Aer Lingus Fleet/Routes Discussion

JCX BXC · 19-02-2015 9:46pm #1

The seat map for the B767-200 being leased by EI next year are available on the Aer Lingus website, the seating is 2,3,2 in economy (As was suspected) and 2,2,2 in business

There are 189 economy seats and 12 Business seats making a total of the reported 201 seats.

Anyone know whether the B767 will be repainted, partially or entirely, in the EI colours for the 6 months that its leased for?

b757 · 19-02-2015 9:47pm

Carnacalla wrote: »

The seat map for the B767-200 being leased by EI next year are available on the Aer Lingus website, the seating is 2,3,2 in economy (As was suspected) and 2,2,2 in business

There are 189 economy seats and 12 Business seats making a total of the reported 201 seats.

Anyone know whether the B767 will be repainted, partially or entirely, in the EI colours for the 6 months that its leased for?

3/4 Months now, white with EI titles.

Tenger · 19-02-2015 10:10pm

12 weeks is what was announced originally.

JCX BXC · 19-02-2015 10:17pm

Tenger wrote: »

12 weeks is what was announced originally.

You are correct, and Im very confused about this, but it appears that the B767 is being leased for 6 months rather than the 12 weeks that it will be utilised on the SNN-BOS route.

This Article says 12 weeks
http://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/32736-aer-lingus-to-wet-lease-a-b767-in-summer-2015

And

This newer article says June-December
http://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/34058-aer-lingus-settles-on-omni-air-for-b767-lease-requirements

Tenger · 19-02-2015 10:23pm

Carnacalla wrote: »

.....
This newer article says June-December
http://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/34058-aer-lingus-settles-on-omni-air-for-b767-lease-requirements

The extension of the B767 lease is based on the cancellation of the A332.
This article is the only source for the 'cancellation' of the planned lease of A332 MSN 330. (ex EI-EWR)

The A332 isn't supposed to be around till late March so we may have to wait and see if it does appear.

And the published EI schedule requires 8 aircraft ex-DUB (not including the 12 week early DUB-JFK route) and 2 aircraft out of SNN. So am not sure how the B767 will 'replace' the A330 ex DUB.

JCX BXC · 19-02-2015 10:26pm

Tenger wrote: »

The extension of the B767 lease is based on the cancellation of the A332.
This article is the only source for the 'cancellation of the lease of A332 MSN 330. (ex EI-EWR)

The A332 isn't supposed to be around till late March so we may have to wait and see if it does appear.

So, EI-EWR, that used to be in the fleet, am I correct? Was it being brought into service the new IAD route from DUB?

I really dont understand all this

Tenger · 19-02-2015 10:34pm

EI need 4 A330 to cover the daily departures. (105,109,137,123)
They need another 2 (ish) to cover the SFO and MCO routes. (147,121)
The last 2 cover the 3/4 weekly ORD, BOS and DUB-IAD. (125,139,129)

Its not that simple (a/c don't stick to only one route) but I had it worked out on paper a few weeks back.
52 weekly departures, with 7 most days, 8 departures on Wednesday.

It was supposed to be EI-EWR returning to EI service. The article you posted seemed to nix that. However no other info has come to light.
And the CH-Aviation article references Jethros which has been incorrect in the past.

Operationally introducing a B767 into DUB is adding complexity. Not compatible with the way EI shuffle their aircraft across most routes.

Preset No.3 · 19-02-2015 11:18pm

What is the J class product on the 767 like?

JCX BXC · 20-02-2015 12:07am

Another Web Fourm wrote:

Some interesting fleet changes planned for this Summer and over the next 2-3 years; the planned A330-200 for this Summer (EI-EWR) is apparently not going ahead, because EI is trying to source an A333.

Also, the A319 fleet will be down by one unit next year (apparently to be replaced by a 321), and the A319s will be completely gone by 2017.

No word at all about A330NEos. Fourth 757 looks likely by next Summer (2016).

I have sourced these from another fourm website. Interesting insight into the fleet changed for the next few years.

JCX BXC · 20-02-2015 12:25am

Preset No.3 wrote: »

What is the J class product on the 767 like?

http://beaerospace.com/products/seating-products/business-class/millennium/

These will be the J class seats used by Aer Lingus for the 767

Razor44 · 20-02-2015 12:28am

I assume it would be a 2nd hand A321 coming into the fleet?

JCX BXC · 20-02-2015 12:30am

Razor44 wrote: »

I assume it would be a 2nd hand A321 coming into the fleet?

