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tefl or tesol in china

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    #92
    daithimacgroin
    Registered Users Posts: 193 ✭✭daithimacgroin


    7 more like it


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    #93
    intellectual dosser
    Registered Users Posts: 1,826 ✭✭✭intellectual dosser


    I spent a few months in Hangzhou - one of the best times of my life - anyone on the thread ever puke their hoop up outside Maya Bar? I made it all too frequent.
    I wasnt there to teach but got offered a few odd jobs teaching English, I turned them down - I was lucky enough not to need them at the time.


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    #94
    Mr. Loverman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,001 ✭✭✭Mr. Loverman


    daithimacgroin wrote: »
    7 more like it

    Are you replying to me?

    If so, everyone I know started on at least 12k. Some on 15k - 20k.

    Anyone starting on less money is not negotiating properly.


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    #95
    daithimacgroin
    Registered Users Posts: 193 ✭✭daithimacgroin


    that may be all the people u know,

    but saying 12,000rmb is the average starting salary for esl in beijing is a gross misstatement.

    in a training center, it very well may be, but that figure would not include an apartment.

    for a college, the average starting salary is closer to 7.

    and don't give me that guff about negotiation, most schools will rather find someone who'll accept their offer than deal with a tough negotiator, there is no lack of supply of english-speaking foreigners in china.

    if anyone is considering China, I'd say think again, because ESL wages have in no way kept up with inflation in the last 3 years especially


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    #96
    Mr. Loverman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,001 ✭✭✭Mr. Loverman


    Of course I am excluding accommodation. Any job that offers you accommodation is offering you a bad deal! Teaching in China 101.

    12k minimum in Beijing without accommodation. Anything less and you are not selling yourself properly.


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    #97
    daithimacgroin
    Registered Users Posts: 193 ✭✭daithimacgroin


    dunno about that, offered accommodation is usually less stressful, when anything breaks down, u just put pressure on your school to fix it, rather than having to pay for some tradesman to come over, and u dont have to worry about bills etc


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    #98
    Mr. Loverman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,001 ✭✭✭Mr. Loverman


    I agree it is useful if you are coming to China on your own, don't know Chinese, etc.

    I came here, went to thebeijinger.com and found an apartment, and asked on thebeijinger.com how do I pay my bills etc. You can pay most of the bills at an ATM machine!

    My friend arrived here and did the same. With no teaching experience she started on 15k (12k + bonus I believe). After a year is on 20k.

    The thing is the schools know they are dealing with amateurs (sorry, don't know what other word to use) when the person asks for accommodation, so they know they can low ball them.


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    #99
    R.D. aka MR.D
    Registered Users Posts: 2,643 ✭✭✭R.D. aka MR.D


    Hi all!

    I'm currently in Korea. My boyfriend (American) and I want to go to China.

    He has over 2 years teaching experience and I will have just under 2 years and a CELTA.

    I obviously know it is going to be a step down in terms of money and comfort from Korea but I want to make sure I end up in a decent place.

    What is the best way to start my search?

    I've dealt with my fair share of shady recruiters here so I assume there are an equal amount in China. Has anyone got any tips on what to look out for?

    Also, is it realistic to think that I can organise everything I need to get to China without returning to Ireland?


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    #100
    Mr. Loverman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,001 ✭✭✭Mr. Loverman


    Pick a city and then use that cities expat website, e.g. thebeijinger.com

    Some schools have more "guanxi" than other schools, so you may or may not have to go back to Ireland for your visa. It depends on the school. If you're lucky a trip to Hong Kong is all it'll take.

    Have you been to China before? It's a big step down in terms of comfort.


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    #101
    R.D. aka MR.D
    Registered Users Posts: 2,643 ✭✭✭R.D. aka MR.D


    Mr. Loverman wrote: »
    Pick a city and then use that cities expat website, e.g. thebeijinger.com

    Some schools have more "guanxi" than other schools, so you may or may not have to go back to Ireland for your visa. It depends on the school. If you're lucky a trip to Hong Kong is all it'll take.

    Have you been to China before? It's a big step down in terms of comfort.

    No, haven't been to China. I have lived in South America before so not afraid of the challenge.
    Korea is easier to live in than Ireland most of the time. It's really great so don't get me wrong but a tad bland.

    My boyfriend is thinking Shanghai but would Bejing be more exciting/less expensive?


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    #102
    Mr. Loverman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,001 ✭✭✭Mr. Loverman


    China really is a big step down. You're going to be shocked...

    Beijing has a better nightlife, but Shanghai is probably the nicest city in China apart from Hong Kong and Macau. Shanghai actually is quite nice.

