Boards.ie uses cookies. By continuing to browse this site you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Click here to find out more x
Post Reply  
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
22-11-2019, 20:43   #16
Cass
Moderator
 
Cass's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 22,468
Send a message via MSN to Cass
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldgit1897 View Post
.......... anything that will delay the application or rock the boat, into the guards starting their work-to-rule-go slow you will avoid. In fact most people will swallow the crap so long as they get their licence.
And where has it gotten us? The time is takes to process is actually slowing and we're now getting every ounce of sh*t they can throw at us. So we're no better off.

The other side of the coin is if you're happy to eat the sh*t sandwich then don't waste time complaining. It's like complaining about the politicians but then saying you've never voted.

Quote:
Also the old "Don't piss off the guards, they'll get you for a baldy tyre or your tax being out of date" attitude still prevails with a lot of people.
Don't have bald tyres of no tax.

Don't tell me this is a simplistic attitude, it's not. We're always going to be under the microscope, and not just in our shooting lives, so don't give them a scab to pick. As i said to a family member recently when neighbors accused her dogs of sh**ing in the green area of her estate, though she denies it. Don't allow your dogs out the front, off leash, and they won't be able to try and blame you.

I've said many times over the years we take too much, then are surprised when they keep moving the goalposts. Why wouldn't they? the "cap in hand" attitude is still alive and the sooner we cop on that we are not criminals and have every right to demand they do their jobs, the better we'll be.

Hell just look at the announcement last week on FB, and via the various shooting groups from AGS urging all firearm owners to submit their renewals in a timely manner because its OUR fault things are slowing down. The absolute fecking neck to make such an accusation.
Cass is offline  
(2) thanks from:
Advertisement
22-11-2019, 23:36   #17
Sika98k
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 375
[QUOTE=Cass;111835042

Hell just look at the announcement last week on FB, and via the various shooting groups from AGS urging all firearm owners to submit their renewals in a timely manner because its OUR fault things are slowing down. The absolute fecking neck to make such an accusation.[/QUOTE]

Where was that ? Didn’t see it anywhere I roam on FB. Because I would LOVE to reply.
Sika98k is offline  
Thanks from:
22-11-2019, 23:57   #18
feartuath
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sika98k View Post
Where was that ? Didn’t see it anywhere I roam on FB. Because I would LOVE to reply.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagpipe View Post
That attitude is definitely still around especially in the small districts where everyone knows everyone

There is an article on this weeks farmers journal about firearms seized in Tipperary because of licences lapsed.
Pg 8.
feartuath is offline  
22-11-2019, 23:58   #19
 
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cass View Post


I've said many times over the years we take too much, then are surprised when they keep moving the goalposts. Why wouldn't they? the "cap in hand" attitude is still alive and the sooner we cop on that we are not criminals and have every right to demand they do their jobs, the better we'll be.

Hell just look at the announcement last week on FB, and via the various shooting groups from AGS urging all firearm owners to submit their renewals in a timely manner because its OUR fault things are slowing down. The absolute fecking neck to make such an accusation.

Yeah but the fight-da-powa thing will get us nowhere in a hurry either, the public are not on our side. Its not just the firearms licencing either. You seen the **** storm from the rank and file when the new commissioner was mooted, because they knew he was going to try to weed out the chancers, gangsters and bad apples.

The problem is the gardai have been a law unto themselves since the founding of the state, getting away with all sorts of crap that would have seen them sacked in any other european country.

I went through an interview with a senior guard when the centrefire pistol ban came in and they were restricted. His behaviour was scandalous, and hard to believe, he communicated in grunts, eye-rolls and personal insults, wouldn't greet me when i entered, or shake my hand. What would have happened if i made an official complaint ? Absolutely nothing, but probably a couple of detectives following me or something unpleasant.

Look at how Maurice Mc cabe was treated.
oldgit1897 is offline  
(2) thanks from:
22-11-2019, 23:59   #20
Bagpipe
Registered User
 
Bagpipe's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldgit1897 View Post
Yeah but the fight-da-powa thing will get us nowhere in a hurry either, the public are not on our side. Its not just the firearms licencing either. You seen the **** storm from the rank and file when the new commissioner was mooted, because they knew he was going to try to weed out the chancers, gangsters and bad apples.

