Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all,
Vanilla are planning an update to the site on April 24th (next Wednesday). It is a major PHP8 update which is expected to boost performance across the site. The site will be down from 7pm and it is expected to take about an hour to complete. We appreciate your patience during the update.
Thanks all.

Electric, Hydrogen & Hybrid Electric Buses in Ireland

Options
1…78101213…48

Comments

  • Options
    #272
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Thought with ryno at the helm we would be getting nothing but bikes..


  • Options
    #273
    Peregrine
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    Weird I thought we were getting the Alexander double decks.

    Up to 600 hybrid double deckers with the initial order of 100 due to start delivery in the coming months (probably post October)
    Up to 200 battery electric single deckers
    3 hydrogen fuel cell double deckers (all going to BÉ)


  • Options
    #274
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    p_haugh wrote: »
    Somewhat related to this, turns out the NTA put out a tender in may for up to 200 fully electric single deck buses: https://twitter.com/DublinCommuters/status/1291729050873077760?s=19

    They really need to stop appeasing the green agenda. Electric buses using lithium batteries mined using child labour in Africa more than likely. Emissions from public transport are not the issue car use is.


  • Options
    #275
    Ce he sin
    Registered Users Posts: 213 ✭✭Ce he sin


    GT89 wrote: »
    They really need to stop appeasing the green agenda. Electric buses using lithium batteries mined using child labour in Africa more than likely. Emissions from public transport are not the issue car use is.


    Lithium is being mined in Africa now? What happened to Australia and South America?


  • Options
    #276
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    Ce he sin wrote: »
    Lithium is being mined in Africa now? What happened to Australia and South America?

    What's the point electric buses can carry less than diesel buses due to the battery taking valuable passenger space and weight requirements. The NTA need to buy more tri axles or put the infrastructure in place for articulated vehicles not effing about with lower capacity hybrid and electric vehicles


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #277
    Atlantic Dawn
    Registered Users Posts: 81,153 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    Will they be poverty spec with no AC?


  • Options
    #278
    thenightman
    Registered Users Posts: 561 ✭✭✭thenightman


    The fully electric airport shuttle mentioned is from Crowne Plaza Northwood to the Airport and nothing to do with NTA, rather it's something of an enthusiasts project from within the hotel group. From a different financial time too, in comparison to current stark financial reality for hospitality industry.


  • Options
    #279
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Atlantic Dawn wrote: »
    Will they be poverty spec with no AC?

    110% yes no a/c and cheapest crappiest seats they could find.... Driver is just a number .....

    Luckily we don't get the London weather but still ....

    Fogged up windows throughout the winter and a sweat box in the summer...... Doesn't help most sg pump heat always even if turned to cold.... Bone shakers, my bones can't keep taking it....


  • Options
    #280
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    thenightman wrote: »
    The fully electric airport shuttle mentioned is from Crowne Plaza Northwood to the Airport and nothing to do with NTA, rather it's something of an enthusiasts project from within the hotel group. From a different financial time too, in comparison to current stark financial reality for hospitality industry.

    What year is that?


  • Options
    #281
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    GT89 wrote: »
    What's the point electric buses can carry less than diesel buses due to the battery taking valuable passenger space and weight requirements. The NTA need to buy more tri axles or put the infrastructure in place for articulated vehicles not effing about with lower capacity hybrid and electric vehicles

    Not if on the roof but they are getting better with space I believe for doubles


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #282
    Qrt
    Registered Users Posts: 1,627 ✭✭✭Qrt


    Ce he sin wrote: »
    Lithium is being mined in Africa now? What happened to Australia and South America?

    I think it’s more the cobalt from the Congo.


  • Options
    #283
    Atlantic Dawn
    Registered Users Posts: 81,153 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    110% yes no a/c and cheapest crappiest seats they could find.... Driver is just a number .....

    Luckily we don't get the London weather but still ....

    Fogged up windows throughout the winter and a sweat box in the summer...... Doesn't help most sg pump heat always even if turned to cold.... Bone shakers, my bones can't keep taking it....


    Seriously? Ffs, buses being bought by bloody idiots, probably the same arsehole who bought the DART carriages with seats too small for Europeans has moved on to bus buying, sespit kip of a country. Will mean having to open the windows to breath in toxic NOX emissions from one of the most diesel polluted cities in the world, you couldn't make it up. The buses are not fit for purpose.


