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Electric, Hydrogen & Hybrid Electric Buses in Ireland

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    #452
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    bk wrote: »
    From the video, it looks like these don't have any of the operator branding, so I'd assume that will be added later. Probably just wanted to focus on the TFI branding for this reveal as these buses will be headed to both DB and BE.

    BTW Does this mean BE are shifting to dual door operations too? Or will the BE ones come with a separate single door spec?

    I like the different colour and symbols for the priority seats. But I think this missed a trick here not also doing the same for the two "buggy" seats. I think they should have made those blue (to match the colour on the ground and differentiate from the standard priority seats), with a buggy symbol and they could do the same with the wheelchair seat.

    I think the lack of colour for the buggy seats will cause issues and confusion.

    The specifying authority have missed a trick by not deleting the flip-down seats in the Buggy Space.

    They cause a significant amount of discussion,confusion and confrontation between Able-Bodied and Mobility Challenged passengers.

    As noted by another poster,this pair of seats serve to reduce the chances of taking on both an occupied buggy AND a Wheelchair,as almost without fail they will be occupied by ordinary passengers,who often will cling to the seats for dear life,even when faced with a babby in a pram staring them down.

    Removing these seats and replacing with padded Bum-Perches would still facilitate an adult to monitor the chizzler in the buggy during the journey.

    However,I suspect that the NTA are still keen on avoiding direct comparisons between seating capacity on newer vehicles compared to older single doored vehicles...;)


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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    #453
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    bk wrote: »

    I'd assume most people wouldn't appreciate you parking the buggy there and then leaving your child there and going upstairs while the people sitting there get to stare at your child :D

    A scenario not as uncommon as you might suspect........:eek: ;)


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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    #454
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    AlekSmart wrote: »
    Largely a non-issue,as a smashed mirror will lie you by the roadside quite as easily.

    The RVC systems currently on offer are constructed and wired to Military standards.
    The quality and fields of view offered by the systems are far better than mirror,and largely eliminate blind spots currently caused by large mirror frames.
    In addition the systems compensate for poor lighting,and importantly,rainfall to give a sharp,clear image.

    From a drivers perspective it really is a positive development,and from my own experience,a spin of 15 minutes had me very comfortable with driving such a vehicle.

    Th UK Construction & Use regulations,since last October have allowed for the operation of these systems without backup glass mirrors,as had been required under previous regs.

    The Bus Engineering world is VERY traditionally minded,something often carried on into the operational sector,with long ingrained resistance to any deviation from the good'ol days.

    Much of the debate is now largely irrelevant as all of the major bodybuilders are now offering these systems,something which has already seen the unit cost reducing.

    In addition,TfL's newest Bus Safety Standards mandate the Camera Systems for all new London Bus deliveries from 2021,along with a series of other measures which will quite quickly start to appear on our vehicles too.

    https://www.smmt.co.uk/2019/12/tfl-recognises-alexander-dennis-for-work-on-londons-bus-safety-standard/

    Daimler-Benz were probably the first Manufacturer to offer the units as standard options in Ireland,fitted to their Actros Tractor Units,since late 2019.

    https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/12/20191214-mirrorcam.html

    For me,at any rate,it was disappointing to see the NTA not being prepared to broaden their focus when specifying the new fleet.

    I was more thinking of repairing the mirrors. For example if a mirror was to be smashed in service or a defective mirror was found in a first use check I'm guessing it would be a simple case of maintence being sent out to replace the mirror who could do so there and then on the roadside and then the bus in this instance but could continue on it's journey. I've actually seen this being done outside Donnybrook garage once at the changeover point. Whereas the camera system may take longer to fix.

    Mind you the camera system may be easier for the driver as they would not have to take into account the protruding mirror when pulling in at bus stops or when turning corners and possibly safer.


  • Options
    #455
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    bk wrote: »
    Ah, I hadn't come across any dual door in Cork yet! But I haven't been down much in the past year.

    I think they might be more prominent in Galway and Limerick than they are in Cork. When I was in Galway over the summer most of the buses there seemed to be dual door VWDs. They use they on the 101 Dublin to Drogheda route aswell which I think is a bit of a silly allocation as I wouldn't think they're the most comfortable on a nearly 50km journey. BE should consider swapping these out for some of the more comfortable single door VWDs in Cork as dual door buses would be more appropriate on city routes.


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    #456
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,584 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    These are also to have full destination displays on the back rather than just showing the number as well.

    The back features A LOT of vents as well.


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    #457
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    I noticed these are different to the one on test in db fleet. I know 2 are SG body type but the Alexander Dennis version has changed, over the windscreen the wipers are hidden slightly compared to previous with them standing out.