Almost definitely. No formal order for an A321 has been made with Airbus AFAIK so it would be practically impossible to get a new one within a year.

Tenger · 20-02-2015 12:46am

I would expect to see EI-EWR ferried to BOD for refit and maintenance before we see it in SNN or DUB pre-lease. EI don't actually need it until April.
The CH-Aviation article states a Jun-Dec lease on the B767....this is 2 months after the EI SUmmer schedule commences,another reason to distrust their info.
DUB-IAD however starts May 1st

Carnacalla wrote: »

I have sourced these from another fourm website. Interesting insight into the fleet changed for the next few years

The number mentioned line up with what was announced by EI in their Sept update. It showed fleet make-up from now until 2020 (with "further leasing options as required" added to cover any change)
http://corporate.aerlingus.com/investorrelations/regulatorynews/2014pressreleases/AerLingus_september_analyst_presentation.pdf

Look at page 20 for longhal fleet plan. 4xB757/narrow body in 2016, rising to 5 in 2019.
8x A330 for 2015-2017, 3/6 A350/A330 in 2018, 6/3 in 2019, 9x A350 in 2020.

Page 22 has shorthaul fleet, 320/321/319
2015 looks like 29/3/4, looks to drop an A319 and gain an A321 in 2016.

Preset No.3 · 20-02-2015 1:27am

Why would they get rid of the 319's? I thought they were rather successful on some of the thinner routes and some of the low loads on the LHR-DUB route.

That plan does not make a lot of sense at all.

Crumbs868 · 20-02-2015 7:07am

Preset No.3 wrote: »

Why would they get rid of the 319's? I thought they were rather successful on some of the thinner routes and some of the low loads on the LHR-DUB route.

That plan does not make a lot of sense at all.

Hopefully it's the ex Iberia ones, on some sections the legroom is worse than a bus. Always see people complaining on it and flight attendants moving people around.

Can't understand why they don't just take a row out and adjust

arubex · 20-02-2015 9:57am

The 767-200 will be a pretty rare bird in scheduled passenger service when Aer Lingus starts using it.

I think the Air Italy I-AIGI has been grounded for some time.

Air Zimbabwe's pair are both still flying, mainly to and from South Africa.

Transaero's EI-CXZ is busy out in Thailand but 'CZD doesn't seem to have flown in several months.

May be one of the last chances to fly on the stubby model.

L1011 · 20-02-2015 10:40am

Crumbs868 wrote: »

Hopefully it's the ex Iberia ones, on some sections the legroom is worse than a bus. Always see people complaining on it and flight attendants moving people around.

Can't understand why they don't just take a row out and adjust

I believe all 4 are ex-Iberia. They realigned the seats from a business/economy spacing to even on the first two over their first winter but never did the second two. Didn't even lose a row.

JCX BXC · 20-02-2015 12:16pm

arubex wrote: »

The 767-200 will be a pretty rare bird in scheduled passenger service when Aer Lingus starts using it.

I think the Air Italy I-AIGI has been grounded for some time.

Air Zimbabwe's pair are both still flying, mainly to and from South Africa.

Transaero's EI-CXZ is busy out in Thailand but 'CZD doesn't seem to have flown in several months.

May be one of the last chances to fly on the stubby model.

Us airways have a few. Its often used on bru-phl.

highlydebased · 20-02-2015 1:02pm

Carnacalla wrote: »

Us airways have a few. Its often used on bru-phl.

Actually, US Airways retired them all last week!

JCX BXC · 20-02-2015 1:07pm

highlydebased wrote: »

Actually, US Airways retired them all last week!

Oh! No harm, they had no PTV's and were quite old. There was a us airways 767-200 in Shannon quite a few times last year. Often used as a replacement when the 757's were out of service.

How old are the Omni's?

arubex · 20-02-2015 1:32pm

Carnacalla wrote: »

How old are the Omni's?

2001, ex-Continental.

Connie displaced them with 757s.

Van.Bosch · 20-02-2015 3:35pm

I appreciate that airlines that over extend themselves and grow too fast can go out of business but EI seems to me to be getting traction on its DUB hub so I think its expansion plans are a little conservative. There are years in that attachment where they anticipate no fleet growth at all.

On the LH side i would think a few more routes from Dublin would help develop the hub, even if to code share partner hubs like Houston or Miami. They obviously have a lot more exposure to the data than me and perhaps they have eleceted to go very slow and steady.

For the S/H its more competitive ex Dublin so will be interesting to see the decision taken on the 4 returning from Virgin.