The problem is the gardai have been a law unto themselves since the founding of the state, getting away with all sorts of crap that would have seen them sacked in any other european country.

I went through an interview with a senior guard when the centrefire pistol ban came in and they were restricted. His behaviour was scandalous, and hard to believe, he communicated in grunts, eye-rolls and personal insults, wouldn't greet me when i entered, or shake my hand. What would have happened if i made an official complaint ? Absolutely nothing, but probably a couple of detectives following me or something unpleasant.

Look at how Maurice Mc cabe was treated.

A good purge wouldn't go astray.
Bagpipe is offline  
Advertisement
23-11-2019, 00:42   #21
Cass
Moderator
 
Cass's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 22,468
Send a message via MSN to Cass
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldgit1897 View Post
Yeah but the fight-da-powa thing will get us nowhere in a hurry either, the public are not on our side.
Gonna stop ya right here.

This is not a "fight da power" situation. We're not looking for the law to be amended, repealed, etc. We're demanding that AGS involved in firearms do THEIR job as laid out by the firearms act, and the Commissioner's guidelines.

Nothing more.

So we don't need the public on our side. This is not a PR situation and the great unwashed have no say in how AGS act in the course of their duties in this matter, nor does their opinion count for spit.

We must make sure all our Ducks are in a row when applying so why are AGS not held to the same standard. Its not even a high standard, just the ability to do their job correctly.

If we can start to document and record instances of lost applications, delays, etc. then we can start to argue on a "fight da power" level for real change but without actual data its only about feelings, and facts don't care about feelings.
Cass is offline  
Thanks from:
23-11-2019, 01:38   #22
 
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cass View Post
Gonna stop ya right here.

This is not a "fight da power" situation. We're not looking for the law to be amended, repealed, etc. We're demanding that AGS involved in firearms do THEIR job as laid out by the firearms act, and the Commissioner's guidelines.

Nothing more.


So we don't need the public on our side. This is not a PR situation and the great unwashed have no say in how AGS act in the course of their duties in this matter, nor does their opinion count for spit.

We must make sure all our Ducks are in a row when applying so why are AGS not held to the same standard. Its not even a high standard, just the ability to do their job correctly.

If we can start to document and record instances of lost applications, delays, etc. then we can start to argue on a "fight da power" level for real change but without actual data its only about feelings, and facts don't care about feelings.
Yeah, but it doesn't matter what we want or how right we are, the guards consider themselves to be the law or above it. We have seen that thousands of times on here with people dealing with them and them acting up, doing what they want. Supers having blanket bans of what they will issue a cert for in their patch. I know several who point blank refuse to allow moderators. A senior garda not doing their job, not considering each application on its merits.
oldgit1897 is offline  
23-11-2019, 07:59   #23
Grizzly 45
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 10,949
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldgit1897 View Post
Yeah but the fight-da-powa thing will get us nowhere in a hurry either, the public are not on our side. Its not just the firearms licencing either. You seen the **** storm from the rank and file when the new commissioner was mooted, because they knew he was going to try to weed out the chancers, gangsters and bad apples.

The problem is the gardai have been a law unto themselves since the founding of the state, getting away with all sorts of crap that would have seen them sacked in any other european country.

I went through an interview with a senior guard when the centrefire pistol ban came in and they were restricted. His behaviour was scandalous, and hard to believe, he communicated in grunts, eye-rolls and personal insults, wouldn't greet me when i entered, or shake my hand. What would have happened if i made an official complaint ? Absolutely nothing, but probably a couple of detectives following me or something unpleasant.