    No body make name on the front either.

    Can't see any photos of the rear yet.


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    #458
    john boye
    Registered Users Posts: 1,492 ✭✭✭john boye


    devnull wrote: »

    The back features A LOT of vents as well.

    Yes there wouldn't be much room for an operator's logo even if they wanted one.

    I think it's a good base livery but it's maybe lacking one or two finishing touches. The front and rear are very bare obviously but I'm surprised they haven't gone with some script or graphics on some part of it to advertise the hybrid benefits.

    I have to say the raked windscreen (a DB specification) looks very smart and is a big improvement on the standard one.


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    #459
    ax586
    Registered Users Posts: 234 ✭✭ax586


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    I noticed these are different to the one on test in db fleet. I know 2 are SG body type but the Alexander Dennis version has changed, over the windscreen the wipers are hidden slightly compared to previous with them standing out.

    No body make name on the front either.

    Can't see any photos of the rear yet.

    Here is there rear


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    #460
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Nowhere for the scrotes to hang onto....
    That's a plus, I really don't want to be in the coroners court again.... Unrelated to this but still an incident onboard.

    I wonder will these have the same smell issues as the EV and also the noise from the rear engine, obviously it's now a generator but still the noise.....


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    #461
    dublinman1990
    Registered Users Posts: 8,300 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    Nice one. They are pretty good buses with nice looking seats & interior. I love the green on the seats.

    There's some more pictures from Irish Transport forum website particularly on the new front destination panel.

    The display is showing the 150 to Rossmore with the route number in a new font. The font for the destinations are unchanged.

    https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201210/009a1c9ba88b4fedb39450820cbe28bd.jpg

    Does anyone know what font it is? Is it one provided by ADL?

    These new hybrid buses also have 2 wheelchair ramps on the lower deck with a manual ramp placed under the middle doors.

    https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201210/8d457d90c7446a876e4c2c43b84f686d.jpg

    The decals on the Dublin Bus hybrid buses are smaller than Bus Eireann's decals but they are somewhat readable.

    https://attachment.tapatalk-cdn.com/12733/202012/3858985_e41cc96912d1e234e90568bf6d9c4341_t.jpg?Expires=1607853163&Signature=XEBg4nc1E5DpE0748t-7jwnhWF9Cj04HJvsdyRg~YbXGMe~LQ8eFHrb1zAw2tbQiWwjXzOCEfgw8~LRHFxP~MIgbvKJff4CXbm5bB3PabYiMypIB9g8ODjOjdIjmUrnBKdEBah0U8CNZYMVpNO8ljzLK0b2A4OkdNYWVFyhPBF75m-cieiD0M9B8C1Uj9PB5Z6Vm9wRRUVJpM~tbgxYllnwmruJbMkYQVIu7a~DlNZuSUg8bwQ8mgji4TdA9ja0giCIo2pdLhh-ilnUJ2ri6PJk3ewumLMK6dpqda9gomD1uABmeaY1gda7DP8GvvwfKoXc0HLnW3JUFTalFGhGdSw__&Key-Pair-Id=APKAJS72YROXJYGYDADA


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    #462
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    I noticed these are different to the one on test in db fleet. I know 2 are SG body type but the Alexander Dennis version has changed, over the windscreen the wipers are hidden slightly compared to previous with them standing out.

    No body make name on the front either.

    Can't see any photos of the rear yet.

    These are plug in hybrid whereas the ones on trial are all regular hybrids that do not have a plug in feature. Also the buses on trial are the Enviro 400MMC bodywork whilst these are the Enviro 400 City bodywork.

    I think the reason they went for these is because as opposed to the MMC is because they can be customised easier with the recessed windscreen which has been on every DB bus since the 01 AVs. The AHs do not have this feature. The main thing I'm disappointed with is the fact that they appear to have gone for the same type of bucket seats that are on the SG, GT and VT and not the more comfortable type that are on the AH and the 182 onward Bus Eireann VWD.


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    #463
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users Posts: 18,921 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    GT89 wrote: »
    These are plug in hybrid whereas the ones on trial are all regular hybrids that do not have a plug in feature. Also the buses on trial are the Enviro 400MMC bodywork whilst these are the Enviro 400 City bodywork.

    I think the reason they went for these is because as opposed to the MMC is because they can be customised easier with the recessed windscreen which has been on every DB bus since the 01 AVs. The AHs do not have this feature. The main thing I'm disappointed with is the fact that they appear to have gone for the same type of bucket seats that are on the SG, GT and VT and not the more comfortable type that are on the AH and the 182 onward Bus Eireann VWD.

    Are you talking here about the top of the windscreen how it goes under the upper saloon?

