Baby names!

Lucuma · 05-02-2014 9:12pm

I did suggest to my husband not having a christening (this was well before we got pregnant during one of our many hypothetical conversations/debates over the years) and he said 'It's not just about you and what you want y'know'' meaning that there are grandparents that need to be taken into account. When I thought about it, i saw his point.
My parents have done so much for me, and have always been there for me, and this will mean a lot to them, it's the least I can do for them. And his parents would be the same. They just wouldn't understand not having a christening so I do think that in certain situations in life you have to suck it up and do things just because it's the right thing to do for the people who have given you so much in life.
Also we've had a few tragedies over the last few years in both families, and one particularly devestating one in my family (loss of a young child) and that experience made me realise - there are enough sad days and sad events in life, my god you have to celebrate the happy ones! And the birth of this child if it happens please god, will be such a monumentous occasion and happy day for us, there's no way i'm letting it pass without a celebration! :-)
if we were from the type of family where a naming ceremony would be acceptable, then i would do that i think it's a great idea - but for us christening is what will be expected and what everyone will most enjoy.

Hello Lady! · 05-02-2014 9:23pm

But you are the parents now, you get to decide how your child will be raised and what beliefs you want to impart to them. There are ways to have what you want without offending and upsetting people too much, and to be honest to a certain extent now you are parents its time to stop pandering to other people's wants and start doing what is right for your family. If people take offence at the manner in which you celebrate the arrival of a child into the family then I think it's them that need to consider other people's feelings and not you.

No one is more religious than my dad - a eucharistic minister, very active in the parish, if priests could marry I reckon he would have been one! But these are my children and it's my choice how I raise them and he just has to have faith in the fact that he raised me to be who I am. He would prefer a Christian baptism, but it's not his decision. Whilst I am no longer a follower of Catholicism and steer clear of organised religion, at the same time I have enough respect for them not to be a hypocrite just to appease others. Making such serious promises on behalf of your children is not to be taken lightly IMO. I know other people say 'ah sure what about it, it's only a drop of water' but personally I couldn't undermine the whole concept of the faith in that way, I just wouldn't be comfortable with it.

I suppose I'm the sort of person who thinks you either do something and mean it, or don't do it. But don't do it and not believe in what you are participating in. But I am like that in all aspects of life, not just when it comes to religion.

Lucuma · 05-02-2014 9:32pm

yeah i think it depends on your priorities? for some it's more important to be true to the fact that ye as a couple have decided not to raise the child in the catholic church, even if it upsets the grandparents. I fully respect that and think that ye are very brave. but for us, making our parents happy is very important to us, we see it as repaying them for the many, many things they have done for us (and will no doubt continue to do) and so for us, this is the right choice.

pwurple · 05-02-2014 9:33pm

Really don't like the language used the the above post. Thinking about others, especially a grieving family, isn't "pandering", it's being a considerate human being.

ShaShaBear · 05-02-2014 11:32pm

pwurple wrote: »

Really don't like the language used the the above post. Thinking about others, especially a grieving family, isn't "pandering", it's being a considerate human being.

Aye but I also see where she is coming from, and totally agree that it is hypocrisy and blasphemous to stand in a church of God and lie just to give religious family members what they want. If they were true Catholics, they would find such an act abhorrent, which is why I am not christening any of my children, despite the upset it has caused my mother and grandmother.

Hello Lady! · 06-02-2014 1:50am

pwurple wrote: »

Really don't like the language used the the above post. Thinking about others, especially a grieving family, isn't "pandering", it's being a considerate human being.

I find it interesting that the predominant thing you take from my post is the word pandering. If you notice, I did mention that you can still be considerate of others but that there are ways to do that whilst still being authentic to your own beliefs.

consideration works both ways - a good Christian should be considerate and tolerant of other people's wishes, whether that be a religious element to the occasion or not.. A family celebration is always welcome when tough times come your way, we all need positive things to help us through dark days. You don't need to follow a prescribed formula for that celebration for it to have meaning. If a grandparent was to be upset to the point of it causing a problem then they are the ones being inconsiderate. As I say, you don't have to be confrontational in how you go about it, but it is possible to make compromises without compromising your beliefs.

Hello Lady! · 06-02-2014 1:54am

pwurple wrote: »

Really don't like the language used the the above post. Thinking about others, especially a grieving family, isn't "pandering", it's being a considerate human being.

consideration works both ways - a good Christian should be considerate and tolerant of other people's wishes, whether that be a religious element to the occasion or not.. A family celebration is always welcome when tough times come your way, we all need positive things to help us through dark days. You don't need to follow a prescribed formula for that celebration for it to have meaning. If a grandparent was to be upset to the point of it causing a problem then they are the ones being inconsiderate. As I say, you don't have to be confrontational in how you go about it, but it is possible to make compromises without compromising your beliefs.

