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How your farm animals are raised

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    #122
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Thankfully not everyone gains financially from the trade and slaughter of animals and it’s those people that will find change easier.

    I understand the fear change brings and especially when it hits you in the pocket.

    Ironically the movie ‘peaceable kingdom’, with releases in 2004 and in 2009, is about some farmers that did choose to go vegan and the reasons why.

    Interesting movie and well worth a watch.


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    #123
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Thankfully not everyone gains financially from the trade and slaughter of animals and it’s those people that will find change easier.

    I understand the fear change brings and especially when it hits you in the pocket.
    Ironically the movie ‘peaceable kingdom’, with releases in 2004 and in 2009, is about some farmers that did choose to go vegan and the reasons why.
    Interesting movie and well worth a watch.

    Everyone benefits financially from something or other - often with significant detrimental impacts on other people, the environment etc. whether it's buying cheap socks in pennies or eating cheap mass produced foodstuffs such as palm oil or almonds. Is admiting that to yourself so difficult? I do understand the fear change can bring and especially where it might hit you in the pocket. But you can't ignore that truth


    Animal Farming in Ireland on the other hand is expansive and well regulated. The farmers I know all do the very best with what they have. Most of them would give you the shirt of their back if you were stuck.

    Btw I tbought you were ignoring me lol. Anyway I already know of at least one vegan farmer who raises livestock. He went vegan due to having had some gastrointestinal surgery which reduced the length of the colon and his bodies natural ability to break down meat products.

    What people practice and what people preach - doesn't always match up in my experience. Cognitive dissonance is a big thing especially where all food consumption involves the death of a huge range of animals and other organisms. That's what you have to remember. Especially before going on the proslytising bandwagon.

    Btw you never answered up whether you support animal welfare or not?

    :confused:


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    #124
    Eathrin
    Registered Users Posts: 8,076 ✭✭✭Eathrin


    All vegans support good animal welfare. What is good is subjective. I can't speak for klopp but for me good welfare includes not killing as much as is possible.


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    #125
    ganmo
    Registered Users Posts: 7,748 ✭✭✭ganmo


    Eathrin wrote: »
    All vegans support good animal welfare. What is good is subjective. I can't speak for klopp but for me good welfare includes not killing as much as is possible.

    Unfortunately there are vegans who think that putting animals down to end an animals suffering is not an option


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    #126
    Eathrin
    Registered Users Posts: 8,076 ✭✭✭Eathrin


    ganmo wrote: »
    Unfortunately there are vegans who think that putting animals down to end an animals suffering is not an option

    Doubt it's all that many really. Most vegans I know support euthanasia given it's better than the alternatives. But this has nothing to do with the animal slaughter industry.


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    #127
    Mooooo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,611 ✭✭✭Mooooo


    Eathrin wrote: »
    All vegans support good animal welfare. What is good is subjective. I can't speak for klopp but for me good welfare includes not killing as much as is possible.

    Farmers also support animal welfare, dedicate their lives to it in a lot of cases.
    I think the issue is the videos which are being posted here, which if true should be and I presume were reported to relevant authorities by those making the video, are very much in a minority as well as being from other countries. The intent then is to lump all farmers into that category when the vast majority certainly are not. There are wrongs in all walks of life, everything but that does not mean we judge all by the those that are wrong.
    I have no issue with anyone being vegan, but spreading misinformation and implying that we, farmers, all as a group are as described in those videos I do have issue with.
    As I have suggested previously buy free range and Irish produce would be a better start and improve things. Its supermarkets and processors which are the ones making the vast majority of profit out of the industry . Also as said by another poster, instead of watching and believing everything you see on the net go talk to a farmer, visit a farm and see for yerselves.


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    #128
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Eathrin wrote: »
    All vegans support good animal welfare. What is good is subjective. I can't speak for klopp but for me good welfare includes not killing as much as is possible.


    Unfortunately all 'vegans' don't....

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/killing-animals-petas-open-secret_us_59e78243e4b0e60c4aa36711

    Also I've posted this previously...

    The anti "Wild Animal Suffering" vegan movement is quite mainstream with Facebook pages and eager adherents who believe the day will come when all the gazelles will romp around and either lions will be killed off or genetically altered into herbivores 
    The majority of the planet's 50,000 or so vertebrate species are vegetarian. But among the minority of carnivorous species are some of the best known creatures on the planet. Should these serial killers be permitted to prey on other sentient beings indefinitely?
    it's crucial that at some point the animal-rights movement moves beyond farm, laboratory, and companion animals. The scale of brutality in nature is too vast to ignore, and humans have an obligation to exercise their cosmically rare position as both intelligent and empathetic creatures to reduce suffering in the wild as much as they can.

