What did people vote for in 2016's EU membership referendum?

Tell me how · 29-10-2019 10:05pm

hotmail.com wrote: »

Is this the first time you've heard this argument?

No, and you're arguing it in the same way. Just a simple statement without depth.

hotmail.com · 29-10-2019 10:06pm

Duane Dibbley wrote: »

It does. I had the feeling in the 90s when working in Germany where the squaddies were based.

I always found there nationalism overbearing and there resentment of Mainland Europeans was amazing.

The Military families I would think has a massive vote leave preference.

Even among the "ex-pats" living in Spain, there is massive Euro scepticism. They tend not to integrate or mix with locals and stay within mini English communities.

hotmail.com · 29-10-2019 10:11pm

Tell me how wrote: »

No, and you're arguing it in the same way. Just a simple statement without depth.

Basic points behind Euro scepticism include:

Affection for the Empire, not Europe
Europe doesn't speak English
Britain is proud of it's legal history, the EU undermined this
Britain proud of it's long parliamentary tradition, 'Mother of Parliaments', EU diluted this
Europe represented a place where relatives fought and died, it doesnt evoke good memories for many

Edit: A general superiority complex

Fogmatic · 30-10-2019 1:17pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Thankfully the UK is not Ireland or the Netherlands or France who are told to vote again when the right answer is not given and meekly oblige.

Quite right - it's the country where Dear Leader forbids another people's vote after using smoke and mirrors to get the right answer.

Eric Cartman · 31-10-2019 12:23pm

They voted to leave the EU

Thats with or without a deal.
The official guide said negociating a deal may be difficult or may not happen, leavers promised a deal quickly.

volchitsa · 31-10-2019 12:42pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

They voted to leave the EU

Thats with or without a deal.
The official guide said negociating a deal may be difficult or may not happen, leavers promised a deal quickly.

That's like saying that people who vote Tory this time are voting for the NHS to be dismantled and sold off to private American Healthcare companies because the opposition has told them it would happen while the Tories say they had lots of other plans to raise money and won't need to sell off the NHS.

Eric Cartman · 31-10-2019 12:43pm

volchitsa wrote: »

That's like saying that people who vote Tory this time are voting for the NHS to be dismantled and sold off to private American Healthcare companies because the opposition has told them it would happen while the Tories say they had lots of other plans to raise money and won't need to sell off the NHS.

Why be so paranoid about the NHS , nobody outside of conspiracy theorists has indicated anything is happening to it

ancapailldorcha · 31-10-2019 12:43pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

They voted to leave the EU

Thats with or without a deal.
The official guide said negociating a deal may be difficult or may not happen, leavers promised a deal quickly.

And the official leave campaign said that we wouldn't be leaving the single market while also saying that we'd be able to negotiate trade deals easily because Britain holds all the cards as well as promising an extra 350 million pounds a week for the NHS, money which never existed.

Eric Cartman · 31-10-2019 12:46pm

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

And the official leave campaign said that we wouldn't be leaving the single market while also saying that we'd be able to negotiate trade deals easily because Britain holds all the cards as well as promising an extra 350 million pounds a week for the NHS, money which never existed.

Very true, there were quite a lot of lies on both sides, it was an awful idea , but they voted for it and now i just want it to be done, deal or no deal so they can go swivel on it.

ancapailldorcha · 31-10-2019 12:48pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Very true, there were quite a lot of lies on both sides, it was an awful idea , but they voted for it and now i just want it to be done, deal or no deal so they can go swivel on it.

Both sides being factions within the Conservative party.

If you want it to be done, we need to have a second referendum and remain. Otherwise, Johnson's deal will just entail a united Ireland replete with a bloated public sector and welfare state and a new rejoin movement in the UK should the transition period of his deal ever fail to be extended.

Eric Cartman · 31-10-2019 12:55pm

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Both sides being factions within the Conservative party.

If you want it to be done, we need to have a second referendum and remain. Otherwise, Johnson's deal will just entail a united Ireland replete with a bloated public sector and welfare state and a new rejoin movement in the UK should the transition period of his deal ever fail to be extended.

Now thats scaremongering.
I also think a second referendum would yield the same result , i think anyone trying to deal block or repeal is hampering this and they should get on with a deal.

ancapailldorcha · 31-10-2019 1:03pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Now thats scaremongering.
I also think a second referendum would yield the same result , i think anyone trying to deal block or repeal is hampering this and they should get on with a deal.

How? What do you think organisations like People's Vote, Another Europe is possible, etc are going to do? Just disappear?

I'm a Unionist from Ulster and I'd prefer being in a 32-country Irish republic within the EU over being stuck in an isolationist little England any day of the week.