Rosy Posy · 06-02-2014 7:50am

Lucuma wrote: »

I'd say that happens quite a bit....and if one person can tell me an example where it was decided to go with:

His choice, her choice

I'll eat my hat!

I'm really interested that some of you aren't having baptisms. I thought everyone still did that in Ireland regardless of whether they hadn't darkened the door of a church in 10 or 20 years! Fair play to ye for sticking up for what ye (don't) believe in

Our third child was His choice-my choice. We tend to shorten it to the initials for everyday use as it's slightly longer than our other kids' names. Anytime with the hat-eating...pics or gtfo :P

We didn't baptise either, my mam wasn't particularly impressed but I told her that if the church really is the house of God then God would be more pi$$ed with us standing before His alter lying that we would raise the kids as Catholic when we have no intention of doing so. She's coming round to the idea. We had secular naming ceremonies of our own design and nominated grandparents. I think it helps that our chosen school does not require the kids to be baptised. That seems to be the reason for most non religious people going through with it these days, as well as pleasing the auld dears.

Edit: just read the above debate- my two cents:
I think you need to weigh up how much it means to the parents vs the family. Some people are dead against organised religion others are just a bit meh over it. If you weren't bothered one way or another then what's the problem in acquiescing in order to promote family harmony. Living in a family and community in general is all about compromise. I try to compromise on the things that I don't feel terribly strongly over so that I can be staunch about the things that I do.

For us the only person that really cared about the baptism was my mam and even she has had her faith in the church shaken in the last few years by their treatment of women and children and homosexuals. Also our family are used to us being a bit alternative at this stage and could accept a secular naming ceremony. I did go to a friend's naming ceremony which I felt was quite sad- they are dyed in the wool hippies and the family is pretty staunchly catholic. They put a lot of thought into a beautiful ceremony in the woods but you could just feel the eyerolling derision from some family members that detracted from what they were trying to achieve. It's all about finding a balance between peoples needs and desires IMO and you need to do what works for your family.

Lucuma · 06-02-2014 9:10am

Yeah any child we have will be going to the same primary school i went to myself, catholic school in a small rural village. it's a good school and it will be in the same school as its first cousins (same as me when i was growing up).

Thankfully we are the last generation in ireland that face this conundrum. We won't mind if our kids don't baptise their kids, naming ceremonies will be grand! :-)

Rosy Posy · 06-02-2014 10:03am

Lucuma wrote: »

Thankfully we are the last generation in ireland that face this conundrum. We won't mind if our kids don't baptise their kids, naming ceremonies will be grand! :-)

I wouldn't be so sure. People tend to become more conservative as they get older and the status quo still holds a lot of clout. I have to say that having gone to a multi denominational school myself and sending my kids to one I find schools insistence on pupils being baptised a little strange. Surely there's so much ethnic diversity in Ireland these days that in smaller places non Christian children would be pretty disadvantaged by this rule. Also don't see how it can be justified in state run schools, surely they should be for everyone? I really don't know the ins and outs of it though.

pwurple · 06-02-2014 3:05pm

Hello Lady! wrote: »

I find it interesting that the predominant thing you take from my post is the word pandering. If you notice, I did mention that you can still be considerate of others but that there are ways to do that whilst still being authentic to your own beliefs.

consideration works both ways - a good Christian should be considerate and tolerant of other people's wishes, whether that be a religious element to the occasion or not.. A family celebration is always welcome when tough times come your way, we all need positive things to help us through dark days. You don't need to follow a prescribed formula for that celebration for it to have meaning. If a grandparent was to be upset to the point of it causing a problem then they are the ones being inconsiderate. As I say, you don't have to be confrontational in how you go about it, but it is possible to make compromises without compromising your beliefs.

I could see this discussion starting down the road of people being called hypocrites, pandering to people, etc etc etc. I don't think it's right to go ahead and start insulting people over this kind of choice.

You're right, family celebrations are always welcome, whatever the reason. And a prescribed formula can often make this extremely easy and less painful, especially when there are difficult memories involved. Routine and ritual can be very calming for children, and I think it often extends to adults, especially the elderly.