    Beijing is poor and a little backwards (it's where all the uneducated farmers types go to find work -- sorry if that sounds bad) so it presents challenges which aren't as common in Shanghai. But it is interesting and a total mind f*ck. Be aware many expats cannot handle Beijing. Most just complain about the place.

    If I were you I'd pick Shanghai. More English speakers, more European (parts feel unbelievably European), and you can have the full blown China experience if you want.

    Both cities can be as cheap or as expensive as you want. I live a complete western lifestyle in Beijing so I spend a lot.


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    #103
    Lanaier
    Registered Users Posts: 604 ✭✭✭Lanaier


    Mr. Loverman wrote: »

    If I were you I'd pick Shanghai. More English speakers, more European (parts feel unbelievably European),


    I hate to be "that guy" but if those are good points about a city in Asia then why not just go to Europe?

    Also, if my memory serves 12k was definitely above average for someone starting in Beijing with no prior experience.

    Maybe times have changed.


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    #104
    Mr. Loverman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,001 ✭✭✭Mr. Loverman


    I know what you're saying about Shanghai having a European vibe, but in reality most people come to Asia all excited thinking they're going to live an Asian lifestyle, but after a while they realise they'd rather have at most a part-time Asian lifestyle. Having Western comforts definitely makes emigration easier.

    Even though Shanghai has lots of European architecture and shops, you are still in China.

    Lots of people start on less than 12k in Beijing, but that's because they are underselling themselves. Everyone I know who demanded more than 12k got it. Chinese school cannot get English teachers. My friend asked for 15k and got it. No prior experience!


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    #105
    Oranage2
    Registered Users Posts: 11,131 ✭✭✭✭Oranage2


    Does any one know anything about DD Dragon English School in Hangzhou City, also whats the city like?


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    #106
    Oranage2
    Registered Users Posts: 11,131 ✭✭✭✭Oranage2


    Also what type of questions do they ask you in a skype interview.


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    #107
    Mr. Loverman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,001 ✭✭✭Mr. Loverman


    Hangzhou is nice by Chinese standards. One of the nicer places in the country.

    You already meet the requirements for a job: white, native English speaker, and presumably you have a degree.

    The want to be sure you will commit, will stay in China, have no bad habits (tell them you don't drink!)... basically you have the job unless you come across as a total freak.

    How package are they offering?


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    #108
    Oranage2
    Registered Users Posts: 11,131 ✭✭✭✭Oranage2


    Mr. Loverman wrote: »
    Hangzhou is nice by Chinese standards. One of the nicer places in the country.

    You already meet the requirements for a job: white, native English speaker, and presumably you have a degree.

    The want to be sure you will commit, will stay in China, have no bad habits (tell them you don't drink!)... basically you have the job unless you come across as a total freak.

    How package are they offering?


    Cheers for that man.



    The details of our School are listed below:

    1.The students ages range from about 3-14.
    2.Every class has a maximum of 15 students.
    3.You only teach 25hours a week
    4.We offer a free furnished single apartment. （The apartment includes: a bedroom, a living room, a bathroom , a Kitchen, a microwave, a refrigerator ,some furniture etc. Attached is a sample of the apartment.)
    5.All curricula and teaching materials are provided
    6.We will apply for your working visa etc.

    All positions at DD Dragon include:

    1. a salary of RMB9,000 per month
    2. overtime pay for teaching more than 25 hours per week
    3. free apartment
    4. one week of paid vacation
    5. a contract completion bonus
    6. one year contract


    What you think of that?


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    #109
    Mr. Loverman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,001 ✭✭✭Mr. Loverman


    Excluding the apartment you would get about double that in Beijing.

    Hangzhou is not a cheap city (it's where rich Chinese party) so the salary is a little low perhaps... but it's not a terrible deal at all.

    Can they actually get you a work visa? Or is it a business visa?


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    #110
    Oranage2
    Registered Users Posts: 11,131 ✭✭✭✭Oranage2


    its says business visa in the contract. what's the difference between them.


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    #111
    Mr. Loverman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,001 ✭✭✭Mr. Loverman


    Oranage2 wrote: »
    its says business visa in the contract. what's the difference between them.

    This means the company aren't legally allowed hire foreigners, so you would be working there illegally.

    If the police raided the school, you could get in trouble.

    Lots of people teach English using business visas and have no problems (because they've never been caught), but you need to be aware you are working using a dodgy visa.


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    #112
    Oranage2
    Registered Users Posts: 11,131 ✭✭✭✭Oranage2


    Mr. Loverman wrote: »
    This means the company aren't legally allowed hire foreigners, so you would be working there illegally.

    If the police raided the school, you could get in trouble.

    Lots of people teach English using business visas and have no problems (because they've never been caught), but you need to be aware you are working using a dodgy visa.

