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2019 The Year Of The Vegan?

24

Comments

  • #32
    YFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 9,717 ✭✭✭YFlyer


    gozunda wrote: »
    Really? "An anti vegan narrative" lol

    More like countering the pure bile and misinformation being directed at farming and the food industry by certain vegan lifestyle promoters imo. I wouldn't expect them to sit on their hands tbh considering some of the rubbish being put out there ..

    Hmm. If you think that.


  • #33
    c.p.w.g.w
    Registered Users Posts: 4,994 ✭✭✭c.p.w.g.w


    Unearthly wrote: »
    Without a doubt it's growing and becoming more mainstream

    The problem is that growing up the meat and dairy industry has such a stranglehold over our culture. When you tell people you are off meat and dairy, the 1st things they ask is where do you get protein etc.

    Now thanks to the internet there is so much nutritional information out there that people are finally seeing that you don't need meat and dairy to survive and if you do it right, your health improves. I've my own medical tests to prove this.

    A lot of people love animals (Just look at the amount of pets out there) so I think if people felt they had the option, they'd avoid having to eat animals. Growing up I had conditioned myself to separate the food I was eating and preferred not to think it was an animal in the 1st place.

    I get a lot of abuse and baiting about it, but again this is human psychology to mock what they see as different. The extremists don't help with their antics, I found it's much more helpful to calmly explain the different food options out there and the health benefits that go with it. People are far more receptive when not lectured about it

    Also saturated fats, omega 3, b12, selenium & zinc all found in high quantities with meat and dairy. Omega 3 from plant base is a poor form(ALA)


  • #34
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,856 ✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    gozunda wrote: »
    H It's not a matter of public relevance as far as I'm concerned.

    .

    When a sitting Taoiseach says something, it is a matter of public relevance, whether you like it, or not.


  • #35
    Unearthly
    Registered Users Posts: 7,981 ✭✭✭Unearthly


    c.p.w.g.w wrote: »
    Also saturated fats, omega 3, b12, selenium & zinc all found in high quantities with meat and dairy. Omega 3 from plant base is a poor form(ALA)

    What are you asking here? How vegans can get these?


  • #36
    Tar.Aldarion
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,082 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    c.p.w.g.w wrote: »
    Also saturated fats, omega 3, b12, selenium & zinc all found in high quantities with meat and dairy. Omega 3 from plant base is a poor form(ALA)
    Sign me up, ha!


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  • #37
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    When a sitting Taoiseach says something, it is a matter of public relevance, whether you like it, or not.

    Yeah funny it wasn't mentioned in the comment to which I replied was it now? And that's the point about that "as far as I'm concerned'
    YFlyer wrote: »
    Leo Varadkar mentioning about cutting back on meat consumption to lower the carbon footprint. There are some vile comments on Facebook.


  • #38
    Unearthly
    Registered Users Posts: 7,981 ✭✭✭Unearthly


    gozunda wrote: »
    Yeah funny it wasn't mentioned in your comment to which I replied was it now? And that's the point!



    Jaez theres some serious whataboutary going on altogether tonight ;)

    Gozunda you called him a hypocrite even though his quotes directly address the issue you had. It's not too late to just admit you didn't have the full picture


  • #39
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,856 ✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    gozunda wrote: »
    Yeah funny it wasn't mentioned in your comment to which I replied was it now? And that's the point 'as far as I'm concerned'!
    )

    What rubbish are you spouting? The only aspect of your original comment that I replied to was where you said that it wasn't a matter of public relevance what a sitting Taoiseach said - everything a sitting Taoiseach says, is a matter of public relevance and can have an impact on Irish society.


  • #40
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Unearthly wrote: »
    Gozunda you called him a hypocrite even though his quotes directly address the issue you had. It's not too late to just admit you didn't have the full picture

    Unearthly like it or otherwise - I'm not having an argument with ya. This is a discussion board. You can think of yourself as "right" all you like - whatever that's worth ...

