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Insulation

  • 06-12-2019 5:46pm
    #1
    greek88
    Registered Users Posts: 64 ✭✭


    Hi

    New Build at the moment


    Just enquiring about insulation for under floor. I have heard some lads saying stay away from Ballytherm and go Xtratherm or kingspan and others saying ballytherm is fine. Only reason i ask is Ballytherm is cheaper.
    Anyone got any views on this?

    With regards to Cavity i will be looking at xtratherm full fill cavity i know its more expensive but feel the benefits will be worth it.

    thaughts anyone? thanks


Comments

  • #2
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,354 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    greek88 wrote: »
    Hi

    New Build at the moment


    Just enquiring about insulation for under floor. I have heard some lads saying stay away from Ballytherm and go Xtratherm or kingspan and others saying ballytherm is fine. Only reason i ask is Ballytherm is cheaper.
    Anyone got any views on this?

    With regards to Cavity i will be looking at xtratherm full fill cavity i know its more expensive but feel the benefits will be worth it.

    thaughts anyone? thanks

    What has your BER Preliminary Assessment called up?
    That way we can match it with a similar preforming product.

    No point getting a shopping list from the internet if it doesn’t comply with what you need to achieve Part L compliance.


  • #3
    BryanF
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,140 Mod ✭✭✭✭BryanF


    https://www.ballytherm.ie/downloads/

    It’s CE marked and compliant with Irish regs


  • #4
    Calahonda52
    Registered Users Posts: 12,170 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    OP: why do you need insulation?

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



  • #5
    Robert Allen
    Registered Users Posts: 96 ✭✭Robert Allen


    I went With xtratherm. At the time, 2 years ago, it was a good bit cheaper than kingspan, not much more expensive than ballytherm.

    Reason being - basically builders i knew used it regularly, hardwares had stock ready to go and either didnt stock ballytherm/ had to order it in. They didnt impress me when i was ringing them about the product / trying to get a better price etc but xtratherm were fairly on the ball.

    So....i dont know if its actually better or worse but it was only €1 per sheet cheaper i think and i couldnt find anyone who had put ballytherm in a house before so based on that and being told that extratherm was grand by builder friends, hardware, architects etc i went with it.

    If you are putting it down yourself be carefull when using off cuts to fill in around awkward places in the hall for example. Part of our hall was small and narrow with angled walls and a few small presses coming off of it. We ended up using small off cuts to fill this space in with a layer of 100mm and a layer of 70mm. The problem now is its not as 'solid' as where we used full/bigger sheets. When you walk on it, usually first thing in the morning, you can hear it compress/drop /crack a little bit at the sides under the skirting and architrave. I thought it was the sound of the paint covering the small gap between the floor and skirting bresking away but its more than that. Its probably only a mm or so but it is noticeable and not heard in any other area of the house. The fact that we didnt power float the concrete subfloor on which the sheets of insulation are resting on doesnt help the either.


    Rant over.....Best of luck with the build!


  • #6
    Rows Grower
    Registered Users Posts: 7,789 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    I went with 100mm Kingspan, it cost a few bob extra but I would recommend it as you only get one chance to do it right and you will save a fortune on heating bills over time. Once the floor heats up it'll stay warm for ages when the heating is turned off.

    A buddy of mine was building around the same time and went with 25mm to save costs and he can't heat his house at all.

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



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  • #7
    Robert Allen
    Registered Users Posts: 96 ✭✭Robert Allen


    Rows Grower wrote: »
    I went with 100mm Kingspan, it cost a few bob extra but I would recommend it as you only get one chance to do it right and you will save a fortune on heating bills over time. Once the floor heats up it'll stay warm for ages when the heating is turned off.

    A buddy of mine was building around the same time and went with 25mm to save costs and he can't heat his house at all.

    Fair point...when its buried down there you will never see it again..hopefully!

    It could also be that ballytherm and kingspan have a better marketing team behind them...performance could be the same but when someone tells you thevye been putting extratherm in floors for 10 years with no issues it helped make up my mind.

    Whats the price difference now per sqm?


  • #8
    Rows Grower
    Registered Users Posts: 7,789 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    I've no idea of the price difference, I built 11 years ago and the local place only stocked Kingspan and it was the best at the time so I went with that.

    There was a difference of around 1100 euro at the time between 50mm and 100mm and I've deffo saved multiples of that in heating oil since.

