Aer Lingus Cadetship 2013

paulmcgrath · 14-05-2013 1:33pm

GulDog wrote: »

Hi guys,

I applied to this the last time back in 2011 and only got as far as the psychometric testing. I was wondering does anyone know any good websites/books etc. to use in preparation for this test? Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Can you describe the then psychometric tests.

Could be able to provide help if I had a better idea on what you experienced.

basill · 14-05-2013 1:58pm

If anyone here is serious about getting onto a cadet scheme then they need to pull finger and start doing some serious research and stop looking for spoonfeeding. Facts and figures about a publicly listed company and readily available and free. A bit of googling will find you the corporate strategy.

For a start go onto pprune and in particular their wannabes section. There are loads of links to interview threads and websites with example psycho tests etc. Countless threads exist covering various airline recruiting methods and the types of questions asked. More important is to understand why a recruiter asks a certain question and to plan an appropriate answer in advance to give yourself the best chance of success. Amazon will have interview books that whilst not aviation related per se will cover all of this in detail.

Anyone with some flying hours had better bone up on the technical side and expect to be grilled. Again the types of questions that an interviewer might ask a low houred pilot are all out there on the internet.

The few that eventually get through won't have been spoonfed and will have all the requisite knowledge in order to demonstrate how badly they want the job.

Shamrock231 · 14-05-2013 2:14pm

Never hurts to ask, gotta take every advantage open to us Basill, and if that means trying to get a look in at what to expect in the psychometric tests straight from the horses mouth, then so be it...

doha · 14-05-2013 2:24pm

Alright lads

Dad's side from Monaghan, Mum's side from Stoke on Trent; Live in England but currently living (and in Sixth Form) abroad in Qatar.

Would having A Levels instead of Leaving Certificates put me at a disadvantage with AL?

Paxi_R6 · 14-05-2013 3:02pm

LeftBase wrote: »

This Cadetship offers an interesting little window in to the changing world of Irish Aviation.

Last time this started there were guys complaining about the 100s of Irish jet pilots who would take a demotion to get a job in Aer Lingus and how it was all so unfair on them. Why were Aer Lingus running a cadetship? Surely some of these guys must meet their standards? Were Aer Lingus just too aloof and wanted their own stock? Why invest so much in new pilots when there are 100s who would bite your hand off for a job?
These were all points raised...however this is a bit of a misjudgment of the actual playing field here.

Had you asked my opinion during the last cadetship I would have said the same as above and been equally mystified. However through actual introduction to commercial aviation and mixing with guys in their "first job" I have seen that this is not the way it is.
This group of Irish pilots(many with 3000h+ in Ryanair) who complain and are being seemingly passed over by Aer Lingus in favour of a cadetship are like a ship passing Aer Lingus HQ in the night. They desperately want to be in Aer Lingus but Aer Lingus dont want them. The main reason in many cases? Age!
But all jet pilots out there are not old men you say! This is true, however an airline like Aer Lingus wants guys young enough to be Captains some day and most of the currently employed guys out there with that potential have their eyes set on the left seat in the East. I know Irish guys in Ryanair who are not even considering Aer Lingus. I hold it as an onward option but it is not top of my list.

So there you have the answer for anyone wondering why Aer Lingus are running cadetships. It's for the simple reason that they are not the only act in town for young lads and lassies who have their wings. When they run DE campaigns many of the applicants are over 35 or nearing 40 and do not have the ideal shelf life Aer Lingus would want. Those who are young(under 30) with a few 1000 hours are looking at the big money elsewhere and are less concerned with returning to the family and/or financial roots they have in Ireland. Hell even some of their former cadets are looking for the big money elsewhere!

Best of luck to those who apply. But if you do not make it dont crawl under a rock and die, keep plugging away at it! It's a wide world of flying out there!