    How have I never cottoned onto that difference? Why the difference?


  • Options
    #464
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    I see a difference in windows upstairs where front side ones have no opening on them.


  • Options
    #465
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    BonnieSituation wrote: »
    Are you talking here about the top of the windscreen how it goes under the upper saloon?

    How have I never cottoned onto that difference? Why the difference?

    It gives the driver better peripheral vision I believe. Something which is wanted by the unions vehicle design committee


  • Options
    #466
    StreetLight
    Registered Users Posts: 1,388 ✭✭✭StreetLight


    BonnieSituation wrote: »
    Are you talking here about the top of the windscreen how it goes under the upper saloon?

    How have I never cottoned onto that difference? Why the difference?

    It reduces reflection from the interior saloon lighting at night.


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    #467
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Looking at the rear there is no model name or like previous with volvo chassis they had that on too.

    I know it's not Volvo now but would expect to see some identification.


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    #468
    p_haugh
    Registered Users Posts: 1,117 ✭✭✭p_haugh


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    Looking at the rear there is no model name or like previous with volvo chassis they had that on too.

    I know it's not Volvo now but would expect to see some identification.

    Could be a case of the badges still needing to be applied?


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    #469
    dublinman1990
    Registered Users Posts: 8,300 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    Will the Dublin Bus Wright/ADL trial hybrids to be allocated to another route from a different garage. I do think that the NTA will have to repaint these buses with the new TFI Hybrid livery & white hanover LED panels which could be applied on the outside of them, maybe sometime after Christmas, as they are permanently staying on with Dublin Bus.


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    #470
    p_haugh
    Registered Users Posts: 1,117 ✭✭✭p_haugh


    dublinman1990 wrote: »
    as they are permanently staying on with Dublin Bus.

    Is this confirmed?


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    #471
    dublinman1990
    Registered Users Posts: 8,300 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    p_haugh wrote: »
    Is this confirmed?

    Well; I thought that was confirmed ages ago. I looked up comments on Irish road passenger forum & Youtube on these buses some months ago. Some commenters were saying that they will be staying with Dublin Bus but it appears that there is maybe some confusion about it. If they go back to the UK after these buses will finish their trials; it will be an utter kick in the proverbial for me if I do get that info wrong because I was certain that it was correct.

    The one potential failing that I see here on boards is that we have nobody who is posting here, while working within the higher up ends of the NTA, to officially say what arrangements will apply afterwards when the hybrid bus trial with Dublin Bus is officially over. I know this forum has posters on here who work as staff members of Dublin Bus, IÉ, GAI & possibly BÉ & Luas as well. However; I don't know any NTA officials who is posting here to give us critically important information, by of live Q&A sessions to posters here on boards, about how their new transport projects actually work for members of the public while they live & work here.

    I know this subject maybe going off topic right now but it should be something that should be looked at in future.

    What I was saying about last year's hybrid buses is that, at the present time, they are still working on their duties on the 25/A/B in Conyngham Road Garage probably until after the new year. And we don't know what is actually happening with the older hybrids once they finish up their time on the trial.

    When Bus Eireann have their 3 new hydrogen fuel cell buses coming in the new year; apparently these buses were purchased to own outright rather than being leased to BÉ. Is that still the case because I read the Dublin Inquirer & it may have suggested to me that they maybe staying permanently with BÉ.


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    #472
    john boye
    Registered Users Posts: 1,492 ✭✭✭john boye


    So we desperately need a spokesperson from the NTA on this forum to tell us critically important information like whether the 9 hybrid trial buses are staying or not. Righto.


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    #473
    dublinman1990
    Registered Users Posts: 8,300 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    ^^^^^^^

    It's not just on hybrid buses though. I am talking about it in the context from when the NTA release any major NTA transport project all across The Republic of Ireland. It's just that while we are in a period of increasing climate change in this country & around the world. We should have someone on from the NTA to answer questions from any poster, via live Q&A sessions here on Boards, about the various projects that they are proposing to us who live & work in any part of the country.

    I don't know if my idea will gain much traction here on boards. This type of proposal probably would not be as easy to set up if officials in the NTA are busy with doing other work when they already have a small number of staff members available at the present time. What does everybody think of this idea?

    RE: The new ADL hybrids. The BÉ batch are being renamed to PAL. DB will be coded PA. BÉ's batch will be PAL1 - PAL26. DB's batch will be PA26 - PA74.

    Also; the big black squared screen located inside the lower deck of the ADL hybrids, near the middle doors, are information screens that were designed specifically for wheelchair users. I actually don't know what type of information is going to be on them to be fair. But it will be interesting to see what information they would display on them for anyone who is currently living or working in that capacity.