    The engineer told me 50mm would be fine as that what was in his specs but the lads doing the concrete base were very experienced and convinced me otherwise and I'm glad I listened to their advice even if it was articulated rather abruptly. ("Shur what the fcuk would he know? He's only out of college. He's knows fcuk all if he's telling you to use two inch. Is it the ground underneath the house you want to heat or the house you want to heat? You'll only get one chance at this so go away and buy the 4 inch and no more about it. Shur look at the fcuking state of him with his shiny fcuking safety boots, he's knows fcuk all.)

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



  • #9
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,354 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Rows Grower wrote: »
    I went with 100mm Kingspan, it cost a few bob extra but I would recommend it as you only get one chance to do it right and you will save a fortune on heating bills over time. Once the floor heats up it'll stay warm for ages when the heating is turned off.

    A buddy of mine was building around the same time and went with 25mm to save costs and he can't heat his house at all.

    25mm are you sure that wasn’t just the perimeter pieces?
    I done my extension 2 years ago and I put in 150mm under the slab. You loose 30% of the space heating through the floor. Best to put in as mush as you can now.


  • #10
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,354 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Robert Allen wrote: »
    Fair point...when its buried down there you will never see it again..hopefully!

    It could also be that ballytherm and kingspan have a better marketing team behind them...performance could be the same but when someone tells you thevye been putting extratherm in floors for 10 years with no issues it helped make up my mind.

    Whats the price difference now per sqm?

    The difference in terms of performance between the 3 brands is non existent. It comes down to workmanship of installation. Completely filling the slab void, right perimeter pieces and tape all the joints. Good bedding underneath too.


  • #11
    Rows Grower
    Registered Users Posts: 7,789 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    kceire wrote: »
    25mm are you sure that wasn’t just the perimeter pieces?
    I done my extension 2 years ago and I put in 150mm under the slab. You loose 30% of the space heating through the floor. Best to put in as mush as you can now.

    As sure as there's a hole in your arse.

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



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  • #12
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,354 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Rows Grower wrote: »
    As sure as there's a hole in your arse.

    Says a lot about the home owner and builder.
    Obviously a self build with no certification.


  • #13
    Jjpc84
    Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭Jjpc84


    Are you only comparing price of the insulation or the actual uvalue which hasn’t been mentioned here yet between all the experts?


  • #14
    Jjpc84
    Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭Jjpc84


    As an installer, 150mm is minimum for regs. Your friend used 25mm for expansion and is confusing the situation, and brand (ie. kingspan ballytherm) is only a brand. Look up there uvalues, not this thread for advice from jimmy who heard it from a frien of a friend.


  • #15
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,354 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Jjpc84 wrote: »
    Are you only comparing price of the insulation or the actual uvalue which hasn’t been mentioned here yet between all the experts?
    Jjpc84 wrote: »
    As an installer, 150mm is minimum for regs. Your friend used 25mm for expansion and is confusing the situation, and brand (ie. kingspan ballytherm) is only a brand. Look up there uvalues, not this thread for advice from jimmy who heard it from a frien of a friend.

    Think you need to read the thread properly.
    Post No. 2 tells the OP to check the performance criteria against what he is buying. The next post then tells the the OP that the CE marking of the product ensures it’s fit for purpose once used in accordance with manufacturers guidelines.

    So I think your posting saying that nobody has mentioned uvalue is untrue and a bit dubious.


  • #16
    Ronney
    Registered Users Posts: 836 ✭✭✭Ronney


    Ballytherm had issues with shrinkage a few years back, google it , there were court cases about it.

    This is probably why most builders would keep clear.


  • #17
    Who2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,037 ✭✭✭Who2


    Ronney wrote: »
    Ballytherm had issues with shrinkage a few years back, google it , there were court cases about it.

    This is probably why most builders would keep clear.

    It was a serious mess in a few houses. Pipes pulling, floors cracking and skirting board sitting up in the air in a few places? When all sank. For the sake of it do it right. As far as I know Kingspan rating is better than xtratherm but marginally. A lot depends how it’s fitted.


  • #18
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,354 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Who2 wrote: »
    It was a serious mess in a few houses. Pipes pulling, floors cracking and skirting board sitting up in the air in a few places? When all sank. For the sake of it do it right. As far as I know Kingspan rating is better than xtratherm but marginally. A lot depends how it’s fitted.

    Kingspan TF70 Floor Insulation - 0.022 W/m.K

    Ballytherm BTF Floor Insulation - 0.022 W/m.K

    Both the same thermal conductivity so no board is better than the other. But, its effectiveness will come down to ensuring they are laid correctly.


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