Hate to break it to you there where 4,5 Cadets in there 30s that Aer lingus took in the last cadet program..Your right about keep plugging away ! There are other airlines who run cadet programs just apply ! Never know how far you will get.

surfer86 · 14-05-2013 5:53pm

Hi,

Does anyone know what type of time frame can be expected between each stage of the assessment process? How long between assessments or what dates could he expected for each stage

Thanks

Suasdaguna1 · 14-05-2013 7:30pm

basill wrote: »

If anyone here is serious about getting onto a cadet scheme then they need to pull finger and start doing some serious research and stop looking for spoonfeeding.

"me doth think he protest too much"

Boards.ie are amongst numerous websites is where potentials are attempting to glean some info. It's a forum where good gen is given and waffle,b/s and Walter Mitty characters lurk..(remember the last cadet thread where mr heavy weight was giving his words of wisdom.....he was ran off the forum)....it's not spoon feeding in the slightest.

Likewise and in support of Bas, if anyone thinks this is a walk in the park with theirM.engs and doctorates in aviation science, well they have another thing coming. Best of luck folk, it's a very rewarding career.

nabanoba · 15-05-2013 1:04am

I was just wondering does anyone have a rough idea of how many people applied last time and how many places are up for grabs this time?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Shamrock231 · 15-05-2013 1:09am

I think it was in the region of 2000 that applied last time and 20 spots, I'd imagine there'd be between 15-20 cadets in this group.

nabanoba · 15-05-2013 1:12am

Thanks a million Shamrock. I thought there'd be more than 2000 applying. Especially when CTC claim to have 7000 applications a year. Could be even less applying this time as well as the course isn't fully funded.

Shamrock231 · 15-05-2013 1:23am

nabanoba wrote: »

Thanks a million Shamrock. I thought there'd be more than 2000 applying. Especially when CTC claim to have 7000 applications a year. Could be even less applying this time as well as the course isn't fully funded.

Last time it was less clear about the funding, last time I think the statement went something along the lines of "The training costs 100,000 and the cadet will be required to pay for a portion of this." - Most people last time around when they were applying thought it would have been either 50:50 or 75:25 to the student paying... No one knew that they'd fully fund it.

In fact, is anyone certain that they fully funded it last time? I also heard rumours of the 25k from the cadet last time, only in the last few weeks have I heard people saying it was fully funded.

Tenger · 15-05-2013 8:08am

doha wrote: »

Alright lads

Dad's side from Monaghan, Mum's side from Stoke on Trent; Live in England but currently living (and in Sixth Form) abroad in Qatar.

Would having A Levels instead of Leaving Certificates put me at a disadvantage with AL?

No. LC results are to give the recruiters/interviewers a general impression of you education levels and ability. A Level results are easy for them to quantify in relation to the posted LC results.
The psych tests and interviews will do the rest.

Calm Observer · 15-05-2013 8:26am

nabanoba wrote: »

Thanks a million Shamrock. I thought there'd be more than 2000 applying. Especially when CTC claim to have 7000 applications a year. Could be even less applying this time as well as the course isn't fully funded.

I reckon you're looking at anywhere up to 10,000 applications this time. There will be far more than last time considering the number of people still being churned out of universities each year with no prospects. Candidates were definitely under the impression that they had to pay between 50,000 and 75,000 themselves last time so this will be even more attractive.

Lustrum · 15-05-2013 10:05am

I went through the whole lot last year, but was ultimately unsuccessful unfortunately.

The online aptitude tests weren't too tricky, and as someone has already pointed out, a bit of googling will get you examples. The maths had some conversions (from hectares to meters, lbs to kgs etc), so look them up, and have a calculator handy. Verbal and spatial reasoning are what they are, again, it's worth having an idea of what to expect at least by getting examples online. Latestpilotjobs.com has some good examples. There was also a co-ordination "game" (for want of a better word) which involved flying through a tube and dodging walls. That was great craic!

The group assessment was based on choosing an energy source for an island. We had 5 people assessing our group, three of them pilots that are involved in recruitment and I can only assume the other two were HR. Again, it's a little intense as you are aware that they're really watching you and there's no immediate feedback so you've no idea of how it's going.

