Boards.ie uses cookies. By continuing to browse this site you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Click here to find out more x
Post Reply  
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
24-10-2020, 07:41   #136
chuck eastwood
Registered User
 
chuck eastwood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 418
Quote:
Originally Posted by L'prof View Post
I went with a different company under the same scheme and am very happy with it. I previously had a Nest Thermostat but that was either everything on or everything off. I should have been able to control the hot water and rads separately by a switch on the boiler but the controls were bust. The new system installed can control upstairs, downstairs and hot water individually. This is a huge improvement for me. The only slight inconvenience is that I can’t control my heating with any of the smart assistants, just it’s one dedicated app
Can you DM me the name of the company or the controller they use. I have a stove on my system wired up with a systemlink. Works really well but no app control
chuck eastwood is offline  
Advertisement
24-10-2020, 07:44   #137
deezell
Registered User
 
deezell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,733
Send a message via Skype™ to deezell
Sounds like the Ember 3 zone controller? Proper zone controller, remote access, not 'smart' as you say, but a good start from a reputable company.
deezell is offline  
24-10-2020, 07:48   #138
L'prof
Registered User
 
L'prof's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,597
Quote:
Originally Posted by deezell View Post
Sounds like the Ember 3 zone controller? Proper zone controller, remote access, not 'smart' as you say, but a good start from a reputable company.
This is the one. I’ll send on the installer info if I can find it
L'prof is online now  
24-10-2020, 07:50   #139
chuck eastwood
Registered User
 
chuck eastwood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 418
Quote:
Originally Posted by deezell View Post
Sounds like the Ember 3 zone controller? Proper zone controller, remote access, not 'smart' as you say, but a good start from a reputable company.
I'll check that out. I don't need a smart controller to learn schedules etc. We both work changing shifts and I just want something that can control each zone remotely
chuck eastwood is offline  
24-10-2020, 07:58   #140
deezell
Registered User
 
deezell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,733
Send a message via Skype™ to deezell
This Drayton Kit 3 is a step up from the Ember, very full featured, but in a simple package with your 3 zone wall controller, a cinch to wire in. Aleca/Google capable also. It should cost no more than the Ember kit, and can be used in a grant aided install.
https://www.screwfix.ie/p/drayton-he...trol-kit/4081v
deezell is offline  
Advertisement
25-10-2020, 01:22   #141
jimmycrackcorm
Registered User
 
jimmycrackcorm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 12,987
Quote:
Originally Posted by deezell View Post
Now when you say 'the supply to the rads turned off' I'm assuming that is achieved by simply programming the Climote CH schedule off? If you mean that you have to physically turn each rad valve off, then you haven't even got the most basic of grant eligible systems, the ability the heat the HW only without mechanical intervention. In this case you'll end up programming the hub for CH but with closed rads just to get HW.
If you can currently turn off the CH schedule and just use the HW schedule without radiators heating, then don't change from this to a useless hub controller.
If you want to upgrade, not downgrade, get a Tado+HW kit. Hive 2 zone or Drayton Kit 2.. all streets ahead in terms of features, and with optional smart individual radiator control by adding TRVs later. If you can't heat HW only without the rads being closed off manually this is where your grant money should be going, the installation of zone valves, but this is a real energy efficiency measure, requiring a bit of real work and upgrade, not a paper exercise justification for claiming taxpayers money for pretend energy improvement measures.
But turning off the rad supply I mean in the summer I turn off the hot water feed at the hot water tank so it doesn't go to the radiators. The hot water tank thermostat is what is then determining the temperature when the boiler cuts out for the water zone in climote.

If either hearing or water zones are active then the radiators heat up unless the water supply to the radiators is cut off. So it sounds like with the hub controller that during the summer if I want hot water then I need to set the temperature higher to get it to activate to heat the water. I.e. the money house night have a normal ambient temperature as required and never hear the water unless I set it high or override.

I believe my hot water should actually be independent as there is a Danfoss controller sitting on the pipe with together with them tank thermostat, and I think it's not working.

That sounds like a crazy way to operate.