  • Options
    #284
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Sure solar panels and wind turbine blades are the next big bang


  • Options
    #285
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Atlantic Dawn wrote: »
    Seriously? Ffs, buses being bought by bloody idiots, probably the same arsehole who bought the DART carriages with seats too small for Europeans has moved on to bus buying, sespit kip of a country. Will mean having to open the windows to breath in toxic NOX emissions from one of the most diesel polluted cities in the world, you couldn't make it up.


    Even just for the driver, standard air it's only since GT that we could aim air away from the face when demisters were on....

    Ice cold feet and eyes as dry as the Sahara before that....


  • Options
    #286
    Atlantic Dawn
    Registered Users Posts: 81,153 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    Even just for the driver, standard air it's only since GT that we could aim air away from the face when demisters were on....

    Ice cold feet and eyes as dry as the Sahara before that....


    It's clear the people buying the buses and trains never actually travel on them, they drive in to their CIE/Irish Rail free parking space and don't give a flying.


  • Options
    #287
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Atlantic Dawn wrote: »
    It's clear the people buying the buses and trains never actually travel on them.

    Yes that's basically it and funnily people are taller now but seating space is tighter then ever.... It's actually like trying to fit into a Ryanair seat.. can't walk after.

    Suspensions are absolutely shocking


  • Options
    #288
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    Is having the assault screen closed and the holes sealed up due to covid making the cab much stuffier for drivers. Before covid most drivers had the assault half way down. I'd imagine this to keep the cab ventilated.


  • Options
    #289
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    Atlantic Dawn wrote: »
    It's clear the people buying the buses and trains never actually travel on them, they drive in to their CIE/Irish Rail free parking space and don't give a flying.

    NTA make the calls nowadays


  • Options
    #290
    Atlantic Dawn
    Registered Users Posts: 81,153 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    GT89 wrote: »
    NTA make the calls nowadays


    Any evidence they actually travel on them? :D


  • Options
    #291
    CatInABox
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,232 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    p_haugh wrote: »
    Somewhat related to this, turns out the NTA put out a tender in may for up to 200 fully electric single deck buses: https://twitter.com/DublinCommuters/status/1291729050873077760?s=19

    Wonder if they're planning on running these on the new single decker only O-Route under BusConnects?

    I had been wondering how they'd run this route and still try to reduce emissions, as a hybrid wouldn't work, the entire route is so populated that the diesel engine would never turn on


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #292
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    CatInABox wrote: »
    Wonder if they're planning on running these on the new single decker only O-Route under BusConnects?

    I had been wondering how they'd run this route and still try to reduce emissions, as a hybrid wouldn't work, the entire route is so populated that the diesel engine would never turn on

    Well the double deck ones are using a generator set up so the engine doesn't power the wheels at all the electric motor does.


  • Options
    #293
    CatInABox
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,232 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    Well the double deck ones are using a generator set up so the engine doesn't power the wheels at all the electric motor does.

    Right now, the plan is for the hybrid buses to turn off their engine while they're in the most built up/emission prone areas, with the inner city presumably being one of them. The O-Route is essentially all inner city, so there'd be no where for the engine to turn on to recharge the batteries.

    That's why I think these buses will be on the O-Route.


  • Options
    #294
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,463 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    GT89 wrote: »
    What's the point electric buses can carry less than diesel buses due to the battery taking valuable passenger space and weight requirements. The NTA need to buy more tri axles or put the infrastructure in place for articulated vehicles not effing about with lower capacity hybrid and electric vehicles

    That isn't true at all about single deck electric buses.

    EV single deck buses have exactly the same passenger capacity as their Diesel counterparts. This is because the batteries on single deck EV's go on the roof of the bus, it takes up no space from the passenger cabin.


  • Options
    #295
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,463 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    This is great news and makes lots of sense.

    Single deck EV buses are by now a well tested and proven technology. There are more then a thousand of them running around London everyday and they are hundreds of thousand of them in China (they make 10,000 every 6 weeks!).

    Yes Double Decker EV's are more complicated and immature tech, so still a few years away for large scale use. The choice of a plug-in hybrid is a good choice for those for now. And tests hydrogen buses for longer distance BE type commuter routes makes a lot of sense too.

    All round, seems like good decisions being made here.

    And yes, I'd assume these would run on the O-Ring, makes lots of sense there and avoids issues from residents complaining about Diesel and noise from buses on the route.


  • Options
    #296
    AlmightyCushion
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 35,046 Mod ✭✭✭✭AlmightyCushion


    bk wrote: »
    This is great news and makes lots of sense.