My interview was with two pilots, both dead sound. There were general technical questions (I had all 14 ATPL exams done at this stage and had just started the CPL course), a good bit about Airbus and F-B-W, Aer Lingus' business model, fleet, financial position, etc. They went through my CV asking me about different bits, then there was the usual "tell me about a time when you had to deal with ..." type questions. It was about 1hr 20 if I can recall correctly, and they certainly helped make it feel relaxed although it was tough.

Last up was the psychologist interview. There were two psychologists in the room. Firstly I had to do a computerised "test", with a ridiculous amount of questions - there could have been over 200, but don't quote me on that. Once that was done, there was the grilling from the psychologist. Only one of them spoke, the other one just sat there taking notes. This was probably the most nerve racking part of the whole process, as he began by telling me that there were between 30-40 candidates left, and if I didn't get through it would be because of his report. I can't really tell you how to prepare for this type of interview, because no matter what you do some guy who has never met you is going to profile your whole personality based on 1hr of your time, and there's nothing you can do about it.

At the interview they told me that the split was going to be €25,000 paid by the cadet, and AL would pay the rest. Also, AL don't give any feedback, but the psychologist said he would if unsuccessful so I got some from him. I'm no psychologist, but in my opinion all the reasons he gave me for not putting me through were wrong, but as I said, there's nothing I can do about that.

Best of luck to all who do apply. For anyone who really want to be a pilot, this is the golden ticket, and will save you the hardship of joining the rat race that is trying to get your first flying job.

Also, picking up from another thread, if anyone needs to come on here and ask what F-B-W is, then this probably isn't the job for you!

Suasdaguna1 · 15-05-2013 10:33am

Lustrum wrote: »

Best of luck to all who do apply. For anyone who really want to be a pilot, this is the golden ticket, and will save you the hardship of joining the rat race that is trying to get your first flying job.

Sums it up......informative post

Calm Observer · 15-05-2013 11:34am

Lustrum wrote: »

I went through the whole lot last year, but was ultimately unsuccessful unfortunately.

The online aptitude tests weren't too tricky, and as someone has already pointed out, a bit of googling will get you examples. The maths had some conversions (from hectares to meters, lbs to kgs etc), so look them up, and have a calculator handy. Verbal and spatial reasoning are what they are, again, it's worth having an idea of what to expect at least by getting examples online. Latestpilotjobs.com has some good examples. There was also a co-ordination "game" (for want of a better word) which involved flying through a tube and dodging walls. That was great craic!

The group assessment was based on choosing an energy source for an island. We had 5 people assessing our group, three of them pilots that are involved in recruitment and I can only assume the other two were HR. Again, it's a little intense as you are aware that they're really watching you and there's no immediate feedback so you've no idea of how it's going.

My interview was with two pilots, both dead sound. There were general technical questions (I had all 14 ATPL exams done at this stage and had just started the CPL course), a good bit about Airbus and F-B-W, Aer Lingus' business model, fleet, financial position, etc. They went through my CV asking me about different bits, then there was the usual "tell me about a time when you had to deal with ..." type questions. It was about 1hr 20 if I can recall correctly, and they certainly helped make it feel relaxed although it was tough.

Last up was the psychologist interview. There were two psychologists in the room. Firstly I had to do a computerised "test", with a ridiculous amount of questions - there could have been over 200, but don't quote me on that. Once that was done, there was the grilling from the psychologist. Only one of them spoke, the other one just sat there taking notes. This was probably the most nerve racking part of the whole process, as he began by telling me that there were between 30-40 candidates left, and if I didn't get through it would be because of his report. I can't really tell you how to prepare for this type of interview, because no matter what you do some guy who has never met you is going to profile your whole personality based on 1hr of your time, and there's nothing you can do about it.

At the interview they told me that the split was going to be €25,000 paid by the cadet, and AL would pay the rest. Also, AL don't give any feedback, but the psychologist said he would if unsuccessful so I got some from him. I'm no psychologist, but in my opinion all the reasons he gave me for not putting me through were wrong, but as I said, there's nothing I can do about that.

Best of luck to all who do apply. For anyone who really want to be a pilot, this is the golden ticket, and will save you the hardship of joining the rat race that is trying to get your first flying job.

Also, picking up from another thread, if anyone needs to come on here and ask what F-B-W is, then this probably isn't the job for you!

