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Munster vs Saracens, Sat 7th Dec 5:30pm, BT Sport

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭Interested Observer


    mystic86 wrote: »
    Draw against Racing at home and win against Saracens but failed to prevent them from getting the bonus point, in the bigger picture if I was a betting man I would bet against Munster getting out of this group.

    6 points from the two big home games isn't really enough, yeah. Though Saracens may throw the game next weekend too. Just thinking about some of their selections, was that their fourth choice fullback?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,872 ✭✭✭yosser hughes


    mystic86 wrote: »
    Draw against Racing at home and win against Saracens but failed to prevent them from getting the bonus point, in the bigger picture if I was a betting man I would bet against Munster getting out of this group.

    Yep, Sararcens will be happy enough with that result.


  • Registered Users Posts: 407 ✭✭liosnagceann75


    I gave my ticket to my mate who brought his wife with him.. I had keyhole surgery on my knee 3 days ago and am only shuffling along. Watching the match was more painful than the pain after the surgery


  • Registered Users Posts: 388 ✭✭sliabh 1956


    That was pretty nerve wracking at the end if Farell was playing Saracens could have easily won to day . They made so little use of all the possesion they had in the second had in the 2nd half. I was in in section 206 in the East stand a lot of empty seats around me maybe people didnt travel because of the bad forecast


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,162 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    Saracens will say nothing after tonight but I imagine they are absolutely delighted with how things went. That was not a poor Saracens team but the opportunity was there for Munster. The weather was a leveller but they needed to deny Saracens anything which didn't happen.

    With the Racing result, it was a bad night for Munster. I thought that Racing could blow it and only go home with 4 points but it's absolutely their pool to lose now on 12 points after 3 games. A win against Munster and 5 points against the Ospreys again in upcoming fixtures will mean they can potentially send the Espoirs to Saracens if things go their way next week.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,838 ✭✭✭leakyboots


    25,034 attendance. Disappointing numbers, can't believe we made a loss

    Edit: and the Leinster match is sold out two weeks in advance. For shame.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    If the game was sold out prior to kick off? People not showing up will make no difference as ticket already paid for??


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,728 ✭✭✭Former Former


    Clip of the Botha incident.



    This is a red card all day and more importantly, it's a ban. If Saracens go full strength next week, Munster will need all the power they can muster so Botha would be a loss.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,300 ✭✭✭✭razorblunt


    No arguments on the card, rush of blood to the head but I’d imagine that’s him looking at 3 weeks.

    He’s been in great form too, will definitely be a loss.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,983 ✭✭✭mystic86


    leakyboots wrote: »
    25,034 attendance. Disappointing numbers, can't believe we made a loss.

    Can you expand on that, what do you mean we made a loss?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,599 ✭✭✭ScrubsfanChris


    mystic86 wrote: »
    Can you expand on that, what do you mean we made a loss?
    Not such a clever attempt of a joke on my expense I assume. Thinks I meant loss over all, poor chap

    Made reference yesterday that it looked like not enough of the extra seating was sold to cover the cost of installing them in the first place.


    Good few seats filled after kick off so it's probably fine but south end was still 90% empty.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,532 ✭✭✭✭phog


    I only saw the first half and thought our lead wasn't enough considering the gale that was blowing. I was offline until after the match ended so was pleasantly surprised to see we won, I genuinely thought we'd concede more than a converted try in the 2nd half.

    Real shame we couldn't stop them getting the LBP


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,532 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Not such a clever attempt of a joke on my expense I assume. Thinks I meant loss over all, poor chap

    Made reference yesterday that it looked like not enough of the extra seating was sold to cover the cost of installing them in the first place.


    Good few seats filled after kick off so it's probably fine but south end was still 90% empty.

    The majority if not all the seats were sold.

    But what did you use as your calculations? How much does the extra seating cost? How much did Munster make on ticket sales from the extra seats?

    Anyone know if the extra seating is staying in place for the Leinster game


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,887 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    That was as ugly a match as I've ever seen. I like what Larkham is trying to instil. Great to see a full house.
    Top performers for me were Cronin, Holland and J.O.D.
    JJ was ok. He's looking settled and a little confidence would help. Murray was ok.
    Saracens were so poor and error prone. Ridiculous amount of spills.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,162 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    Dubinusa wrote: »
    . Murray was ok.

