:58am

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Actually scrap that i just asked my mom did we ever visit catalonia (catalan) and Andalusia. (castillian)

We did. For months.

Scratches head.....shrug its all one language anyways :P

Sorry Eager Beaver.

I've been to a lot of diff places in spain. I even went to school there for a bit.

I've also lived for a while in Bilbao and madrid. Ages ago now though...years.

I still feel i am right though.

Maybe ask a spanish person how much catalan they can understand.

I've literally explained to you that I have Spanish family and friends, I work with Spaniards etc who can't understand a native catalan conversation.

And why is your mom (remember your parents used you to order in restaurants, so she's not Spanish) an authority on this? You'll find very few Spaniards (except maybe Vox voters) who would try to argue that Spanish and Catalan are one language. That'd be like saying Spanish and Italian are the same language.

ILoveYourVibes · 25-05-2020 12:51pm

EagererBeaver wrote: »

I've literally explained to you that I have Spanish family and friends, I work with Spaniards etc who can't understand a native catalan conversation.

And why is your mom (remember your parents used you to order in restaurants, so she's not Spanish) an authority on this? You'll find very few Spaniards (except maybe Vox voters) who would try to argue that Spanish and Catalan are one language. That'd be like saying Spanish and Italian are the same language.

I know they are two different languages. Why are you making this political ?

I am saying they are very very similar.

Like Dutch and German etc. Like Russian and a lot of other slavic Languages etc. Slovenian is similar to croatian etc. Scots Gaelic is really the same language as Irish.

Yes I know my own mother is not Spanish. But she knew where we had lived which would account for my hearing catalan regularly as a kid.

Anyway OP ..just do what you can each day. Then go for a holiday.

For each hr of classes i would recommend 2 hrs of self study. And some fun things. But to go there is the most important thing.

EagererBeaver · 25-05-2020 1:08pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I know they are two different languages. Why are you making this political ?

I am saying they are very very similar.

Like Dutch and German etc. Like Russian and a lot of other slavic Languages etc.

Yes I know my own mother is not Spanish. But she knew where we had lived which would account for my hearing catalan regularly as a kid.

Anyway OP ..just do what you can each day. Then go for a holiday.

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Scratches head.....shrug its all one language anyways :P

Part of your argument about how easily understood a Catalan conversation would be to a Spaniard was that your (non Spanish) mother told you it was all one language...

Political? Where have I made it political?!

ILoveYourVibes · 25-05-2020 1:11pm

EagererBeaver wrote: »

Part of your argument about how easily understood a Catalan conversation would be to a Spaniard was that your (non Spanish) mother told you it was all one language...

Nope. My mother mentioned where we lived catalan would be regularly spoken.

Scratches head.....shrug its all one language anyways :P

You need to lighten up.

You know what you are doing.

EagererBeaver · 25-05-2020 1:16pm

But whether Catalan is regularly spoken in Catalunya isn't the subject of the discussion? (or for that matter, up for debate to any non-mental person).

You're moving goalposts and losing the run of yourself completely.

normanoffside · 25-05-2020 1:38pm

FVP3 wrote: »

Catalan is clearly somewhere between Spanish and French.

Lots of Italian influence too.
If you have an understanding of Spanish, French and Italian you can understand a fair bit of Catalan although the same could be said for Romanian.
It’s undoubtedly it’s own langauage.

ILoveYourVibes · 25-05-2020 1:48pm

normanoffside wrote: »

Lots of Italian influence too.
If you have an understanding of Spanish, French and Italian you can understand a fair bit of Catalan although the same could be said for Romanian.
It’s undoubtedly it’s own langauage.

True. I can't understand a word of Romanian though! I can understand a bit of catalan!

I posted a really interesting video earlier with a french canadian a mexican and a catalan having a conversation in their own languages to see how much they could understand it was really interesting.

Some catalans also took a mexican around to see how much catalan he could get.

Its like dutch /german.

Or Irish and Scots Gaelic.

boardise · 25-05-2020 1:59pm

KevRossi wrote: »

I have fluent German and very good French, so I'll give you my tip on conversation practice; Practice with yourself.

Start speaking to yourself in Spanish, so instead of thinking; "I'm hungry, I'll see if there's anything to eat in the fridge", just think the same to yourself in Spanish. When it does come to speaking the language you won't have to go looking for words and phrases, you'll already have a fair few of them off.

The poster above who said to put Post-it notes on everything is right as well.