I have see the nex-catholics in own family deal with their own spirituality. The naming ceremonies for their children were so informal that people weren't sure whether to turn up or not. Most of the family didn't for the second or third one, as it was standing in a field, with a few cups of lemonade. I went to all of them, I'd go to the opening of a packet of crisps, but it seemed odd. A non-religious funeral was confusing for a lot of the family. People didn't know where to go, what to say, there was no grave, just ashes. They have started going to athiest meetings on sunday mornings. That's all fine, people can practice or not practice to their hearts content. But it's the constant string of insults from these people towards religions which winds me up. They're doing almost exactly the same thing, in their own way, and objecting to others practices in the same breathe? Saying people aren't catholic enough, or don't go to mass enough. I really just want to tell the ex-catholic recent converts to give it a rest! (and I use the term specifically, as people who are athiests for a few generations don't bother doing this. )

I don't know. We have several faiths and non-faiths in our own family, jewish, angelican, RC, orthodox christian, and athiests. Some of our very close friends would be j witnesses. I couldn't give a monkeys what anyone does spiritually, and I'm lucky enough to invited to all sorts of celebrations... but it's only the ex-catholics who seem to delight in using such condescending and insulting language towards people who chose a different set of rituals to themselves.

Merkin · 06-02-2014 5:23pm

Excellent post pwurple.

pwurple wrote: »

That's all fine, people can practice or not practice to their hearts content. But it's the constant string of insults from these people towards religions which winds me up.

And then insisting on getting married in a church

I too find this really grating. Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs or lack thereof but the ongoing castigation of those who are deemed to practice religion in any way, however loosely, is extremely annoying. Spirituality is such a personal thing - live and let live I say.

Marty McFly · 06-02-2014 5:43pm

Sorry to wade in here, I notice a lot of people saying grandparents, relatives would be upset if the child isn't Baptised well to put it bluntly who cares.

Yes my parents raised me and I thank them for that and they can take solace in the fact they raised me well, now it's my turn and I will do things my way.

But if you are a non believer in religion or the church should you for me the most important part of this push a belief upon your child for the rest of there lives just to try keep family members happy? I really don't think so.

At the end of the day the child will be my first and only consideration and I'm not going to go to church, communions, confirmations etc pushing something I have no belief on upon my child to keep some family members happy. If the child chooses to be Catholic, Jewish, Muslim then so be it I will support them in there decision but I don't want to take that decision out of there hands and force it upon them just because it's the done thing in Ireland and to keep some family members happy with the status quo.

If you are Religious or do have faith it's all well and good to pass that faith on but for non religious people I don't get it.

Hello Lady! · 06-02-2014 6:03pm

pwurple wrote: »

.

You're right, family celebrations are always welcome, whatever the reason. And a prescribed formula can often make this extremely easy and less painful, especially when there are difficult memories involved. Routine and ritual can be very calming for children, and I think it often extends to adults, especially the elderly.

I have see the nex-catholics in own family deal with their own spirituality. The naming ceremonies for their children were so informal that people weren't sure whether to turn up or not. .

I totally hear what you are saying pwurple but as I did say more than once, there are ways to compromise. For example this could be to have a more formalised ceremony, similar in structure to a church ceremony but without the religious references thus making it easier for the older generation to acclimatise to. Not all non religious ceremonies take place in a field with no structure! We're not all hippies! Lol.

But as the last poster says ultimately it all comes down to whether you are prepared to do things to don't believe in to please others. In that regard I think the people who need to be pleased are the inconsiderate ones not the people raising their children in the way they would prefer. It's not right to guilt trip people into such things.

As to the issue of ex Catholics being more vociferous and judgmental I don't know about that. It hasn't been my experience anyway - more likely that most lapsed or ex Catholics do exactly as you suggest and have ceremonies for the sake of pleasing others. Maybe I am one of those mean ex Catholics you refer to but I do believe doing that is hypocritical and disrespectful. I don't bang on about it at every wedding or christening I go to, but if I am totally honest I do feel a bit disappointed in the couple/parents for doing that.

pwurple · 06-02-2014 10:30pm

Hello Lady! wrote: »

more likely that most lapsed or ex Catholics do exactly as you suggest and have ceremonies for the sake of pleasing others. Maybe I am one of those mean ex Catholics you refer to but I do believe doing that is hypocritical and disrespectful. I don't bang on about it at every wedding or christening I go to, but if I am totally honest I do feel a bit disappointed in the couple/parents for doing that.

How do you know that they are lapsed or ex catholics though? I wouldn't exactly facebook check-in "At Mass". Plus... I would normally consider someones spirituality to be fairly personal. I wouldn't interrogate people about the way they express themselves spiritually, just as I wouldn't ask them if they had fertility problems or were gay. None of my business.

monflat · 06-02-2014 10:54pm

Quality wrote: »

Well ladies & gentlemen, what names have you in mind for babs?