Last edited by jimmycrackcorm; 25-10-2020 at 01:37.
jimmycrackcorm is offline  
25-10-2020, 01:24   #142
jimmycrackcorm
Registered User
 
jimmycrackcorm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 12,987
Quote:
Originally Posted by deezell View Post
This Drayton Kit 3 is a step up from the Ember, very full featured, but in a simple package with your 3 zone wall controller, a cinch to wire in. Aleca/Google capable also. It should cost no more than the Ember kit, and can be used in a grant aided install.
https://www.screwfix.ie/p/drayton-he...trol-kit/4081v
How can I get this via a grant aided install? I could probably install it myself but otherwise do you need to get an approved installer and pay up front then claim back, or are there installers taking care of the while process?
jimmycrackcorm is offline  
25-10-2020, 06:27   #143
deezell
Registered User
 
deezell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,733
Send a message via Skype™ to deezell

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmycrackcorm View Post
How can I get this via a grant aided install? I could probably install it myself but otherwise do you need to get an approved installer and pay up front then claim back, or are there installers taking care of the while process?
Long reply warning!!
Firstly, this kit is for a properly functioning 3 zone system, upstairs CH, downstairs CH and HW, which is not yours.
If you had a working zoned system, 2 or 3 zones, and if you can find someone like the installer referred to earlier who done the Ember install for L'prof, it's just a case of asking for the different controller, and if he's up front about the cost of his preferred kit (Ember), then I see no reason that you shouldn't be able to ask for the Drayton, it's design is almost identical to the Ember.
That's the theory, but many of these guys stick to what they know. It's little wonder then that quotes are so high for grant aided work, net if grant, that you end up just doing a DIY job.
In your case you already have a botched system, as you have a two zone controller which is connected to a single Zone system, which may be a two Zone as it has a valve. Either the valve is faulty, or the installation of the Climote was botched. Who installed that? Was it another offer you received from an electric utility? Prior to the Climote, what did you have? Did HW work without without heating the rads? This needs to be sorted first, rather than adding an even more useless stat to your system.
Unfortunately, all these offers involve nothing more than swapping whatever stat you have for the offer one. They will never address your system configuration, and figure out what you already have, single zone, gravity two zone, pumped, zone valve(s) etc. They will swap a pair of wires and leg it.
IF you can get your system plumbing sorted, to at least give you individual zoning of CH and HW only without resorting to manually closing valves, then you can have the Climote working as it should. With this, you can then inquire about fitting (possibly with grant), a proper smart two zone system, such as the two zone version of the Drayton I linked earlier, whic is only €144, https://www.screwfix.ie/p/drayton-he...trol-kit/9575v
Other options are Tado, Nest, Hive, all capable of switching a 2 zone valved system.
Tbh, you'll need to find a genuine competent person to first examine your system and sort out your zoning. Many older systems consisted of a mechanical timer which just fired the boiler for everything, HW and CH, and then a wall stat which either turned on a circulation pump for CH, or a zone valve if the pump was already on constantly when the boiler fired. Adding a two zone controller to such a setup was beyond most installers, as they are generally designed for a fully independent 2 valve (S plan) or changeover valve (Y plan) system, not the cruder HW always, CH on a stat system I described. Some two zone controllers such asTado can cope with the wiring required to operate a gravity two zone, where HW is always heated, but CH is controlled by either the pump or a single valve. Wiring this correctly requires a little more know how than just swapping the old stat for the new controller stat, which may be what happened when the Climote was installed.
deezell is offline  
25-10-2020, 08:42   #144
L'prof
Registered User
 
L'prof's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,597
Quote:
Originally Posted by deezell View Post
Long reply warning!!
Firstly, this kit is for a properly functioning 3 zone system, upstairs CH, downstairs CH and HW, which is not yours.
If you had a working zoned system, 2 or 3 zones, and if you can find someone like the installer referred to earlier who done the Ember install for L'prof, it's just a case of asking for the different controller, and if he's up front about the cost of his preferred kit (Ember), then I see no reason that you shouldn't be able to ask for the Drayton, it's design is almost identical to the Ember.
That's the theory, but many of these guys stick to what they know. It's little wonder then that quotes are so high for grant aided work, net if grant, that you end up just doing a DIY job.
In your case you already have a botched system, as you have a two zone controller which is connected to a single Zone system, which may be a two Zone as it has a valve. Either the valve is faulty, or the installation of the Climote was botched. Who installed that? Was it another offer you received from an electric utility? Prior to the Climote, what did you have? Did HW work without without heating the rads? This needs to be sorted first, rather than adding an even more useless stat to your system.
Unfortunately, all these offers involve nothing more than swapping whatever stat you have for the offer one. They will never address your system configuration, and figure out what you already have, single zone, gravity two zone, pumped, zone valve(s) etc. They will swap a pair of wires and leg it.
IF you can get your system plumbing sorted, to at least give you individual zoning of CH and HW only without resorting to manually closing valves, then you can have the Climote working as it should. With this, you can then inquire about fitting (possibly with grant), a proper smart two zone system, such as the two zone version of the Drayton I linked earlier, whic is only €144, https://www.screwfix.ie/p/drayton-he...trol-kit/9575v
Other options are Tado, Nest, Hive, all capable of switching a 2 zone valved system.
Tbh, you'll need to find a genuine competent person to first examine your system and sort out your zoning. Many older systems consisted of a mechanical timer which just fired the boiler for everything, HW and CH, and then a wall stat which either turned on a circulation pump for CH, or a zone valve if the pump was already on constantly when the boiler fired. Adding a two zone controller to such a setup was beyond most installers, as they are generally designed for a fully independent 2 valve (S plan) or changeover valve (Y plan) system, not the cruder HW always, CH on a stat system I described. Some two zone controllers such asTado can cope with the wiring required to operate a gravity two zone, where HW is always heated, but CH is controlled by either the pump or a single valve. Wiring this correctly requires a little more know how than just swapping the old stat for the new controller stat, which may be what happened when the Climote was installed.
I’d just like to add that I didn’t have a zoned system before the the installer came to my house. That was an upgrade as part of the install
L'prof is online now  
Advertisement
25-10-2020, 09:22   #145
deezell
Registered User
 