Look at how Maurice Mc cabe was treated.
I had one like that too. A formal complaint to GSOC on his carry on and attitude soon changed his tune.
Kind of happens when they walk into their office to find a colleague of equal or superior rank having a good read of your file,and a poke in their desk drawers proably as well.It violates both the Garda charter on dealing with the public,and common manners.Fortunately those kind are retiring and dieing out like the dinosaurs they are.Dealing with the Gaurds in recent times had become alot more customer friendly I find to me,personally.
Grizzly 45 is offline  
(2) thanks from:
23-11-2019, 11:02   #24
Asus1
Registered User
 
Asus1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 124
I must be very lucky as the 2 people (female and male) i have any interactions with here in kildare in the Naas station are sound.In saying that I have never met them face to face as i have not had the need to yet so maybe im missing out on all the fun and games of chasing them for a meeting.It seems a bit mad that one minute they are on patrol and the next minute they are in shuffling through renewals and applications.Its abit like a pilot acting as a steward once the plane takes off as the airline don't want to emply anyone to do the stewards job.Just employ a person in the larger station's to look after firearms applications and deal with the people looking for them.
Asus1 is offline  
Advertisement
23-11-2019, 12:15   #25
Cass
Moderator
 
Cass's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 22,468
Send a message via MSN to Cass
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldgit1897 View Post
Yeah, but it doesn't matter what we want or how right we are,
Yes it does and the sooner we begin to act like it does the better. Everything we want, in licensing terms, is exactly what is in the Act. So it's not beyond the realm of possibility to want it enacted.

Quote:
the guards consider themselves to be the law or above it. We have seen that thousands of times on here with people dealing with them and them acting up, doing what they want.
Some do, no doubt, but as Grizz said those few have numbered days and we need to, well i suppose train is the only word i can think off, the new batch into their new position as FO. Again we're not looking for special treatment, just fair treatment as per the Firearms Acts.
Quote:
Supers having blanket bans of what they will issue a cert for in their patch.
And because no one ever got a letter to say this its only word of mouth and we have no stick to beat them with because such a ban is illegal.

I'm not saying it'll be easy or happen soon, but we need to make a start at some point so why not now? If its because its too hard then what is the point in compaining?

Last edited by Cass; 23-11-2019 at 12:21.
Cass is offline  
24-11-2019, 12:01   #26
Bagpipe
Registered User
 
Bagpipe's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 58
The FO ignored me again yesterday just for an update so what should I do now? Fair enough if the grant letter comes this week but I'm still a bit vexed over the whole thing.
Bagpipe is offline  
24-11-2019, 16:12   #27
 
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 282
Go over his head and make an appointment to see the superintendent. That will get the cat amongst the pigeons and no mistake.
oldgit1897 is offline  
Thanks from:
25-11-2019, 08:32   #28
ZiabR
Registered User
 
ZiabR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,229
I would be inclined to agree with the above poster. I would request a meeting with the super and explain the situation.

I submitted a substitution this morning and was told to expect it back in approx 2-3 weeks. There is no reason for them to take any longer. They already have your details on the system and are simply updating the Firearm.

It really is as simply as.

1) FO or Garda stamps the form and signs it
2) In some cases the Super checks and signs off on the application
3) it is sent to the civilian staff who update the information on the system
4) New Licence is sent out in the post.

All in all, if everyone has the things together, it could be out in the post within 48-72 hours.

It is pharisaical that in Ireland we are looking at 4-16 weeks.
ZiabR is offline  
26-11-2019, 19:56   #29
Cass
Moderator
 
Cass's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 22,468
Send a message via MSN to Cass
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sika98k View Post
Where was that ? Didn’t see it anywhere I roam on FB. Because I would LOVE to reply.
Had to try and find it.

Its a post from AGS page, from October 24th. You have to scroll down to get it as i cannot link directly to it.

It's also been posted across other pages, mostly game pages, like the NARGC, Offaly, et. and recently by the North Tipp page (no blame on them, just pointing it out).
Cass is offline  
Thanks from:
27-11-2019, 06:41   #30
Bogwoppit
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 844
https://www.facebook.com/49900765058...67?d=n&sfns=mo
Bogwoppit is online now  
(2) thanks from:
Post Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Remove Text Formatting
Bold
Italic
Underline

Insert Image
Wrap [QUOTE] tags around selected text
 
Decrease Size
Increase Size
Please sign up or log in to join the discussion

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Share Tweet