    A problem for Murray/Munster right now is that they don't trust their back up (and I don't particularly blame them). Murray played 80 minutes in a slugfest at the weekend on a heavy pitch. The only way he isn't on the field after 70 minutes this coming weekend is if the game is dead at that stage. It has to take a toll on the legs particularly when Saracens will be rotating two test scrumhalves.

    If they think Casey is going to be a real option, they need to invest in him as much as possible this season and have him up to speed for ECC rugby next season.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 9,977 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    One think I've noticed with Murray is that on occasion, he seems to take a step from the ruck that he wasn't taking before. We've seen some defenders getting a hand on him before he gets the pass away once or twice over the last few weeks.

    He has seemed to start sniping again tho. He used to be a real threat from 5 yards, and chipped in with his fair share of tries, but that seems to have been missing the last while.

    I agree with Buer tho, I don't think McCarthy or Cronin have shown anything to suggest they are good enough to step in.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,532 ✭✭✭✭phog


    phog wrote: »
    The majority if not all the seats were sold.

    But what did you use as your calculations? How much does the extra seating cost? How much did Munster make on ticket sales from the extra seats?

    Anyone know if the extra seating is staying in place for the Leinster game

    To answer my last question - the extra seating is in place for the sold out match v Leinster
    This season’s Munster v Leinster clash at Thomond Park has once again sold-out in record time.
    The teams clash at 6pm on Saturday, December 28, and the game has sold out three weeks in advance.

    Additional goal-line seating has been installed for the Interprovincial derby to increase the capacity to a record-equalling 26,267.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,955 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    aloooof wrote: »
    One think I've noticed with Murray is that on occasion, he seems to take a step from the ruck that he wasn't taking before. We've seen some defenders getting a hand on him before he gets the pass away once or twice over the last few weeks.

    He has seemed to start sniping again tho. He used to be a real threat from 5 yards, and chipped in with his fair share of tries, but that seems to have been missing the last while.

    I agree with Buer tho, I don't think McCarthy or Cronin have shown anything to suggest they are good enough to step in.

    This is why Alby should have been signed for the rest of the season.


  • Subscribers Posts: 40,722 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Yeah_Right wrote: »
    This is why Alby should have been signed for the rest of the season.

    agreed.

    it shows a bit of the hypocrisy with the policy.

    If Alby was still there he could have had 30 minutes between last weekend and next weekend.... and could have been the difference between saracens getting 1 point or none.

    Casey, Cronin and McCarty are simply not ready for that level of european rugby this season.

    A little more planning could see a situation where players are graded and then the IRFU prescribe a min number of game time minutes per season.... lets say MCCarty 400 minutes, cronin 300, casey 250... something like that ... so thats on average 11 of the 21 pro 14 games... which gives your front line player 10 games. Working under the assumption that your team will get to the play offs at a minimum.

    europe then could have Murray and Alby mixing up minutes, in order to give the best opportunity to win the competition.

    The IRFU policy promotes player development over clubs chances of winning, and im not sure they have the balance correct yet. Matthewson should have been given the season.... especially in the light if murray struggling to regain form... and beating him with minutes isn't going to be much help.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,887 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Yea. Alby was really better than Murray. Comfortably imo. But, the fact that Murray played the full match this weekend was telling. McCarthy must not be up to par and Casey is not ready yet.
    We may see some rotating after this weeks Euros.
    Great chance to test the understudies.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,066 ✭✭✭Richie_Rich89


    Yeah_Right wrote: »
    This is why Alby should have been signed for the rest of the season.

    Either sign him till the end of the season or not at all. Having him there for the first few months just puts McCarthy/Cronin/Casey in a less good position going into Saracens away than they could have been in.

    Anyway, I think they should throw Casey in this weekend. Having him come on in the last 15 mins could be good with his top-notch passing.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    g
    sydthebeat wrote: »
    agreed.

    it shows a bit of the hypocrisy with the policy.

    If Alby was still there he could have had 30 minutes between last weekend and next weekend.... and could have been the difference between saracens getting 1 point or none.

    Casey, Cronin and McCarty are simply not ready for that level of european rugby this season.

    A little more planning could see a situation where players are graded and then the IRFU prescribe a min number of game time minutes per season.... lets say MCCarty 400 minutes, cronin 300, casey 250... something like that ... so thats on average 11 of the 21 pro 14 games... which gives your front line player 10 games. Working under the assumption that your team will get to the play offs at a minimum.

    europe then could have Murray and Alby mixing up minutes, in order to give the best opportunity to win the competition.

