Board of Management Chairperson

MDR · 28-11-2019 12:19pm #1

Hi all,

I have been recently asked to serve on the Board of Management of my kid's primary school. I was happy to volunteer along with one other Parent rep. The position is for the next four years, which is perfect as it roughly matches up with my kids attendance at the school.

However one of the questions that came up at a recent meeting was the board of management positions of Chairperson, Secretary and Treasurer. I was told that these positions were appointed for a four year period, and the appointees were already decided prior to our joining the committee.

I said I was uncomfortable with this - as these were important roles, and to have them both pre-ordained and unchangeable for four years didn't seem right.

I was alternately told that was both the policy from the Patron (Bishop of Emly and Cashel) and that it was also in legislation.

I have some doubts, how would I check these?

Ray K

dambarude · 28-11-2019 11:09pm

See the Governance Manual for Primary Schools: https://www.education.ie/en/Schools-Colleges/Information/Boards-of-Management/governance-manual-for-primary-schools-2019-2023.pdf

byhookorbycrook · 28-11-2019 11:13pm

Here you go:
https://www.education.ie/en/Schools-Colleges/Information/Boards-of-Management/Governance-Manual-for-Primary-Schools-2015-2019.pdf

"For schools having a recognised staff of more than one teacher the Board of
Management shall, subject to 3(d), comprise the following:
(i) Two direct nominees of the Patron. (whether the school is a parish school , the patron is usually the bishop. For multi-d schools, the patron is usually the Foras Patrúnachta (for multi-d Gaelscoileanna) or Educate Together. So not open to public vote.

(ii) Two parents elected from parents of children who are enrolled and have
commenced attendance at the school (one being a mother, the other a father,
elected by the general body of parents of children who are enrolled and have commenced attendance at the school). -That would be you, I take it?

(iii) The Principal teacher (or Acting Principal teacher) of the school. Again, not open to public vote.
(iv) One other serving teacher on the staff of the school, elected by vote of the
teaching staff which includes the Principal teacher. " This is obviously only open to the teaching staff for voting.

(v)Two extra members proposed by those nominees, described at (i) - (iv)
above, acting in accordance with the process set out at Appendix C.

Does that make things clear?

I'm not sure what you mean by "I said I was uncomfortable with this - as these were important roles, and to have them both pre-ordained and unchangeable for four years didn't seem right." considering that you will also serve 4 years.

The only positions for which parents/guardians can vote are the parents' nominees.

BrianBoru00 · 28-11-2019 11:18pm

Thats for electing the board. The issue the op has is that one the board of management there is a chairpeson and secretary and treasurer.
They are being asked to join a committee where those three roles are already in place.

In most voluntary organisations e.g. GAA all elections usually take place the same time

killbillvol2 · 28-11-2019 11:26pm

The Chairperson is appointed by the patron. No ifs or buts. The Secretary is usually the school principal unless he or she declines. So those positions are usually decided before the board even meets.

The Treasurer, however, should be elected from the members of the board and definitely shouldn't be in place before the board convenes.

dambarude · 28-11-2019 11:28pm

The Governance Manual states:

The chairperson shall be appointed by the patron and his or her authority shall derive
from such appointment. In exercising this function the patron may give due consideration
to the opportunity to engage in a consultative process within the school community and/or
with members of the Board. The patron, in appointing an individual as chairperson shall
also give due consideration to the possibility of perceived conflicts of interest in holding
the position of chairperson and shall have regard to the individual’s capacity to undertake
the duties of the role.

In circumstances where the principal of a school does not act as secretary to a Board
1) The Board shall elect a recording secretary from amongst its members

Each board of management (other than boards of community national schools) shall,
subject to section 6, elect a treasurer from amongst its members. The requirements of
section 12 do not apply to boards of management of community national schools. Boards
of management of community national schools are advised to contact the relevant
ETB regarding school finances as set out in section 17.2 of this manual.

killbillvol2 · 28-11-2019 11:32pm

Also, you shouldn't have had a board meeting as the board doesn't take office until December 1st.

byhookorbycrook · 28-11-2019 11:32pm

The school is following DES rules, though.

byhookorbycrook · 28-11-2019 11:34pm

killbillvol2 wrote: »

Also, you shouldn't have had a board meeting as the board doesn't take office until December 1st.

Parent reps. have to be decided before the BOM sits for the 1st time. It's my reading of the post that there hasn't been a board meeting yet.

killbillvol2 · 28-11-2019 11:37pm

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

The school is following DES rules, though.

You need to inform yourself before posting. You linked to the old document, clearly didn't read the current one and basically don't understand the procedure. It's very clear.

killbillvol2 · 28-11-2019 11:39pm

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Parent reps. have to be decided before the BOM sits for the 1st time. It's my reading of the post that there hasn't been a board meeting yet.