deezell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,733
Send a message via Skype™ to deezell
Quote:
Originally Posted by L'prof View Post
I’d just like to add that I didn’t have a zoned system before the the installer came to my house. That was an upgrade as part of the install
So your upgrade was a proper plumbed 3 zone upgrade, plus a decent electronic internet app controller. That's worthy of the grant. Can you indicate what the total cost was after grant? People really need to know whats needed, these 'Free' upgrades are a con, and are disqualifying people from later getting a proper grant aided installation like yours.
deezell is offline  
Thanks from:
26-10-2020, 21:25   #146
jimmycrackcorm
Registered User
 
jimmycrackcorm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 12,987
Quote:
Originally Posted by deezell View Post
Long reply warning!!
Firstly, this kit is for a properly functioning 3 zone system, upstairs CH, downstairs CH and HW, which is not yours.
If you had a working zoned system, 2 or 3 zones, and if you can find someone like the installer referred to earlier who done the Ember install for L'prof, it's just a case of asking for the different controller, and if he's up front about the cost of his preferred kit (Ember), then I see no reason that you shouldn't be able to ask for the Drayton, it's design is almost identical to the Ember.
That's the theory, but many of these guys stick to what they know. It's little wonder then that quotes are so high for grant aided work, net if grant, that you end up just doing a DIY job.
In your case you already have a botched system, as you have a two zone controller which is connected to a single Zone system, which may be a two Zone as it has a valve. Either the valve is faulty, or the installation of the Climote was botched. Who installed that? Was it another offer you received from an electric utility? Prior to the Climote, what did you have? Did HW work without without heating the rads? This needs to be sorted first, rather than adding an even more useless stat to your system.
Unfortunately, all these offers involve nothing more than swapping whatever stat you have for the offer one. They will never address your system configuration, and figure out what you already have, single zone, gravity two zone, pumped, zone valve(s) etc. They will swap a pair of wires and leg it.
IF you can get your system plumbing sorted, to at least give you individual zoning of CH and HW only without resorting to manually closing valves, then you can have the Climote working as it should. With this, you can then inquire about fitting (possibly with grant), a proper smart two zone system, such as the two zone version of the Drayton I linked earlier, whic is only €144, https://www.screwfix.ie/p/drayton-he...trol-kit/9575v
Other options are Tado, Nest, Hive, all capable of switching a 2 zone valved system.
Tbh, you'll need to find a genuine competent person to first examine your system and sort out your zoning. Many older systems consisted of a mechanical timer which just fired the boiler for everything, HW and CH, and then a wall stat which either turned on a circulation pump for CH, or a zone valve if the pump was already on constantly when the boiler fired. Adding a two zone controller to such a setup was beyond most installers, as they are generally designed for a fully independent 2 valve (S plan) or changeover valve (Y plan) system, not the cruder HW always, CH on a stat system I described. Some two zone controllers such asTado can cope with the wiring required to operate a gravity two zone, where HW is always heated, but CH is controlled by either the pump or a single valve. Wiring this correctly requires a little more know how than just swapping the old stat for the new controller stat, which may be what happened when the Climote was installed.
I'm almost certain that the Danfos HP-22 motorized valve isn't working. The climote is able to control the CH and water zones separately and based on their respective thermostat settings. I deduced that it's the Danfoss because in the summer I turn off the manual lever that is inline just after that so it looks to me that the purpose of that valve is to shut off the central heating supply when the water zone is active.