Thanks for this post, very informative. That should cover any questions people have until Aer Lingus respond to our applications.

Just one other thing, did they wait until application system had closed before sending links to the online tests?

Shamrock231 · 15-05-2013 11:38am

Thanks for the info Lustrum, very helpful.

ExtaticFob · 15-05-2013 12:03pm

Thanks a lot for the info Lustrum. Nice to get a better understanding of what happens throughout selection.

Lustrum · 15-05-2013 12:32pm

Calm Observer wrote: »

Just one other thing, did they wait until application system had closed before sending links to the online tests?

You know, I can't remember. If you have plenty of spare time you could probably trawl through last years thread and find out.

From what I recall, the majority of guys that I know that applied got the invitation to the online assessments, but very few of us made it to interviews.

basill · 16-05-2013 12:00am

Your are very naive if you think that any organisation would give you feedback on an interview for a job which you were considered not suitable.

There are EU laws which enable some loser to sue you should you give them a bad reference which in turns means they do not get a job. Expect a loss of earnings claim. Hence why any employer worth their salt only ever gives generic references and if you want more then you are relying on your line manager to put their neck on the chopping block and go alone.

BrakePad · 16-05-2013 12:21am

Lustrum wrote: »

For anyone who really want to be a pilot, this is the golden ticket, and will save you the hardship of joining the rat race that is trying to get your first flying job.

Your post was great, however I disagree with this statement. Yes if you get selected and make the grade in training you have got a golden ticket. However if you should slip up or have an issue in training then your golden ticket can become a poison chalice! My friend's uncle was a cadet in the 80s. He fell behind in groundschool and as a result failed some exams. He was told he violated the minimum terms for employment and sent packing. He was lucky that he was able to continue training in the same place, just not on the EI ticket. He found it a recurring issue when getting work as he was seen to have "washed out" at EI and no airline wanted to be seen(in the 80s) to be taking EI's cast offs. He spent many years as a FI, then a Bizjet pilot and eventually ended up at Cathay 14 years after he left EI.

A lot of guys with no previous interest applying for this will think it's about shagging Air Hostesses and travelling the world...however becoming a pilot is very hard work and needs a lot of application and effort. It didnt happen with the last group but it has happened in the past that people wash out(or drop out) because it's too hard to not what they thought. If you are just coming to it when you apply because it looks good you may be able to pass that off. However if you want to be a pilot and that is your thing, washing off a cadetship can be damaging.

Shamrock231 · 16-05-2013 4:39pm

Just been sent out an email asking to register for the Pychometric tests...

Calm Observer · 16-05-2013 4:41pm

Same

BrakePad · 16-05-2013 4:58pm

ditto

nabanoba · 16-05-2013 5:31pm

Does it give you a time frame to do the tests in?

I'm a bit nervous about sending in my application as I'll be on holiday next week and don't want to be told I must return the Psychometric tests within 5 days! Might wait til I come back to apply.

Calm Observer · 16-05-2013 5:33pm

nabanoba wrote: »

Does it give you a time frame to do the tests in?

I'm a bit nervous about sending in my application as I'll be on holiday next week and don't want to be told I must return the Psychometric tests within 5 days! Might wait til I come back to apply.

It just says that once you register you have 3 days to complete the tests. Doesn't say when you need to register by, just says to do it as soon as possible.

happy_head · 16-05-2013 5:38pm

Do you reckon the tests will be the same as last year? With that 'wall game' thing and the moving runway??

doha · 16-05-2013 7:23pm

In the email AL sent, it mentions that there are example tests to work through before beginning the real tests (which last two hours!) but I can't seem to find them..am I being daft or is anyone else also having trouble?

BrakePad · 16-05-2013 7:34pm

doha wrote: »

In the email AL sent, it mentions that there are example tests to work through before beginning the real tests (which last two hours!) but I can't seem to find them..am I being daft or is anyone else also having trouble?

When you click to do a test it gives you examples before hand

doha · 16-05-2013 7:38pm

Cheers.

Aer Lingus Cadetship 2013

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