Look for Spanish books for kids, especially those with a lot of conversation in them, it'll be easier to read and understand than books for adults.
Try to find Spanish TV programmes online for kids, again the language they use will be a lot simpler.

Offer free language classes to Spanish people here in return for the same. Meet up for 2 hours; one hour speaking English, one hour speaking Spanish. You can do this via Zoom as well with people in Spain.

Finally, try to get a couple of weeks in Spain, do not go to a main touristed area as a good deal of people will speak English, rent a house in a smaller town and start chatting to people.

Also, if in Dublin there are conversational groups in the Central Library in the ILAC centre every week, not sure when they will kick off again after COVID.

Brilliant advice here -perceptive and pertinent. The point about using material aimed at kids is spot on -I've done this myself to good effect.
Also going to non-tourist areas is crucial. An immersive experience may be testing at first but will pay dividends. As the motto has it -Per ardua ad astra !

ILoveYourVibes · 25-05-2020 2:31pm

Hey OP have you tried Instituto Cervantes?

I think they have a choir.

https://dublin.cervantes.es/en/courses_spanish/general_courses_spanish/general_courses_n.htm

They have cultural events from Latin America as well as spain.

There are diff levels you can progress to. They go all the way up to C2 spanish DELE i think...

Check it out.

boardise · 25-05-2020 5:08pm

OP - if you're anyway musical -another little ploy that would help would be to learn a few verses of some folk or pop songs in the target language or a translation of some well known ditties in English.

Another hint i would offer is the following - Right from the start learn the new language in 'chunks' i.e. in phrases of maybe 3 ,4 or 5 words. A surprising amount of all language is in just such a form . Words in isolation are ok but words in colloquial combinations are a catapult to fluency.
The great thing about phrases is that all the grammatical packaging has been done -gender, agreement, noun cases etc.-so the use of these phrases engenders the correct grammar in your mind and can be absorbed subconsciously .

The ultimate question you need to ask is -what is my motivation ? I believe that motivation is the strongest driver to language competence. Let's say a young student -on Erasmus or some such- meets someone with whom they would like to form a relationship -that's a 22 carat motivation right there. It could be an employee in an organisation who realises that a 2nd lang would increase their chances of promotion - again a clear,powerful and focused motivation.
What prevents many learners of an L2 from getting anywhere is that they have only a vague wishy-washy idea of why they want to learn it or what they would do with it. Thinking ' It might be nice to learn some Lg X 'won't get them very far.
I met many people who never got beyond lesson 3 in Buntús Cainte in trying to learn Gaelic . Lacking a tangible motivation ,the project kept slipping to the bottom of their priority list at no cost.
Best of luck with your laudable linguistic endeavours . Buena suerte.

Unregistered39 · 26-05-2020 11:23pm

Omackeral wrote: »

You get better at English while you’re at it.

I’m learning Spanish myself the last couple of years. Duolingo is good, if formulaic, but I’d fully recommend going to actual classes if you’re serious about it. Can’t beat interacting with others and asking questions. Online stuff misses nuance.

A little thing I did to build vocabulary was wrote Spanish words on post-its and stick them around the house until the word was burned into my brain. Sounds weird but it works!

Best of luck.

Ha! I did this when I started out. Post-its on the walls, the kettle, inside the bathroom cabinet - I'll never forget the words though!

feargale · 26-05-2020 11:26pm

I've dabbled in a few languages over time and bought various stuff. I invested in a full Michel Thomas kit, found it very expensive, and in no way exceptional given its price. I've never used Rosetta, but again given its price it would in my opinion need to be super. I get the impression that it's huge into advertising itself, and that in itself would make me wary. Those who have used it may think differently.
There was a company in Dublin years ago doing vocabulary cassettes in all the major European languages ( and Irish.) I wonder if it's past tense or if they converted to CDs. I found them very good, no repetition.so alot was fitted in. Courses drove me up the wall when you had to wait ten minutes to start learning while they told you what an easy language it was, and how you would be fluent in three months and told you how to sit back and relax and breathe in and out etc. All I wanted to know then was the relevant word for bulls++t.
Duolingo is good if you're starting from scratch but it won't make you fluent. In fact, my friend, unless you're Einstein fluency means living in the language for a minimum of
2-3 years.

ILoveYourVibes · 27-05-2020 12:02am

feargale wrote: »

Duolingo is good if you're starting from scratch but it won't make you fluent. In fact, my friend, unless you're Einstein fluency means living in the language for a minimum of
2-3 years.