    The IRFU policy promotes player development over clubs chances of winning, and im not sure they have the balance correct yet. Matthewson should have been given the season.... especially in the light if murray struggling to regain form... and beating him with minutes isn't going to be much help.


    To be fair to the IRFU Mathewson was signed on a short term injury contract, 12 months later he is still playing with Munster. All last season it wasn't a case of just throwing Mathewson in for Europe, he played every min possible



    Based on previous unless they force provinces to play the young Irish they will always revert to the season NIQ.



    Munster have signed McCarthy, Murray, Cronin and Casey available. What match's are you putting in Mathewson and playing the other 4?

    It's not like you can leave him sitting on bench all season just to rock him out for 30 mins at the end of an odd game. He needs game time to keep fit. So he will get that in Pro 14 and that means McCarthy or Casey will suffer.


    If Mathewson was signed again, he would be playing in Europe and Pro 14. McCarthy and Casey would be sitting on the bench and come next season it would be the same requirement, oh can we sign Mathewson again because these guys have no experience......

    I do think it was stupid to resign for 3 months and then play him, those months should have been the chance for McCarthy/Cronin and Casey to get serious minutes under their belt. They should have picked the first choice backup to Murray, whichever it was and just played him all the time.....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,728 ✭✭✭Former Former


    Yeah_Right wrote: »
    This is why Alby should have been signed for the rest of the season.

    It was never going to happen unfortunately. If Mathewson stayed, one of two things would happen:
    1) they'd actually pick him, in which case a key centrally-contracted Irish player is languishing on the bench and not getting game time to come back into form.
    2) he'd continue to bench behind Murray, in which case bringing McCarthy down from Leinster was a waste of everyone's time.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,955 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    Either sign him till the end of the season or not at all. Having him there for the first few months just puts McCarthy/Cronin/Casey in a less good position going into Saracens away than they could have been in.

    Anyway, I think they should throw Casey in this weekend. Having him come on in the last 15 mins could be good with his top-notch passing.

    Absolutely agree with that. I suspect they were thinking that Murray would return from the RWC with another injury and they would extend Alby again. Unfortunately Murray came back healthy (joking) and in **** form.

    What I have seen of the 3 back-ups (which admittedly hasn't been a lot) has not inspired me with confidence. However they are young so there is room for improvement. I think Munster should chuck these guys in the deep end and see how they go. Send Murray on holiday to Fiji for a few months.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,597 ✭✭✭✭errlloyd


    Yeah_Right wrote: »
    What I have seen of the 3 back-ups (which admittedly hasn't been a lot) has not inspired me with confidence. However they are young so there is room for improvement. I think Munster should chuck these guys in the deep end and see how they go. Send Murray on holiday to Fiji for a few months.

    Nick McCarthy was good enough to bench for Leinster in European Cup knockout games 2 seasons ago.


  • Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    errlloyd wrote: »
    Nick McCarthy was good enough to bench for Leinster in European Cup knockout games 2 seasons ago.

    For a period Leinster opted to drop Lowe in order to keep McCarthy off the 23. I don't expect him to amount to more than a bridge player while Casey is developed.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 9,977 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    errlloyd wrote: »
    Nick McCarthy was good enough to bench for Leinster in European Cup knockout games 2 seasons ago.

    That's not quite how I remember it; my recollection is there was considerable concern about McCarthy on the bench?

    Wasn't it the case that only two from JGP, Fardy and Lowe could be selected? If that rule hadn't been in place, and both JGP and McGrath had been fit, I don't think McCarthy would have been selected.


  • Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    It's worth pointing out that Munster signed Nick McCarthy (announced October 2018) prior to Craig Casey bursting on the scenes for the U20s in the 2019 Six Nations. Casey had injuries that had affected his development/opportunities to that point.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,248 ✭✭✭kingofthekong


    For a period Leinster opted to drop Lowe in order to keep McCarthy off the 23. I don't expect him to amount to more than a bridge player while Casey is developed.

    At the rate munster are developing players you could be waiting a while to see Casey..

    There is very little suggesting an AIL journey man in Cronin should be getting any gametime ahead of one of the best under age 9s weve had in a while

    Sometimes you have to take short term risks for long term gain...same goes for Wren, French, Hodnett, O'sullivan, Flannery, Healy


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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,597 ✭✭✭✭errlloyd


    I didn't love having Nick McCarthy on the bench for Leinster. But the narrative in this thread is Alby should have been kept because having Nick McCarthy on the bench is unthinkable, he played in the Champions Cup semi v Toulon...


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