    Btw there's is a difference in saying
    gozunda wrote: »
    Not really surprising considering the hypocrisy of that announcement tbh...
    and calling someone a hypocrite - but you already know that.

    Thanks for your input :)


  • #41
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    What rubbish are you spouting? The only aspect of your original comment that I replied to was where you said that it wasn't a matter of public relevance what a sitting Taoiseach said - everything a sitting Taoiseach says, is a matter of public relevance and can have an impact on Irish society.

    See above - Btw you must of missed the bit when I said "as far as I'm concerned". Oh and the comment to which I replied refered to Carbon Footprints btw.

    It was yer man Uneathly who appears to be "spouting some rubbish" (as you put it) about health. It might be best to ask him as I don't know what he is on about either.

    Goodnight


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  • #42
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Tar.Aldarion wrote: »
    Many people rescue cats and dogs because they would die otherwise, not for entertainment. There's a responsibility you have to take if your species domesticated another and they are dependent on you now. Lab grown meat will take away any ethical quandary for them in years to come.


    And of all those who rescue cats and dogs etc and don't have an ethical quandry?

    Surely it would be better for those with such quandaries to rescue stick insects or other organisms that eat plant matter and leave the obligate carnivores etc to those who can meet the dietary needs of those animals properly.


  • #43
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,856 ✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    gozunda wrote: »
    See above - Btw you must of missed the bit when I said "as far as I'm concerned". t

    Doesn't matter what you're "concerned with"- or what your "opinion" is- it's fact that what the Taoiseach says in public, has an affect on Irish society and affects public opinion. Whether you think it does or not, doesn't really matter.

    Nite nite.


  • #44
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Doesn't matter what you're "concerned with"- or what your "opinion" is- it's fact that what the Taoiseach says in public, has an affect on Irish society and affects public opinion. Whether you think it does or not, doesn't really matter. Nite nite.

    Thats the thing - if thats your opinion - fair enough. However in context you missed the carbon footprints and this bit. Thanks

    It was yer man Uneathly who appears to be "spouting some rubbish" (as you put it) about health. It might be best to ask him as I don't know what he is on about either.


  • #45
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,856 ✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    Unearthly wrote: »
    Leo also said he was also doing it for health reasons but let's not allow that get in the way of whataboutism

    The heat Leo got in the Dail about mentioning he eats less meat shows the cultural stranglehold meat and dairy has in our lives that i mentioned before
    gozunda wrote: »
    You missed the carbon footprints and this bit. Thanks

    It was yer man Uneathly who appears to be "spouting some rubbish" (as you put it) about health. It might be best to ask him as I don't know what he is on about either.

    I'd as happily disagree with his comment as with yours. You're both wrong. The people will decide- and that''s coming from a carnivore. There's a general progression towards better health, and that will mean less meat eating overall- and from a carnivore perspective, I welcome that, as long as it means better standards for animals overall - I know some people on this forum are absolutists and want all animals saved tomorrow- but that's not going to happen - I'm a realist not an idealist- but there are ways to achieve a lot of good in the short -term too.


  • #46
    Cartroubles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 61 ✭✭Cartroubles


    gozunda wrote: »
    Thats the thing - if thats your opinion - fair enough. However in context you missed the carbon footprints and this bit. Thanks

    It was yer man Uneathly who appears to be "spouting some rubbish" (as you put it) about health. It might be best to ask him as I don't know what he is on about either.

    In fairness you were caught out there, best hold your hands up and move on.

    The biggest hypocrisy I saw from Leo was that if he really believes eating less meat is necessary, why are we producing more meat than ever?


  • #47
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I'd as happily disagree with his comment as with yours. You're both wrong. The people will decide- and that''s coming from a carnivore. There's a general progression towards better health, and that will mean less meat eating overall- and from a carnivore perspective, I welcome that, as long as it means better standards for animals overall - I know some people on this forum are absolutists and want all animals saved tomorrow- but that's not going to happen - I'm a realist not an idealist- but there are ways to achieve a lot of good in the short -term too.