    See:

    https://www.hedweb.com/abolitionist-project/reprogramming-predators.html

    https://foundational-research.org/the-importance-of-wild-animal-suffering/

    The dark underbelly of extremist veganism ....


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    #129
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Hard to believe we can treat animals in this way -

    https://youtu.be/SXZkfdLU8O8


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    #130
    s7ryf3925pivug
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭s7ryf3925pivug


    I understand that most pigs in Ireland are factory farmed.


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    #131
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Jay Tangy Custodian wrote: »
    I understand that most pigs in Ireland are factory farmed.

    What’s your point ?


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    #132
    s7ryf3925pivug
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭s7ryf3925pivug


    Deleted User wrote: »
    What’s your point ?
    It’s in response to the notion that the videos aren’t representative of the conditions of Irish livestock. I understand the conditions of pigs to be usually very bad.


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    #133
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Jay Tangy Custodian wrote: »
    It’s in response to the notion that the videos aren’t representative of the conditions of Irish livestock. I understand the conditions of pigs to be usually very bad.

    I made the mistake of not putting something like ‘this is how humans raise animals for food’ in the title.

    So people are taking ‘your’ in the title to mean ‘you’ specifically. Kind of dumb right ?

    It might be best for a mod to outline this to stop the thread getting derailed daily.

    So can a mod change thread title or close thread maybe. I didn’t realise so many people would indentify with location rather than race.

    So a thread title like ‘how humans raise animals for food’ would be more accurate.


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    #134
    ganmo
    Registered Users Posts: 7,748 ✭✭✭ganmo


    Jay Tangy Custodian wrote: »
    I understand that most pigs in Ireland are factory farmed.

    How do you define factory farm?


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    #135
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Hard to believe we can treat animals in this way -

    https://youtu.be/SXZkfdLU8O8

    Ok Australia this time. Who's this 'we' kemosabe?


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    #136
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I made the mistake of not putting something like ‘this is how humans raise animals for food’ in the title.
    So people are taking ‘your’ in the title to mean ‘you’ specifically. Kind of dumb right ?
    It might be best for a mod to outline this to stop the thread getting derailed daily
    So can a mod change thread title or close thread maybe. I didn’t realise so many people would indentify with location rather than race.
    So a thread title like ‘how humans raise animals for food’ would be more accurate.


    In fairness posters can only respond to that which is written. if you wish to change the title of the thread after the fact that's a different agenda obviously. Those videos are not representative of conditions here imo. It remains you can't tar all 'humans' either - no matter what your pushing. So yes thats 'dumb' for sure.

    Maybe if you wish to campaign against Australian or US conditions you'd be better served finding ways of doing that in those places. To be honest you appear to be 'derailing' your own thread. But hey there you go.


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    #137
    s7ryf3925pivug
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭s7ryf3925pivug


    ganmo wrote: »
    How do you define factory farm?

    As stuff like this:
    The pig industry in the Republic of Ireland is highly intensive, with the vast majority of pigs reared on factory farms. In these, pigs are kept inside large sheds with no access to outdoors, and conditions are often crowded and barren.

    http://www.ciwf.ie/farminfo/farmfacts_pigs.html


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    #138
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    gozunda wrote: »
    In fairness posters can only respond to that which is written. if you wish to change the title of the thread after the fact that's a different agenda obviously. Those videos are not representative of conditions here imo. It remains you can't tar all 'humans' either - no matter what your pushing. So yes thats 'dumb' for sure.

    Maybe if you wish to campaign against Australian or US conditions you'd be better served finding ways of doing that in those places. To be honest you appear to be 'derailing' your own thread. But hey there you go.

    Pity you didn’t take the opportunity to respond to what was written by the farmer earlier in the thread. You disappeared fairly quickly at that stage.

    Agenda ? Campaign ? Think you’re talking about yourself there. You’re the guy that has contributed to every vegan thread I’ve seen on any forum on Boards. I haven’t done that. You have though.

    My only motive to to help people see the pain and suffering their choices cause.

    Wonder is that other farmer still around. Maybe you’d love to respond to ‘which is written’ then.

    What do you do yourself Gozunda ? Do you still financially profit from farming ? Did your father ? Do your kids ? Only asking because your obvious fear is worrying.

    You talk about vegan activists making money so maybe you’ll talk about how you make your money ?


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    #139
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Humans are paying for this to happen -

    https://youtu.be/xcR76gERgRk


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    #140
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Jay Tangy Custodian wrote: »
    As stuff like this:

    http://www.ciwf.ie/farminfo/farmfacts_pigs.html

    Unlike much of the videos linked to on this page Compassion in World Farming actively encourages improvements in animal welfare.

    Unfortunately much of the footage put together by extreme vegan interests appears to be concerned with publicity etc and ironically state in many cases that they do not support animal welfare. Something I find hypocritical and dishonest.