My list gets longer every month...:eek:

This was the first thread
I looked in to see if i could get any hints / ideas of names.......
Do the mods not think things have gone a little off topic OR do we start a new " baby names " thread.

dubstarr · 06-02-2014 10:59pm

I was just going to post that,its gone way off topic.So come on back to what the thread is about.

Hello Lady! · 06-02-2014 11:02pm

pwurple wrote: »

How do you know that they are lapsed or ex catholics though? I wouldn't exactly facebook check-in "At Mass". Plus... I would normally consider someones spirituality to be fairly personal. I wouldn't interrogate people about the way they express themselves spiritually, just as I wouldn't ask them if they had fertility problems or were gay. None of my business.

I can only refer to my own experience and the vast majority of my friends would not be mass goers or practicing Catholics. However a large number of them got married in a church and had their kids christened. After our civil ceremony lot of people commented on how they would have loved to do that but it would have upset one of the Mammy's. Since getting pregnant and now having my girls we have been asked about christening the girls (people seem particularly interested as a lot of my husbands family are non Christian). When we mentioned the naming ceremony, again we met a lot of comments of 'we would love to do that but the grandparents would be upset'. Another good few said they didn't have/won't have anything as they don't want to be hypocrites but if they have anything other than a christening people will have their nose out of joint so it's easier to do nothing. Same goes for children making their communion/confirmation because it's just easier to do what is expected.

I don't need to interrogate people to know this - they are friends and relatives so it's easy enough to chat about these things and to know that they don't attend mass nor are they particularly Catholic in how they worship whatever god they believe in.

Synyster Shadow · 06-02-2014 11:06pm

We have chosen names and that's Luke for boy Lucy for girl.. thing is I really like Henry too hubby won't sway though

Hello Lady! · 06-02-2014 11:07pm

Synyster Shadow wrote: »

We have chosen names and that's Luke for boy Lucy for girl.. thing is I really like Henry too hubby won't sway though

I like Henry too.

Synyster Shadow · 06-02-2014 11:12pm

I was thinking if I got enough people here who liked it we could all change his mind lol

January · 06-02-2014 11:16pm

monflat wrote: »

This was the first thread
I looked in to see if i could get any hints / ideas of names.......
Do the mods not think things have gone a little off topic OR do we start a new " baby names " thread.

Sup, you know mods have lives too... I'm currently dying of heartburn in bed at 29 weeks pregnant. Y'know, maybe if you, oh... I dunno, reported the posts that were dragging the thread off topic a mod might flag it and sort it out. We're not online 24/7 but we do get email notifications of reported posts so could pop in and check what's going on if you did that.

January · 06-02-2014 11:17pm

And on that note guys, no more chat about baptisms here. I'd suggest the Christianity forum for that if you want to start a new discussion.

January · 06-02-2014 11:17pm

Synyster Shadow wrote: »

I was thinking if I got enough people here who liked it we could all change his mind lol

I don't like Henry...

I like Luke though

Hello Lady! · 06-02-2014 11:18pm

Haha put up a poll! You can set up a load of email addresses and sign up for loads of user names and vote til you change his mind!

My friend loved the name Louis for her bump, but hubby wasn't keen. Over the space of 5 months she worked on him and about a week before the birth hubby had been won over, Louis it was. But then he was born and she thought he didn't look like a Louis and ended up calling him Nathan. All that effort! Now every time she tries to convince hubby to do something her way he reminds her of the whole 'Louis' debacle!

Chattastrophe! · 06-02-2014 11:22pm

My boyfriend was 100% decided on William all along, but I wasn't sure. I remember him being born, and the midwife asking if he had a name ... I said "His name is William. Oh wait, hang on, is it even a boy?!"

cant26 · 06-02-2014 11:42pm

Synyster Shadow wrote: »

We have chosen names and that's Luke for boy Lucy for girl.. thing is I really like Henry too hubby won't sway though

I really like Henry. It was on my list of names but we went with Harry instead.

Synyster Shadow · 07-02-2014 12:01am

I like the name Louis.. think its because I like the film "interview with the vampire" (the only decent film both were in lol)

I love Luke though looks like the way its going..

pwurple · 07-02-2014 12:56pm

What do people think of Cate vs Kate? I've liked Kate for a while, but I know LOADS of them. My mum suggested Cate, but I'm thinking it's a bit celeb-following, with Cate Blanchette being the only time I've seen it used.

Jerrica · 07-02-2014 12:58pm

pwurple wrote: »

What do people think of Cate vs Kate? I've liked Kate for a while, but I know LOADS of them. My mum suggested Cate, but I'm thinking it's a bit celeb-following, with Cate Blanchette being the only time I've seen it used.

I wouldn't have associated Cate with celebs at all, and I think it's a lovely, gentle spelling of the name.

Baby names!

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