    Plenty - not to be smart - My comments only related to Carbon footprints. As per the original comment. Unfortunately it was dragged off into a spate of whataboutary. We can all be 'wrong' btw I don't disagree with you. I'll leave it there.


  • #48
    Unearthly
    Registered Users Posts: 7,981 ✭✭✭Unearthly


    gozunda wrote: »

    It was yer man Uneathly who appears to be "spouting some rubbish" (as you put it) about health. It might be best to ask him as I don't know what he is on about either.

    Just when I thought I was out, the Gozunda pulls me back in.

    Taoiseach makes comment about eating less meat. I'm assuming you hadn't read his full quotes and made a judgement it was a hypocritical comment. The full quotes show it wasn't.

    The health part was another reason he has decided to eat less meat (see taoiseach quotes). A very welcome decision by our leader and another hint that 2019 might be the year of the vegan. Great news Gozunda


  • #49
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Cartroubles wrote: »
    In fairness you were caught out there, best hold your hands up and move on.The biggest hypocrisy I saw from Leo was that if he really believes eating less meat is necessary, why are we producing more meat than ever?

    If you mean was there an attempt to drag my comment off about health lol? No can do - thanks all the same.

    I think that was more argument than a discussion imo But hey there you go. End of the story.

    Tbh the more I see of our glorious leaders intellectual wanderings - the less of a fan I am becoming ...


  • #50
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,856 ✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    gozunda wrote: »
    Tbh the more I see of our glorious leaders intellectual wanderings - the less of a fan I am becoming ...

    A healthy scepticism of whatever the “Leader” of the day says, can only be a good thing- he’s a politician after all is said and done.

    I don’t subscribe to veganism nor vegetarianism as an absolute way to live ones life. But I’m a carnivore with an appreciattion of all sides and willing to listen to reasoned argument, I don’t tolerate conspiracy theories from either side nor will I conform through force.


  • #51
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Unearthly wrote: »
    ....2019 might be the year of the vegan. Great news ...


    Ahh I checked that and it's looks like someone else has already booked the year :(

    https://i.imgflip.com/2r8qr7.jpg


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  • #52
    c.p.w.g.w
    Registered Users Posts: 4,994 ✭✭✭c.p.w.g.w


    Unearthly wrote: »
    What are you asking here? How vegans can get these?

    Yes these are items typically lacking in a vegans diet. Even in good vegan diets.

    B12 from nutritional yeast & spirulina seem to have very low bio-availability and some studies have even suggested they aren't utilized by the body at all.


  • #53
    davidjtaylor
    Registered Users Posts: 755 ✭✭✭davidjtaylor


    c.p.w.g.w wrote: »
    Yes these are items typically lacking in a vegans diet. Even in good vegan diets.

    Source, please. ‘Typically’ - you don’t know many vegans, do you? :o

    My B12, for instance, is average after 14 years veganism. Iron good, everything except vit.D in fact, a deficiency common to everyone.

    As for omega 3s, you have that wrong entirely. I want your peer-reviewed evidence for that.


  • #54
    Tar.Aldarion
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,082 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    I can search around at home and post a picture of a bloodtest showing I had too much B12 :D


  • #55
    Worztron
    Registered Users Posts: 8,663 ✭✭✭Worztron


    Space Dog wrote: »
    People also don't really need to own pets (unless someone depends on a service dog). So you're still contributing to factory farming because you want to own that car or dog for your entertainment.

    I don't have any pets.

    Mitch Hedberg: "Rice is great if you're really hungry and want to eat two thousand of something."



  • #56
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Worztron wrote: »
    I don't have any pets.

    Otherwise known by some vegans as "companion animals"? You mentioned having dog(s) at one stage no?

    Edit: apologies I was thinking about another poster.


  • #57
    Worztron
    Registered Users Posts: 8,663 ✭✭✭Worztron


    gozunda wrote: »
    Otherwise known by some vegans as "companion animals". You mentioned having dog(s) at one stage no?