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    #474
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    Yeah I think that would be a good idea if someone from the NTA come on here whether they would come on here and answer potentially difficult questions would be another question.


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    #475
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    Looking at the rear there is no model name or like previous with volvo chassis they had that on too.

    I know it's not Volvo now but would expect to see some identification.

    It's an intergral ADL chassis. Engine on the hybrids is made by a company called BAE Systems but they are not branded as ADL contracted the manufacturing of the engine out.

    Read on the other site that the DB Enviros are being built in the ADL plant in Scarborough whilst the the BE ones are being built in Falkirk in Scotland.


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    #476
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,584 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    GT89 wrote: »
    Yeah I think that would be a good idea if someone from the NTA come on here whether they would come on here and answer potentially difficult questions would be another question.
    dublinman1990 wrote: »
    It's not just on hybrid buses though. I am talking about it in the context from when the NTA release any major NTA transport project all across The Republic of Ireland. It's just that while we are in a period of increasing climate change in this country & around the world. We should have someone on from the NTA to answer questions from any poster, via live Q&A sessions here on Boards, about the various projects that they are proposing to us who live & work in any part of the country.
    dublinman1990 wrote: »
    The one potential failing that I see here on boards is that we have nobody who is posting here, while working within the higher up ends of the NTA, to officially say what arrangements will apply afterwards when the hybrid bus trial with Dublin Bus is officially over. I know this forum has posters on here who work as staff members of Dublin Bus, IÉ, GAI & possibly BÉ & Luas as well. However; I don't know any NTA officials who is posting here to give us critically important information, by of live Q&A sessions to posters here on boards, about how their new transport projects actually work for members of the public while they live & work here.

    I know this subject maybe going off topic right now but it should be something that should be looked at in future. .

    As has been noted this kind of discussion is completely off-topic for this thread.

    Also I'd like to correct some misconceptions. We do not have anyone posting here representing any transport companies and to my knowledge we never have done. The closest we have got to that is a bus driver taking part in an AMA a while back, but that was still posting in a personal capacity.

    We may or may not have staff here who are working for transport companies or industry bodies in the state, but Boards would see them as posting in a personal capacity rather than representing the views of the companies that they may or may not work for and this very much needs to be bore in mind by all members.

    May I also remind you that it is against the rules to speculate on the identity of a poster.

    Now lets get back on topic.

    - Moderator


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    #477
    thenightman
    Registered Users Posts: 561 ✭✭✭thenightman


    So it's the non SG hybrids that are being bought? thank god for that. Awful uncomfortable buses. Been on the Dennis hybrid model on the 25A and they were luxurious in comparison to the SG boneshakers.


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    #478
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    thenightman wrote: »
    So it's the non SG hybrids that are being bought? thank god for that. Awful uncomfortable buses. Been on the Dennis hybrid model on the 25A and they were luxurious in comparison to the SG boneshakers.

    Yes it's them. Non Volvo or wright this time....

    It's like going back to 1994 but just not involved in Volvo anymore.

    The sg are shocking for comfort and back trouble from them especially as a passenger isn't good at all.

    People need to complain to the council though where there are lot holes and bad section, I do and sometimes they fix them. Takes time.


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    #479
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,584 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    thenightman wrote: »
    So it's the non SG hybrids that are being bought? thank god for that. Awful uncomfortable buses. Been on the Dennis hybrid model on the 25A and they were luxurious in comparison to the SG boneshakers.

    They're different vehicles to any of the ones that were on trial.

    They're from the same manufacturer as these, but not the same model, interior or technology:
    https://www.flickriver.com/photos/shamrock_105/48889690108/


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    #480
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    Yes it's them. Non Volvo or wright this time....

    It's like going back to 1994 but just not involved in Volvo anymore.

    The sg are shocking for comfort and back trouble from them especially as a passenger isn't good at all.

    People need to complain to the council though where there are lot holes and bad section, I do and sometimes they fix them. Takes time.

    I personally find the 07 VTs to have the most uncomfortable seats for passengers. The SG and GT seats are slightly better than them. Hate the seats on the EVs though as they have so little legroom.

    I'm dispointed they are not going for the Esteban Civic V2 seats which is what's on the AHs and some of the Bus Eireann VWDs.


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    #481
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    GT89 wrote: »
    I personally find the 07 VTs to have the most uncomfortable seats for passengers. The SG and GT seats are slightly better than them. Hate the seats on the EVs though as they have so little legroom.

    I'm dispointed they are not going for the Esteban Civic V2 seats which is what's on the AHs and some of the Bus Eireann VWDs.


    They look more expensive and the seats get wrecked a lot, people soiling them, cutting them up, chewing gum etc etc....


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