Eric Cartman · 31-10-2019 1:06pm

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

How? What do you think organisations like People's Vote, Another Europe is possible, etc are going to do? Just disappear?

I'm a Unionist from Ulster and I'd prefer being in a 32-country Irish republic within the EU over being stuck in an isolationist little England any day of the week.

Im not saying i agree with it, but I think the british public would absolutely vote to keep leaving the EU. The only thing this entire fiasco has done is polarise people even more and the working class, northern england and conservatives are all emboldened behind brexit, some even moving towards desiring no deal.

The lib dem leaning tv snapshots of you g women and students from wealthier parts of south london are not the reality that ‘second voters’ are gunning for

ancapailldorcha · 31-10-2019 1:09pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Im not saying i agree with it, but I think the british public would absolutely vote to keep leaving the EU. The only thing this entire fiasco has done is polarise people even more and the working class, northern england and conservatives are all emboldened behind brexit, some even moving towards desiring no deal.

I'd say if there were any evidence at all that the UK would continue with this via another referendum then we'd have one. The disaster capitalists and nationalists know they were dammed lucky to edge the first one and now they'll do all they can to shut down the next one.

I don't want to dwell too much on it as it might veer slightly off topic but I think if Labour go down this road they can very well win. Northern England and Scotland will not vote Conservative regardless of what either of the main parties do. NI and Wales are largely irrelevant. The question is whether or not moderate and liberal Tories can stomach an authoritarian like Johnson. I suspect the answer is no.

Tell me how · 31-10-2019 1:11pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Now thats scaremongering.
I also think a second referendum would yield the same result , i think anyone trying to deal block or repeal is hampering this and they should get on with a deal.

Have you not seen what has happened over the last 3+ years, so much has been revealed while they also tried to get 2 deals through?

Heres hoping for some form of parliament which allows a second vote to decide either remain or whatever deal is on the table.

volchitsa · 31-10-2019 1:11pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Why be so paranoid about the NHS , nobody outside of conspiracy theorists has indicated anything is happening to it

Trump actually is a conspiracy theorist so you're not entirely wrong.

But there are also people like the US Ambassador, WoodyJohnson, and indeed various reports at different levels of preparations for negotiations for US companies to get out of current pricing contracts imposed on them by NICE: NHS discussed at 'secret' trade deals with US pharmaceutical companies

And also US wants access to NHS in post-brexit deal, says ambassador to UK

Or there's Conspiracy theorist-in-chief himself who said: Trump says NHS 'must be on the table' in UK-US trade negotiations

And I'm sure you'll agree that it's not really a conspiracy theory when those planning to actually do it announce it themselves.

weisses · 31-10-2019 1:12pm

hotmail.com wrote: »

Even among the "ex-pats" living in Spain, there is massive Euro scepticism. They tend not to integrate or mix with locals and stay within mini English communities.

Yeah they should kick them out those non integrating migrants

Eric Cartman · 31-10-2019 1:16pm

weisses wrote: »

Yeah they should kick them out those non integrating migrants

I think every holidaymaker in the world would rejoyce if they booted the brits out of spain, could you imagine how nice benidorm could be...

weldoninhio · 31-10-2019 1:17pm

briany wrote: »

If the UK took ten years to leave the EU, would that mean that the referendum was respected? All it said was about the UK leaving the EU, it didn't say when it had to happen by. If the UK stayed in the CU and SM, would the the referendum be respected? All it said was about leaving the EU, not the SM or CU as well.

I bet those who drafted the original referendum legislation are wishing they'd at least thought of a slightly more in-depth, nuanced question.

Doesn't Article 50 state two years?? The EU are giving extension after extension knowing that they are not going to offer a better deal. What exactly is the point of this, except in the hope that somehow they can get the UK to remain. The EU is deliberately stringing the UK along in the hope they get their own way.

weisses · 31-10-2019 1:18pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Why be so paranoid about the NHS , nobody outside of conspiracy theorists has indicated anything is happening to it

except for the foreign healthcare workers leaving the NHS after the referendum ... Resulting in an even bigger health care crisis ....

weisses · 31-10-2019 1:18pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I think every holidaymaker in the world would rejoyce if they booted the brits out of spain, could you imagine how nice benidorm could be...

I would probably move over then

Eric Cartman · 31-10-2019 1:20pm

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I'd say if there were any evidence at all that the UK would continue with this via another referendum then we'd have one. The disaster capitalists and nationalists know they were dammed lucky to edge the first one and now they'll do all they can to shut down the next one.

I don't want to dwell too much on it as it might veer slightly off topic but I think if Labour go down this road they can very well win. Northern England and Scotland will not vote Conservative regardless of what either of the main parties do. NI and Wales are largely irrelevant. The question is whether or not moderate and liberal Tories can stomach an authoritarian like Johnson. I suspect the answer is no.