    Single deck EV buses are by now a well tested and proven technology. There are more then a thousand of them running around London everyday and they are hundreds of thousand of them in China (they make 10,000 every 6 weeks!).

    Yes Double Decker EV's are more complicated and immature tech, so still a few years away for large scale use. The choice of a plug-in hybrid is a good choice for those for now. And tests hydrogen buses for longer distance BE type commuter routes makes a lot of sense too.

    All round, seems like good decisions being made here.

    And yes, I'd assume these would run on the O-Ring, makes lots of sense there and avoids issues from residents complaining about Diesel and noise from buses on the route.

    They'll just start complaining that they are too quiet then.


  • Options
    #297
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    bk wrote: »
    That isn't true at all about single deck electric buses.

    EV single deck buses have exactly the same passenger capacity as their Diesel counterparts. This is because the batteries on single deck EV's go on the roof of the bus, it takes up no space from the passenger cabin.

    My bad but I also thought the weight requirements would mean it could carry less I could be wrong though. Althought more a general opinion of mine that the NTA need to look at higher capacity vehicles.

    Personally I think the O route should operated BRT style using bendybuses with longer stops rather than using standard single deck buses. I think the NTA should be more focused on procuring high capacity vehicles either bendybuses or double deck tri axle buses with 3 entrances similar to those in use in Berlin or Singapore rather than standard size single deck and double deck vehicles. Something like this

    https://www.alexander-dennis.com/media/news/2019/april/50-new-alexander-dennis-enviro500-double-deckers-for-singapore-in-new-three-door-two-staircase-layout/

    https://www.alexander-dennis.com/media/news/2018/october/alexander-dennis-wins-berlin-contract-for-new-double-decker-fleet/


  • Options
    #298
    CatInABox
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,232 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    GT89 wrote: »
    My bad but I also thought the weight requirements would mean it could carry less I could be wrong though. Althought more a general opinion of mine that the NTA need to look at higher capacity vehicles.

    Personally I think the O route should operated BRT style using bendybuses with longer stops rather than using standard single deck buses. I think the NTA should be more focused on procuring high capacity vehicles either bendybuses or double deck tri axle buses with 3 entrances similar to those in use in Berlin or Singapore rather than standard size single deck and double deck vehicles. Something like this

    The tender is for long length single decker buses, plus they're to be configured for standing, with only 25 seats or so. The idea with the O-Route is that it's mainly for short hops, as once you combine it with the 90 minute switching ticket, there'll almost always be a better way of getting across town, i.e. you get the O-Route to a spine that brings you across the city.


  • Options
    #299
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,463 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    GT89 wrote: »
    They really need to stop appeasing the green agenda. Electric buses using lithium batteries mined using child labour in Africa more than likely. Emissions from public transport are not the issue car use is.

    On this subject, as others have pointed out, lithium is fine, the issue is Cobalt.

    While this is a tender so we can't say for sure yet, the two most likely buses to be part of this tender do NOT use Lithium Ion Batteries, they actually use different battery technologies that contain NO Cobalt.

    The two most likely contenders are probably *:
    - ADL-BYD Enviro200EV - Iron Phosphate Battery
    - Irizar i2e - Sodium Nickel Battery

    Neither batteries include any Cobalt.

    * I say these are the contenders based on the fact that these are the two single deck EV's operating with London Bus and pretty much the only option in the UK market. Of course a black horse option like Wrights, Optare, VanHool might come along. Having said that I'd be surprised if the Envrio200EV wasn't the front runner, given the NTA's order of 600 ADL Double Decker and given GoAhead operate over a hundred 200EV's in London and seem very happy with them.

    Battery tech companies are making massive strides to greatly reduce or remove Cobalt from EV batteries.

    BTW Here is something that will really surprise you. The second highest use of Cobalt in the world is in Oil Refineries. It is a key part of the process of converting Oil into Petrol/Diesel. So every time you fill you car/bus with Diesel it is making use of Cobalt.


  • Options
    #300
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,463 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    GT89 wrote: »
    My bad but I also thought the weight requirements would mean it could carry less I could be wrong though.

    No, not enough to make a difference.

    Take the Enviro200EV, it comes in 3 different lengths, take the middle length, 10.8 meter long, takes 79 passengers. The closest comparison, the Wrigths Streelite at 10.2m used by GoAhead Ireland takes 75.

    BTW the longest Enviro200EV is 12 meters long and can take 90 passengers.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #301
    Peregrine
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    Can the Enviro200EV charge from a 150kW power supply?


Advertisement