They're not talking about parent reps. They're arguing that the officer positions shouldn't be filled in advance, incorrectly in two cases but correctly regarding the Treasurer.

byhookorbycrook · 28-11-2019 11:46pm

killbillvol2 wrote: »

You need to inform yourself before posting. You linked to the old document, clearly didn't read the current one and basically don't understand the procedure. It's very clear.

My apologies re the incorrect link, but the new version also states the quote below. So my points re electing chairperson etc. still hold
"(a) Two direct nominees of the patron.
(b) Two parents elected from parents of children who are enrolled and have
commenced attendance at the school (one being a mother, the other a father,
elected by the general body of parents of children who are enrolled and have
commenced attendance at the school).
(c) The principal (or acting principal) of the school.
(d) One other serving teacher on the staff of the school, elected by vote of the
teaching staff which includes the principal.
(e) Two extra members proposed by those nominees, described at (a) to (d) above,
acting in accordance with the process set out at Appendix c

killbillvol2 · 28-11-2019 11:48pm

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

My apologies re the incorrect link, but the new version also states:
"(a) Two direct nominees of the patron.
(b) Two parents elected from parents of children who are enrolled and have
commenced attendance at the school (one being a mother, the other a father,
elected by the general body of parents of children who are enrolled and have
commenced attendance at the school).
(c) The principal (or acting principal) of the school.
(d) One other serving teacher on the staff of the school, elected by vote of the
teaching staff which includes the principal.
(e) Two extra members proposed by those nominees, described at (a) to (d) above,
acting in accordance with the process set out at Appendix c

Are you deliberately missing the point? Nobody is discussing how the members were chosen except you.

They were told that the position of Treasurer has already been filled. This is not within the rules. Full stop.

DubCount · 29-11-2019 10:03am

Each Board of Management lasts 4 years, but the parent reps are usually the members who change from one board to the next. Often the Patron members, the community members and the principal/teacher rep serve for longer than one 4 year term. Sometimes if one of the six non-parent reps was secretary/treasurer on the last board and express an interest in doing the job again, they usually get the gig. I would not be surprised if this is the case. Secretary & Treasurer are big time consuming jobs - if they have someone who has experience of doing the job puts themselves forward, I would not rock the boat.

The Chairman is usually an appointment of the Patron Body.

byhookorbycrook · 01-12-2019 11:07pm

Reminder that the boards charter says that one bay attack the post , but not the poster, mod or not .

beggars_bush · 03-12-2019 7:59pm

If you want to be chairperson next time out, do good job as parent rep.
The BOM is more like the board of a company rather than a sporting organisation
It has statutory obligations

kala85 · 04-12-2019 12:09am

beggars_bush wrote: »

If you want to be chairperson next time out, do good job as parent rep.
The BOM is more like the board of a company rather than a sporting organisation
It has statutory obligations

What statutory obligations does it have.

byhookorbycrook · 04-12-2019 8:13pm

kala85 wrote: »

What statutory obligations does it have.

As I have already been the subject of some abuse here, I'm posting the relevant links below.

"The functions of the board of management (the Board)
are set out in section 15 of the Education Act, 1998 which provides,
inter alia, that it shall be the duty of the Board to “manage the school
on behalf of the patron and for the benefit of the students and their
parents and to provide or cause to be provided an appropriate
education for each student at the school for which that board has
responsibility”. Section 15 of the Education Act, 1998 also provides
that a “board shall perform the functions conferred on it and on a
school by this Act"
This is from:

https://www.education.ie/en/Schools-Colleges/Information/Boards-of-Management/governance-manual-for-primary-schools-2019-2023.pdf

And section 15 of the Act is here:
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1998/act/51/section/15/enacted/en/html

Grace2019 · 06-12-2019 3:56pm

Sorry a little bit of topic here.
What happens when the the previous 2 parent reps (who did absolutely nothing for previous 4 years) nominate themselves again and there pals vote them in....
Can it be challenged, can we as parents look to see the actual number of votes they got, as there was new parents (not me) nominated and on the paper....
One of the parents is connected to the priest, so you know yourself.... Jobs for the boys ðŸ˜‰

byhookorbycrook · 06-12-2019 4:49pm

How do you know they did a bad job ?Is it possible that you are mixing up the role of the parent rep. on the BOM vs a parent role in a parents’ association.

For issues around voting / selection , have a look at Appendix B in the document above .

Grace2019 · 06-12-2019 5:47pm

Can't really get into specific details about it here...
Is there anyone on a BOM with experience that I could PM please. Thanks

ax530 · 06-12-2019 5:59pm

Grace2019 wrote: »

Sorry a little bit of topic here.
What happens when the the previous 2 parent reps (who did absolutely nothing for previous 4 years) nominate themselves again and there pals vote them in....
Can it be challenged, can we as parents look to see the actual number of votes they got, as there was new parents (not me) nominated and on the paper....
One of the parents is connected to the priest, so you know yourself.... Jobs for the boys ðŸ˜‰

In our school patents are invited in to watch the votes being counted.

Board of Management Chairperson

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