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    #141
    emaherx
    Registered Users Posts: 5,959 ✭✭✭emaherx


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Humans are paying for this to happen -

    https://youtu.be/xcR76gERgRk

    That is absolutely not representative of farming.
    What do you prove by finding videos of complete scum mistreating animals in the worst way?
    Do you think all farm animals are treated this way?


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    #142
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Pity you didn’t take the opportunity to respond to what was written by the farmer earlier in the thread. You disappeared fairly quickly at that stage.
    Agenda ? Campaign ? Think you’re talking about yourself there. You’re the guy that has contributed to every vegan thread I’ve seen on any forum on Boards. I haven’t done that. You have though.My only motive to to help people see the pain and suffering their choices cause. Wonder is that other farmer still around. Maybe you’d love to respond to ‘which is written’ then.
    What do you do yourself Gozunda ? Do you still financially profit from farming ? Did your father ? Do your kids ? Only asking because your obvious fear is worrying. You talk about vegan activists making money so maybe you’ll talk about how you make your money ?

    Lol attempting to wind posters up Klopp? Which 'Farmers are you referring to btw?

    You still havn't answered the questioned asked now many times and which you have ignored - Do you support animal welfare are are you continuing to use these videos for your own agenda?

    Do you benefit from farming Klopp? Do you eat agricultural produce? Do you purchase cheap imported foods for your pleasure of eating them - foodstuffs which frequently have few if any environmental or ethical standards. Do you benefit financially from buying said cheap foodstuffs. Did your father? Do your Kids?

    I hav'nt seen comments on the thread re 'money' why you brining it up - Are you hoping to make money ?


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    #143
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    gozunda wrote: »
    Lol attempting to wind posters up Klopp? Which 'Farmers are you referring to btw?

    You still havn't answered the questioned asked now many times and which you have ignored - Do you support animal welfare are are you continuing to use these videos for your own agenda?

    Do you benefit from farming Klopp? Do you eat agricultural produce? Do you purchase cheap imported foods for your pleasure of eating them - foodstuffs which frequently have few if sny environmental or ethical standards. Do you benefit financially from buying said cheap foodstuffs. Did your father? Do your Kids?

    Again. You’ve used agenda, campaign and now wind-up. Says a lot more about you I think.

    You avoided that farmer like a dose. Afraid to engage with somebody that understands how to circumnavigate regulations.

    On a thread in after hours about ‘cliques on boards’ you posted this -

    Vegans

    Vs

    Any one else who posts on 'Vegan' interest threads (How dare they!!!)

    So I reckon you get off on this interaction on the vegan forum. Very weird behaviour. Makes me feel a bit stalked.

    Real shame I don’t use desktops but I need to log in on one soon to ignore you.

    So you’ve pretty much shown that you are the one with an agenda, campaign and on the wind-up.

    Except with the farmer that wanted to discuss devious farming ongoings.


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    #144
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Again. You’ve used agenda, campaign and now wind-up. Says a lot more about you I think. You avoided that farmer like a dose. Afraid to engage with somebody that understands how to circumnavigate regulations. On a thread in after hours about ‘cliques on boards’ you posted this - VegansVsAny one else who posts on 'Vegan' interest threads (How dare they!!!)So I reckon you get off on this interaction on the vegan forum. Very weird behaviour. Makes me feel a bit stalked. Real shame I don’t use desktops but I need to log in on one soon to ignore you.
    So you’ve pretty much shown that you are the one with an agenda, campaign and on the wind-up. Except with the farmer that wanted to discuss devious farming ongoings.

    Ok you've largely gone way off topic there.

    No point in trying to start an argument but as you should have noticed I already asked which 'farmer' are you referring to Klopp? There's been lots of farmers replying to the repetitive links which as pointed out fail to discuss anything.

    I am however touched by your solicitude ('stalking'?) and your reading of all the humerous after hours threads!. And yes that was a tongue in cheek riposte from some posters who claimed that others should not post in 'vegan' interest threads etc -lol.

    The thing is if you post something and fail to discuss it properly or if what you post does not stand up - then expect for those posts to be looked at critically.

    And to ask again because it is very relevant where you are posting animal welfare related videos imo - Do you support animal welfare?

    Thanks


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    #145
    ganmo
    Registered Users Posts: 7,748 ✭✭✭ganmo


    Jay Tangy Custodian wrote: »
    As stuff like this:



    http://www.ciwf.ie/farminfo/farmfacts_pigs.html

    but you're using the phrase factory farms to define factory farms.


    Yes pig and poultry are highly intensive operations but at what stage to they get called factory farms? 1000 sows? 2000? or by what metric makes a farm a factory farm


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    #146
    Tar.Aldarion
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,082 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    Thread closed, vacuous discussion over.


This discussion has been closed.
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