I requested cancellation of the hub controller anyway as there's no point losing out on the two zones I have when at some point I can look at the HP22 to see if the valve is stuck or the motor is burnt out and needs replacing.

What I really want in a replacement is a smart controller that not only will manage the heating temperature better, but also send me notifications, or I can track when it is turned on/off. Because I have a lodger who has a habit of turning on the heat in the middle of the night. I can check the Climote app to see if it is on, but I'd want to get some better tracking to know when I'm not asleep.
jimmycrackcorm is offline  
26-10-2020, 22:48   #147
deezell
Registered User
 
deezell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,733
Send a message via Skype™ to deezell
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmycrackcorm View Post
I'm almost certain that the Danfos HP-22 motorized valve isn't working. The climote is able to control the CH and water zones separately and based on their respective thermostat settings. I deduced that it's the Danfoss because in the summer I turn off the manual lever that is inline just after that so it looks to me that the purpose of that valve is to shut off the central heating supply when the water zone is active.

I requested cancellation of the hub controller anyway as there's no point losing out on the two zones I have when at some point I can look at the HP22 to see if the valve is stuck or the motor is burnt out and needs replacing.

What I really want in a replacement is a smart controller that not only will manage the heating temperature better, but also send me notifications, or I can track when it is turned on/off. Because I have a lodger who has a habit of turning on the heat in the middle of the night. I can check the Climote app to see if it is on, but I'd want to get some better tracking to know when I'm not asleep.
Get that valve fixed, and the Tado would be perfect for you. As you only have a single valve in the CH flow, your system would appear to be configured for gravity mode. The wiring options for A two zone controller are a little different in gravity mode, and there are further differences between CH via pump, or CH via a valve. The valve has its own relay which closes when the valve opens, and this used to signal the boiler to fire for CH. In this instance, the live from the controller for HW ON goes straight to the boiler to fire it, the live for CH ON goes to the valve, which opens the flow and the closes the relay to fire the boiler. I'm curious as to why you boiler fires for CH if the valve is stuck. If stuck open, it would
keep firing the boiler continuously, but if stuck closed, then no CH.
It's possible that you Climote's two seperate zone live outputs have just been connected together to fire the boiler. In this case a live from the HW terminal is going to open the valve as well as a live from the CH terminal. This is why the valve has a relay, so that it can send a live to the boiler to fire it, but if the boiler call terminal is already live from another zone calling it (HW or CH2), this live will not feed back to the other zone and open it's valve. This logic is lost on some installers, who will happily join 2 or 3 zone ON terminals at the boiler, without realising this turns the system into a single zone, with any timer turning on all zones.
You need to check if that zone valve is opening, has it been mechanically locked open in service mode or is it stuck, and are there more than two wires connected to it, meaning it has an ON relay to fire the boiler. Get this sorted first, get two independent zones going, then you can consider better 2 zone smart stat systems.
deezell is offline  
Thanks from:
26-10-2020, 22:51   #148
L'prof
Registered User
 
L'prof's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,597
Quote:
Originally Posted by deezell View Post
So your upgrade was a proper plumbed 3 zone upgrade, plus a decent electronic internet app controller. That's worthy of the grant. Can you indicate what the total cost was after grant? People really need to know whats needed, these 'Free' upgrades are a con, and are disqualifying people from later getting a proper grant aided installation like yours.
Everything was included. I didn’t pay a thing
L'prof is online now  
26-10-2020, 23:12   #149
deezell
Registered User
 
deezell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,733
Send a message via Skype™ to deezell
Quote:
Originally Posted by L'prof View Post
Everything was included. I didn’t pay a thing
So a €700 grant covered a 3 zone controller, stats and 3 zone valves plus all the installation labour? I'm amazed.
deezell is offline  
26-10-2020, 23:55   #150
L'prof
Registered User
 
L'prof's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,597
Quote:
Originally Posted by deezell View Post
So a €700 grant covered a 3 zone controller, stats and 3 zone valves plus all the installation labour? I'm amazed.
I don’t know what the grant is worth but yeah, everything was covered. I think it was rads & hot water before but the hot water controller was broken so some cowboy had it wired to come on with the rads rather than fix it. Now there’s 3 brand new controllers so I can heat upstairs, downstairs and hot water independently
L'prof is online now  
Post Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Remove Text Formatting
Bold
Italic
Underline

Insert Image
Wrap [QUOTE] tags around selected text
 
Decrease Size
Increase Size
Please sign up or log in to join the discussion

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Share Tweet