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16-05-2013, 00:14   #31
Coles
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And one day maybe a United Ireland will become a possibility. a few generations of peace could work wonders.
There won't be a United Ireland until we create a proper secular Republic that respects all traditions while bowing to none. People both sides of the border need to stop allowing themselves to be divided along stupid sectarian lines. And we need to start electing proper politicians, not the usual tiny little gombeens who have no vision for the place.
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16-05-2013, 09:11   #32
Deedsie
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Addressing someone as a 'free stater' because they did not join in a chorus as outlined above would seem that way to me. If that was correct I would say 99% of people would be classed as this.
You have described them as ignorant and given the 'free stater' comment there is a historical connotation so we are on same path.
You're reaching there I think. They could have been members of an Armagh historical society on a session (please take this as a joke) and comments were made, and tempers flared. I don't think they were expecting people to join in the chorus. I think they took issue when the cork guy (rightly) complained.
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16-05-2013, 09:13   #33
 
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It's more indicative of the person using it being stuck in a time warp from the early 20th century.
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16-05-2013, 10:09   #34
robp
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There won't be a United Ireland until we create a proper secular Republic that respects all traditions while bowing to none. People both sides of the border need to stop allowing themselves to be divided along stupid sectarian lines. And we need to start electing proper politicians, not the usual tiny little gombeens who have no vision for the place.
The peace process in the North has nothing whatsoever to do with secularisation civil or social in Ireland. Very few sectarian divisions in the 26 counties.
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16-05-2013, 10:38   #35
Deedsie
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It's more indicative of the person using it being stuck in a time warp from the early 20th century.
Blue shirts references stuck in the same place? It's not restricted to Northern Ireland. We are still suffering with pro and anti treaty politics and a civil war almost 100 years in the past.

Residual anger from the CNRNIB community will remain for a long time. I don't really blame them either.
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16-05-2013, 10:52   #36
 
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so how can referring to freedom as free be considered abusive?
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16-05-2013, 11:40   #37
Deedsie
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so how can referring to freedom as free be considered abusive?
"Free staters" in their eyes another word for sell outs. Abandoned the wording of the proclamation and accepted a half arsed middle ground that left out the Irish living in the North East.
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16-05-2013, 12:17   #38
 
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"Free staters" in their eyes another word for sell outs. Abandoned the wording of the proclamation and accepted a half arsed middle ground that left out the Irish living in the North East.
The only time I hear 'the free state' being used these days tends to be by people from Northern Ireland though and it's almost always intended to be derogatory.
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16-05-2013, 12:25   #39
Deedsie
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The only time I hear 'the free state' being used these days tends to be by people from Northern Ireland though and it's almost always intended to be derogatory.
I know, hard to blame them for having grievances with us though PUL's and CNRNIB's communities both have very valid reasons for having grievances with the RoI! I don't blame them for making derogatory comments. And you would have to work pretty hard to actually be offended by the term free stater? Loyalists consider the term Fenian to be an insult, I would be happy to be categorised as a Fenian. I think there is a thing in Northern Ireland society, where everyone must be labelled to one group or another. People from the south are free staters, unionist/loyalist associate with Orange culture, Catholics Fenians or Taigs or chuckies etc...
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16-05-2013, 12:27   #40
 
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I usually can't understand the accent anyway so the insults just go unnoticed.
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16-05-2013, 17:15   #41
Gott
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I know, hard to blame them for having grievances with us though PUL's and CNRNIB's communities both have very valid reasons for having grievances with the RoI! I don't blame them for making derogatory comments. And you would have to work pretty hard to actually be offended by the term free stater? Loyalists consider the term Fenian to be an insult, I would be happy to be categorised as a Fenian. I think there is a thing in Northern Ireland society, where everyone must be labelled to one group or another. People from the south are free staters, unionist/loyalist associate with Orange culture, Catholics Fenians or Taigs or chuckies etc...
I was actually reading a debate elsewhere about the demographics of Northern Ireland shifting in favour of the nationalists/Catholics with all the Eastern Europeans moving in over the past decade and someone, quite rightly, asked how the OP knew that the immigrants would automatically side with the nationalists.

I would have thought that (first generation anyway) immigrants would be neutral on the subject to try and avoid taking sides, but I think you're right, especially among the less educated there seems to be a tendency for people in NI to try and categorise each other.
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17-05-2013, 11:30   #42
Deedsie
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I was actually reading a debate elsewhere about the demographics of Northern Ireland shifting in favour of the nationalists/Catholics with all the Eastern Europeans moving in over the past decade and someone, quite rightly, asked how the OP knew that the immigrants would automatically side with the nationalists.

I would have thought that (first generation anyway) immigrants would be neutral on the subject to try and avoid taking sides, but I think you're right, especially among the less educated there seems to be a tendency for people in NI to try and categorise each other.
Oh totally, and not just among the less educated... You have to be tagged and have your colours put on the mast... There is a significant minority that are pulling away from this carry on, but I have friends from Tyrone who for example would only shop in their sides shops etc...

To be fair it's easy for us to look down our noses at those crazy nordies... If we had gone through anything like the struggle they went through our society would be just as divided...

We are good to label down here to... Pavee's, boggers, proddie's, culchies, Gah heads... Rugger heads, D4's, nordies, tans... etc etc...

Is free staters really that odd a label if it was slotted into that list?
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17-05-2013, 13:45   #43
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I know a few people from the north who loath the defense forces, even a mention of the term "defense forces" gets one of them in particular into a rage and he goes on about how they were no where to be seen over the decades when there were Irish people who actually needed defending yet could swan off to Africa and the middle east. I can see his point to be honest, he was interned, a bunch of his cousins and brother were murdered by british forces or loyalists. Plus then you have the whole army beatings, abuse, raids etc. He's not a solitary example.
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20-05-2013, 14:36   #44
Gott
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I know a few people from the north who loath the defense forces, even a mention of the term "defense forces" gets one of them in particular into a rage and he goes on about how they were no where to be seen over the decades when there were Irish people who actually needed defending yet could swan off to Africa and the middle east. I can see his point to be honest, he was interned, a bunch of his cousins and brother were murdered by british forces or loyalists. Plus then you have the whole army beatings, abuse, raids etc. He's not a solitary example.
In fairness to serving members, who I know are quite dedicated and well trained, the Irish Army is in no position to conventionally defend Ireland, let alone invade the UK which had, at the time and still has, far superior naval, air, and land power and the means to project it.

Though during the riots in 1969 they did consider it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exercise_Armageddon

While the intention was good, I can only imagine what sort of curbstomp battle would have resulted when the Brits got their sh*t together and responded.
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26-05-2013, 13:26   #45
nuac
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Any invasion would have been a military and political disaster.

I trained in the FCÁ in the fifties. WW1 weapons and tactics . The .303 Lee Enfield was a good weapon in it's time, but it's time had passed
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