FridaysWell · 20-02-2015 3:51pm

Van.Bosch wrote: »

I appreciate that airlines that over extend themselves and grow too fast can go out of business but EI seems to me to be getting traction on its DUB hub so I think its expansion plans are a little conservative. There are years in that attachment where they anticipate no fleet growth at all.

I suppose that conservative approach can be explained by Aer Lingus looking to improve their fleet utilisation perhaps, and definitely improve their load factors on their existing routes.

Additionally, not everything could go according to the plan/strategy laid out in those documents. They may (hopefully) require fleet additions when they thought they didn't.

Tenger · 20-02-2015 5:52pm

I would agree with the opinion that it is conservative expansion. However this blueprint is in place following on from the unsustainable expansion by EI in 2006-2008. In 2009/2010 they pulled out of SFO, LAX and IAD, as well as scaling back their LGW and BFS base's.
In 2014 they relaunched DUB-SFO, DUB-IAD returns this June. However at this point they have a better business model in place with better cost base and load factoers. They are less reliance on the island economy that we live in.

And while the longhaul fleet may not be growing in numbers the introduction of the A350 (planned for 2018) will increase capacity, improve efficiency and upgrade the inflight product. (The expected introduction of the A321neo-LR will be a similar upgrade to the B757's)

Snow Leopard · 20-02-2015 8:39pm

With the continued macroeconomic uncertainty across much Europe, I think EI would be prudent to stick with the rather conservative plan they have. As Tenger mentioned above, the A350s will boost seat capacity and the latest wave of expansion will take some time to "bed in". As thinner routes (such as IAD for example) are added, EI will need to closely the examine their effect on routes that would have previously fed traffic to these cities (typically JFK and ORD).

JCX BXC · 20-02-2015 9:52pm

Surely if EI want to develop Dublin into a hub, they will expand into more U.S destinations? The market is back and stronger than before thanks to passengers transferring and using USPC, so routes that weren't viable back in say 2005, wouldn't these be more viable now? EG. LAX.

Also, I think EI should have a more aggressive short-haul expansion. Ryanair is adding several new routes each year, its only so long before they run circles around EI. Aer Lingus should try Russia and maybe Isreal before Ryanair do.

River Song · 21-02-2015 3:00am

arubex wrote: »

May be one of the last chances to fly on the stubby model.

I've been mulling over the thought of doing SNN-BOS-JFK-DUB coming back on the daytime flight. This might be more of an incentive to do that!

Tenger · 21-02-2015 9:50pm

Carnacalla wrote: »

Surely if EI want to develop Dublin into a hub, they will expand into more U.S destinations? The market is back and stronger than before thanks to passengers transferring and using USPC, so routes that weren't viable back in say 2005, wouldn't these be more viable now? EG. LAX....

LAX was profitable for EI, In 2009 it was cut as it was more efficient and cost effective to serve the East coast(over and back in under 24 hours)
Looking at the current situation it isn't that LAX is/isnt viable, its that SFO is more profitable. (especially with the low level of onboard service on it,the EI bean counters are loving that route)

JCX BXC · 21-02-2015 10:40pm

Tenger wrote: »

LAX was profitable for EI, In 2009 it was cut as it was more efficient and cost effective to serve the East coast(over and back in under 24 hours)
Looking at the current situation it isn't that LAX is/isnt viable, its that SFO is more profitable. (especially with the low level of onboard service on it,the EI bean counters are loving that route)

I know LAX is profitable, and I know that SFO and east coast destinations are probably more so. My point is that they should expand more rapididy and get LAX and other destinations going. They have increasing numbers of UK pax under their belt now so they might as well increase their business.

Maybe LAX isn't the best idea with Ethopian going on the route, but they certainly should launch more US and even Canadian routes.

Would Mexico city or maybe Cancun be viable?

Tenger · 21-02-2015 10:51pm

Well the new CEO ia very US-centric.

I cant see Mexico ever being an option for EI. Cancun would be seasonal at best, an relatively low yield compared to their East Coast routes.

I would hope to see 2-3 more routes to US/Canada in the next 3-4 years

JCX BXC · 21-02-2015 10:56pm

Tenger wrote: »

Well the new CEO ia very US-centric.

I cant see Mexico ever being an option for EI. Cancun would be seasonal at best, an relatively low yield compared to their East Coast routes.

I would hope to see 2-3 more routes to US/Canada in the next 3-4 years

For these routes, will they all be A330 or could a 757 or two be thrown in to service these?

Aer Lingus Fleet/Routes Discussion

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