    I don't think I ever mentioned here of any pets I've had. The most recent pets I had were 2 beautiful b&w cats - they are sadly gone over 12 years now.

    Mitch Hedberg: "Rice is great if you're really hungry and want to eat two thousand of something."



  • #58
    c.p.w.g.w
    Registered Users Posts: 4,994 ✭✭✭c.p.w.g.w


    davidjtaylor wrote: »
    As for omega 3s, you have that wrong entirely. I want your peer-reviewed evidence for that.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/9637947/

    Conversion rates of ALA to DHA and EPA


  • #59
    davidjtaylor
    Registered Users Posts: 755 ✭✭✭davidjtaylor


    c.p.w.g.w wrote: »
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/9637947/

    Conversion rates of ALA to DHA and EPA

    I’m not a scientist but this, significantly, jumps out of your article:
    with a background diet high in saturated fat


  • #60
    Tar.Aldarion
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,082 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    There is no consensus about a dietary requirement for DHA or EPA, only for omega-3s in general.
    c.p.w.g.w wrote: »
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/9637947/

    Conversion rates of ALA to DHA and EPA
    https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/92/5/1040/4597496 - vegans who consumed little or none DHA or EPA had higher levels than fish eaters
    “Average intake of EPA in vegan men was 0.009 ± 0.008g/d while men who consumed fish had an intake of 0.13 ± 0.16 g/d. Vegan men had plasma EPA levels of 65.1 ± 45.5 μmol/L while fish eating men only had 57.5 ± 43.2 μmol/L. Vegan women had a dietary intake of 0 g/d for DHA while fish-eating women had an intake of 0.15 ± 0.18 g/d. Yet, the DHA plasma levels were 286.4 ± 211.7 μmol/L for vegan women and only 271.2 ± 113.1 for fish-eating women.”
    The study above calls for an intervention study on specific populations, to discover why vegans, vegetarians, and non-fish-eaters have relatively similar EPA in plasma levels and why vegans have significantly more plasma DHA than any other group. The intervention studies to date are poorly designed since they assess the n-3 PUFA conversion capabilities of populations ill equipped to do so.

    A study on ALA conversion needs to account for people that eat no EPA/DHA and see their conversions, over people eating EPA/DHA and not needing to convert. It is suspected at this point that conversion of plant-based sources of n-3 PUFAs is significantly greater in populations with long-term low intake of pre-formed EPA and DHA. Because the interventional studies to date have taken fish-eaters and replaced n-3 PUFAs with ALA sources suddenly, this may be the reason for the lack of effective conversion.


    If particularly concerned you can get vegan EPA/DHA.


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  • #61
    pq0n1ct4ve8zf5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,070 ✭✭✭✭pq0n1ct4ve8zf5


    gozunda wrote: »
    Unearthly like it or otherwise - I'm not having an argument with ya. This is a discussion board. You can think of yourself as "right" all you like - whatever that's worth ...

    Btw there's is a difference in saying and calling someone a hypocrite - but you already know that.

    Thanks for your input :)

    Like I could say "oh my god the wrongness of these posts, the inability in these posts to admit to having made a mistake", but it doesn't mean I'm saying those things about you? Cool!

    Yeah veganism is definitely on the up, it seems pretty consistently. It's hit a sweet spot with a generation that is very interested in environmentalism, ethical consumerism and health, and thank goodness that time has come!

    I'm vegetarian since 1989, closer to vegan these days and I'm in HEAVEN the last few years with all the nice things to eat, not having to worry about going out to eat with a group and not getting constantly preached at. One of the most common things you'd get "Sure what's the point, you're not making any difference". HA!

    I'm honestly not sure about those vegan world billboards tbh, part of me thinks it's some black op thing by the meat industry. I have never seen a positive reaction to them by anyone who's not already a vegan, and I've seen so many negative ones. They're tone deaf altogether.


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