    From what I Googled they seem a little cowboy. I'll see how the interview goes and play it by ear.


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    #113
    Mr. Loverman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,001 ✭✭✭Mr. Loverman


    Oranage2 wrote: »

    From what I Googled they seem a little cowboy. I'll see how the interview goes and play it by ear.

    Once you have a business visa and are in China, it's very easy to change jobs. But be aware it is very difficult to change a business visa to a work permit. You would be better off working using a tourist visa as these can be changed into work permits.

    If I were you I would tell them you don't want the apartment. This means you will get a higher wage and can leave the job without the risk of becoming homeless. You can stay in a hostel for the first week or two when you arrive while you look for accommodation. I recommend you use couchsurfing.org to meet people who can help you with this.


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    #114
    Oranage2
    Registered Users Posts: 11,131 ✭✭✭✭Oranage2


    Mr. Loverman wrote: »
    Once you have a business visa and are in China, it's very easy to change jobs. But be aware it is very difficult to change a business visa to a work permit. You would be better off working using a tourist visa as these can be changed into work permits.

    If I were you I would tell them you don't want the apartment. This means you will get a higher wage and can leave the job without the risk of becoming homeless. You can stay in a hostel for the first week or two when you arrive while you look for accommodation. I recommend you use couchsurfing.org to meet people who can help you with this.

    cool I'll try push for more money alright. how serious do they take breaking a contract?


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    #115
    Mr. Loverman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,001 ✭✭✭Mr. Loverman


    Oranage2 wrote: »
    cool I'll try push for more money alright. how serious do they take breaking a contract?

    The fact that you are just using a business visa (no experts certificate required, no degree required, no residency permit, etc.) means you can just walk. Their only punishment would be withholding wages.

    They will probably do something sneaky like withhold half of your first months wage or something as a deposit you get back at the end of your contract.

    Why don't you just come to China on a tourist visa and get a job here?


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    #116
    Oranage2
    Registered Users Posts: 11,131 ✭✭✭✭Oranage2


    Mr. Loverman wrote: »
    The fact that you are just using a business visa (no experts certificate required, no degree required, no residency permit, etc.) means you can just walk. Their only punishment would be withholding wages.

    They will probably do something sneaky like withhold half of your first months wage or something as a deposit you get back at the end of your contract.

    Why don't you just come to China on a tourist visa and get a job here?

    Yeah that's what Im planning, just I wanted to sus it out a bit, I'm flying to Hong Kong Tuesday.

    how long a tourist visa can I get for China and how long does it take to get one from Hong Kong if you know. also what city is best to look for, after a bit of research I think shanghai probably is what looks best, any suggestions yourself?


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    #117
    Mr. Loverman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,001 ✭✭✭Mr. Loverman


    You are not guaranteed to get a tourist visa in HK! I know of people who have been refused a visa recently, although you can pay an agency (shady...) to get you one, but it is expensive.

    You can get a job anywhere, so just pick a city you like the sounds of...


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    #118
    Oranage2
    Registered Users Posts: 11,131 ✭✭✭✭Oranage2


    Mr. Loverman wrote: »
    You are not guaranteed to get a tourist visa in HK! I know of people who have been refused a visa recently, although you can pay an agency (shady...) to get you one, but it is expensive.

    You can get a job anywhere, so just pick a city you like the sounds of...

    Oh I didnt know that but I did get a chinese visa in Hong kong about ten years ago so not sure if that makes a difference.

    Whats the best thing to do for finding a job. Just look online or the local paper listings?

    Also how expensive is china compared to other places in say south east asia like thailand or vietnam?


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    #119
    Mr. Loverman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,001 ✭✭✭Mr. Loverman


    Regarding the visa, you'll be fine. Worst case scenario you pay a dodgy agency...

    There are jobs everywhere. Use the local expat websites (e.g. thebeijinger.com) or dave's ESL cafe, etc.

    China is quite expensive compared to Vietnam etc., but it depends entirely on your lifestyle. I live nearly 100% western... same prices as Ireland. Maybe more expensive actually...


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    #120
    Oranage2
    Registered Users Posts: 11,131 ✭✭✭✭Oranage2


    ha yeah, looking for accomadation in shenzhen and its not cheap alright, got my visa so gonna head there tomorrow or the next day, cheers man for all the help


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    #121
    Draper666
    Registered Users Posts: 38 ✭Draper666


    Was thinking of heading over to Yangshuo in South meself to learn here http://www.omeida.com.cn/Meals/ and get a job I was in China a while back and have a few mates from what I have seen its pretty easy to get business visas and look for work and that but some people say its really strict . Any ideas on Yangshuo?


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