I don't feel so bad about not being fluent after living there for one year now! :pac:

feargale · 27-05-2020 1:47am

rapul wrote: »

Just get better at Irish your ****ing Irish!

There's always one.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't seen a single post by you in an Irish language thread.
I speak Irish, and whenever I see yobs come into boards.ie to insult the Irish language or those who speak it I counter it and call them out. But I do not preach to others about the language, or claim they have any obligation to speak it, any more than I would lecture them on an obligation to practise or not any particular religion. Those things are their business.
It is people like you and attitudes like yours that have caused a large section of the Irish people to despise the language.
Apologies to others here for going off track, but the intrusion which I have replied to was uncalled for.

global23214124 · 20-07-2020 8:37pm

Podcasts
Lightspeed spanish
Spanishobsessed.com
Michel Thomas is ok for beginning with but don't expect any miracles with it

TV shows
Extr@s
Destinos
Cuéntame
Elite

Resources
Spanish Dict
LinQ could be ok but I never got into the habit with it.

ILoveYourVibes · 21-07-2020 4:11am

Here is a website that does online bilingual books.

https://albalearning.com/
https://albalearning.com/audiolibros/lovecraft/elgrito-sp-en.html

https://albalearning.com/audiolibros/andersen/abuelita-sp.html

You can read just with spanish alone or with english beside. There is also a native spanish speaker reading along.

Here is one where you hover over the text for the english

http://www.doppeltext.com/en/bilingual-books/123/alarc%C3%B3n-la-mujer-alta#ch1

I love this site ..Pollito Tito is partic fav of mine!

https://www.thespanishexperiment.com/stories

Routledge reference grammars a new reference of modern spanish grammar

Also if there are things you are interested in get some books in spanish about them.

I am currently reading las brujas viajes by Terry Pratchet! Also Danny el campeon del mundo!

I know you said you don't like youtube. Well in this case its imperative you start listening to spanish songs and movies. Maybe you could get some tv channels too?

I mean you can learn yo estaba bailando from a book but it would be much more fun if you learnt it from DUKI

Also check out Bad Bunny yo perreo solo! :P

I also think you need to find a native speaker to chat to. And I think you need some formal classes.

Not true that its a waste of time learning one form over the other.

Every region has its own peculiarities when it vomss to accents, pronunciation, slang, etc. But They can all understand each other.

Even within countries there are differences between one place and another..

Argentinians use the word vos instead of tu, which has implications for verbs forms. Its distinctive but certainly not incomprehensible to people from other countries.

I agree.

You do use Vos in spain ...just not that often and in the same way as Argentinians do. You will need to learn it for Spanish in spain too eventually.

Basically in Argentinian they say vos sos ...instead of tu es ....its just sort of yall are instead of you are ..but they use it for singular.

I mean tu quieres ...doesnt really SOUND like it changes it just changes in spelling vos queres it isn't anything particularly special or weird in spoken spanish... habláis = hablás coméis =comés sentís =sentís. It actually isn't hard to understand. It doesn't sound that different. You just have to train your ear to different accents really.It comes from the "vosotros" form "sois" and "queréis", but the meaning is different depending on the country/region you're in. But if you are learning basic spanish you know you need to know vosotros.

In actual practise its never an issue. So don't worry about it. Just concentrate on trying to learn as much as you can and learn thoroughly.

As for mexican spanish again uestedes is still used in spain you just use it less. Vosotros is still used in Mexico ..you just rarely use it.

Also mexican spanish is great for starting because they speak quite slowly and clearly.

I can understand Argentinian Spanish just as well as i can madrid spanish. Its really not that different. When i can't understand its not the dialect that is the issue its just my spanish isn't good enough.

I think people make excuses for not understand spanish like its the dialect etc. Its simply they don't have enough spanish. Yes there might be the odd sentence etc but its not THAT different.

Also you have to remember that in spain ...latin american movies music etc ...have a huge impact on young culture and the way people speak.

Its like Hiberno english etc ...we would say ...i do be walking home ...i 'm only after getting off the bus etc..we would say Ah sure i am great am't I?. These are also differently grammatically from ...I have just gotten off the bus. And no other english speaking country contracts or 'uses am I not ?' anymore. But someone from England would understand us.

ILoveYourVibes · 21-07-2020 4:44am

CBear1993 wrote: »

Have heard a lot about this before actually on the South American /Latin vs actual Spanish.