I doubt it, the second referendum is the remoaners ‘lisbon 2’ telling people they did it wrong, go again and hoping fatigue sets in. TM’s deal was arguably pretty decent in comparisson, if people werent so busy blockading and wanting to undo democracy they could be out the door with that right now. Since that deal was put on the table it has been the remain side scuppering progress.

I think the tories have a huge issue with unlikeable leaders, funnily if farage decided to climb the ranks there in his old days , with a bit of training and polish I could absolutely see him being PM worthy material for them

volchitsa · 31-10-2019 1:23pm

weldoninhio wrote: »

Doesn't Article 50 state two years?? The EU are giving extension after extension knowing that they are not going to offer a better deal. What exactly is the point of this, except in the hope that somehow they can get the UK to remain. The EU is deliberately stringing the UK along in the hope they get their own way.

How are they stringing them along - by not saying No to them? The EU isn't forcing or even encouraging the UK to ask for these extensions. If the UK think it isn't in their best interests to get an extension, they can stop asking for them.

quokula · 31-10-2019 1:24pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Why be so paranoid about the NHS , nobody outside of conspiracy theorists has indicated anything is happening to it

The point being made wasn't about the NHS or whether you believe the reports or not.

The point is that if you think it's ok for the referendum result to be acted out based on what the losing side said would happen and based on what the winning side called "project fear", then surely it would be equally legitimate for a Tory government to come in and dismantle the NHS because Jeremy Corbyn said they would, even if it's the opposite of what they put in their own manifesto.

weisses · 31-10-2019 1:25pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I doubt it, the second referendum is the remoaners ‘lisbon 2’ telling people they did it wrong, go again and hoping fatigue sets in. TM’s deal was arguably pretty decent in comparisson, if people werent so busy blockading and wanting to undo democracy they could be out the door with that right now. Since that deal was put on the table it has been the remain side scuppering progress.

I think the tories have a huge issue with unlikeable leaders, funnily if farage decided to climb the ranks there in his old days , with a bit of training and polish I could absolutely see him being PM worthy material for them

Was it because of the remainers or the brexiteers all previous deals got blocked ?

volchitsa · 31-10-2019 1:25pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I doubt it, the second referendum is the remoaners ‘lisbon 2’ telling people they did it wrong, go again and hoping fatigue sets in. TM’s deal was arguably pretty decent in comparisson, if people werent so busy blockading and wanting to undo democracy they could be out the door with that right now. Since that deal was put on the table it has been the remain side scuppering progress.

I think the tories have a huge issue with unlikeable leaders, funnily if farage decided to climb the ranks there in his old days , with a bit of training and polish I could absolutely see him being PM worthy material for them

The DUP are remainers now are they? I know you're pretty delusional but that seems hard for anyone to swallow.

Eric Cartman · 31-10-2019 1:28pm

volchitsa wrote: »

The DUP are remainers now are they? I know you're pretty delusional but that seems hard for anyone to swallow.

Could have achieved the votes if remainer tories and flip flopping independents didnt sabotage them

briany · 31-10-2019 1:28pm

weldoninhio wrote: »

Doesn't Article 50 state two years?? The EU are giving extension after extension knowing that they are not going to offer a better deal. What exactly is the point of this, except in the hope that somehow they can get the UK to remain. The EU is deliberately stringing the UK along in the hope they get their own way.

How is the EU stringing the UK along? Did the EU impose these extensions against the UK's will? As far as I'm aware, it was the UK who asked for more time. They could be out right now, if they really wanted to be.

ancapailldorcha · 31-10-2019 1:30pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I doubt it, the second referendum is the remoaners ‘lisbon 2’ telling people they did it wrong, go again and hoping fatigue sets in. TM’s deal was arguably pretty decent in comparisson, if people werent so busy blockading and wanting to undo democracy they could be out the door with that right now. Since that deal was put on the table it has been the remain side scuppering progress.

I think the tories have a huge issue with unlikeable leaders, funnily if farage decided to climb the ranks there in his old days , with a bit of training and polish I could absolutely see him being PM worthy material for them

Remoaners? Really?

To be honest, there's little that convinces me that I'm on the right side than people thinking that they're clever saying that.

volchitsa · 31-10-2019 1:34pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Could have achieved the votes if remainer tories and flip flopping independents didnt sabotage them

Eh no. The ERG and the DUP are neither remainders nor flipflopping independents. You're blaming the opposition for voting against the government deal when even people within government and supporting Brexit voted against it.

What did people vote for in 2016's EU membership referendum?

Comments