I’m not sure, whichever is going to be carried better around the world I suppose! I would holiday in America a good bit and Europe.

What’s the thoughts on the difference between both?

The basic thing between the americans and european spanish is the ceceo and the fact that europeans don't annunciate vowels clearly. Mexicans tend to lean into vowels..much the same way Americans do compared to english people. Spanish vowels are short and clipped. And people from the south will drop s etc or sometimes even ds. Whereas latin americans tend to communicate very clearly.

The first time i was learning spanish it was from a spanish woman from catalonia (yes she called herself spanish and she spoke spanish with a central madrid accent) and her husband was from Argentina. I never had any issue understanding him. Oh people will say there is this SH sound. Like Yo become SHO...don't worry its more like they make the Y sound so hard its becoming a sho...you can still tell its yo. And because ll in spanish is a y sound too they do it will ll. But its just y being done so hard it sounds sho...like ysho...I hope you can understand me. It might not make sense but if you here an Argentinian say Yo you would get it. Yo mo llamo ...could sound a tiny bit ..ySho mo shllamo but you will still understand it. Don't be scared.

Mexican spanish ...honestly is probably the most clear.

Usted in spain is really only reserved for ...a really old person. They might use ustedes for formal occasions. But mostly for plural forms they use vosotros.

In South/Latin America they generally use Usted for the singular and ustedes for the plural form.

Then there is Tuteo vrs Voseo ...Vos is used in a lot of latin american countries ..not just Argentina.

Don't worry about it though. Whatever you decide to learn you will be understood so long as you speak clearly. But honestly in spoken spanish the way vos conjugates the verb in the present tense doesn't sound that diff. So don't worry you still get they are talking about you etc.

Here is an easy way to remember USTED ...the verb conjugated for the formal you ..like you are talking about he or she. él/ella/usted habla

Ustedes conjugates like ellos

The only thing i think you need to worry about is if you get into a habit of speaking european spanish ..and you go to mexico ...it will be hard to change an accent. And the ceceo or 'lips' (dont call it a lisp tho) is very noticeable but hard to get rid of.

Mexicans also speak in a more eloquent polite way. So that is something to be aware of. Like using ustedes all the time. They sound quite educated.

Spain is a little more informal. And they will think you feel uncomfortable if you say usted/ustedes a lot.

Things like senorita seem to be used less in spain by young women ...senora to be PC ...but in latin american its still senorita. Although that can be a generation thing.

Of course what spanish you want to learn depends on where you want to go etc. But you really need to understand as many dialects as you can. Because they will actually help you understand the language and how it developed.

Dont worry in practice you won't actually have an issue understanding latin american spanish. Its much clearer!

Some latin american countries have some influence from other countries ..argentinian spanish can sound italian ..they have a lot of italian influence ..and italian slang.

Obv mexican slang .chilean slang etc can be diff. But i have noticed latin American slang is being used by spanish young people now. Its mostly from latin american films and rappers etc.

Like the same way we see american films etc and use their slang.

that is all i can think of..sorry the above is so scatty!

ILoveYourVibes · 21-07-2020 5:03am

Upforthematch wrote: »

I'm aware of the differences.

If the Op wants to go to Mexico though it's wasting their time learning Castilian.

There's a lot of American based resources depending on what the Op's choice of dialect.

Not at all.

In mexican spanish Usted is just conjugated like el /ella in european spanish

In mexican spanish Ustedes is just conjugated like ellos ellas is in european spanish.

Vos just takes away the “i” from the -ar/-er vosotros conjugation. So vosotros sois =vos sos, vosotros habláis = vos hablás, vosotros tenéis = vos tenés etc. They actually sound very alike in spoken spanish.

Plus you have to learn usted / ustedes in european spanish anyways. They do use it in some parts of spain or certain formal situations. They also use usted/ustedes everywhere in situations where its formal or polite in spain too.

Ustedes /usted is just infrequently used in spain. Just as vosotros is infrequently used in mexico. But i mean ..in mexico kids will be taught vosotros in school. They just don't use it ever. But they do see Spanish films or read Spanish books also online ...all Spanish speakers talk to each other like we talk to americans etc. And they have folk songs and poems that use it.

The first time I heard latin american spanish i was like ..why is this considered so different?

If you know how to conjugate fully in european spanish you can conjugate in latin america.

Yes there will be slang etc or colloquialism.

Gael23 · 04-09-2020 9:25pm

How much more expensive is Rosetta Stone over others?

bilbot79 · 03-10-2020 8:22pm

Does anyone know if there are zoom based instructor led classes in Spanish at all?

global23214124 · 04-10-2020 1:50pm

bilbot79 wrote: »

Does anyone know if there are zoom based instructor led classes in Spanish at all?

https://www.spanishobsessed.com/academy/ these guys offer them. 1 hour per week for 8 weeks and you can choose your level. Only 3 weeks in but it's helpful as there are only 3 students in our class so you get a decent amount of practise in.

bilbot79 · 05-10-2020 12:00pm

global23214124 wrote: »

https://www.spanishobsessed.com/academy/ these guys offer them. 1 hour per week for 8 weeks and you can choose your level. Only 3 weeks in but it's helpful as there are only 3 students in our class so you get a decent amount of practise in.

Oh that looks really good. I've done a good bit of Duolingo but need to speak. I would say I'm more beginner than pre intermediate but unfortunately the 4-5pm time slot for beginner doesn't work for me

global23214124 · 05-10-2020 8:09pm

bilbot79 wrote: »

Oh that looks really good. I've done a good bit of Duolingo but need to speak. I would say I'm more beginner than pre intermediate but unfortunately the 4-5pm time slot for beginner doesn't work for me

If you are looking for flexibility and to get speaking with you could try Italki to find a teacher. Prices + Quality vary but they have reviews to check and the times are very flexible.

ILoveYourVibes · 25-10-2020 3:27am

bilbot79 wrote: »

Does anyone know if there are zoom based instructor led classes in Spanish at all?

Cervantes Institute is doing them.

mistersifter · 25-10-2020 1:43pm

bilbot79 wrote: »

Does anyone know if there are zoom based instructor led classes in Spanish at all?

I can pass you details of an experienced spanish teacher who works via zoom if you like.

usually cheaper to go directly to the individual rather than through institutes. So depending on your needs, that might work best for you.

Send me a PM if you need the contact details

jamesbondings · 25-10-2020 1:50pm

From my experience.

If you ever intend on using spanish proffesionally then i would suggest get classes. Understand the structure of the language, spellings, past tense etc. I learned spanish in los calles when i lived there as a teenager, i then went to university and struggled with the spanish side of it - although I am fluent and by far the most advanced at speaking i couldnt get my head around the basics.

If just learning how to speak it, then any of the resources above will help you out, with the current climate learning in Spain isnt really an option. I would also say that spanish is spanish, the same way english is english (ie fanny in america, is not what it is here) to catch a bus in spain is to have sex with a bus in argentina, trial and error! Enjoy, I love being able to speak another language but dont get enough practice here in Ireland.

ILoveYourVibes · 08-11-2020 12:44pm

There are actually 2 past tenses in spanish.

And that is NOT counting ANY of the compound tenses(he estado/ he sido etc) . You have the imperfecto de indictivo and the preterite. And they use them both. One for (lets say estar)...i was here WHEN eg (estaba estabas etc)....and one for i was here last tues ..then. eg (estuvé estuviste etc)

Also ser is a verb that is not just irregular in form ..but in the way its used ...In that the above rule is not true for ser.
ike for example they use era , eras etc(imprefecto de indictivo tense) of ser where you would think they would use fuí /fuiste/fué etc(preterite) and its just idiomatic. Like i can't give you a rule.

There are 18 tenses in spanish inc the compound ones..and you need to get to grips with all of them ...Because unlike english the spanish use the subjunctive ALL the time. Estuviera estuvieras .even estuviese ..etc Hubiera estado etc.

I mean i hear them all the time in make up tutorials on youtube etc.

Plus the use of ser vrs estar ...

Its not like french where the passe simple is only in books....they use ALL the tenses in spoken spanish.

Honestly the BEST thing is to listen to natural conversation.

Watching Paquita Salas will help you with grammar :P

Yeah get some lessons ..but get some with a NATIVE speaker.

I have to say tho....before studying it MORE formally ....i wouldn't have been able to explain ser vrs estar to you ...or era vrs fui....i would have only have been able to say that it was idiomatic. Whereas ..i can't KIND OF explain it now. (basically its idiomatic :P )

All i know is era is things you were ...and fui ..is things that happened. Unless its idiomatically not the case :P

Estaba is places you were ..when something happened (preterite is an incompleted action in the past ..except of course for ser!) ...estuvé just a place you were .

Learning Spanish

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