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Airbnb - renting room + house for weekend when tenants are away

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    #32
    yosser hughes
    Registered Users Posts: 3,879 ✭✭✭yosser hughes


    j.s. pill II wrote: »
    May indeed be a stupid idea. That's precisely why

    I suggest you have a read back through the thread and look at the details. Prime reason behind the idea is that tennants can earn some money off what will be a spare room + vacant property at the weekend. .

    Of course it is! How altruistic of you!


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    #33
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,107 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    I think you'd want to be charging very little for the AirBnB person to choose a house full of (to them) randomers than staying with the owner, which is the usual option if not renting the whole place.
    A really good location might override that.


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    #34
    whomitconcerns
    Registered Users Posts: 4,309 ✭✭✭whomitconcerns


    Just to clarify, you would reduce their rent by 8 days a month as they are not there. And then split the Airbnb money for the other 8 days with them. Also pay for cleaning and deal with any issues that may arise. Sounds like a pain and an admin nightmare for the sake of maybe 4 days revenue extra....

    That's before you look at the issues for the tenant I mentioned earlier..

    Why bother?? Seriously?


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    #35
    handlemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    j.s. pill II wrote: »
    Situation: I am owner/occupier of a 2 bedroom house in Dublin. I rent one room to tenants (couple).

    I am due to be posted overseas for work next month. Posting is for 3 years. I would very much like to give the current tenants the opportunity to stay on in the house. I had floated the idea of simply taking in a new tenant in my place but they would prefer take on the property for themselves.

    Proposal: The tenants go home pretty much every weekend owing to family obligations. An idea that I have been exploring is, for the weekends the tenants are away, putting tenant's current room under lock and key and putting house + my current room for let on Airbnb (let days would amount to less than 90 per year).

    I would like to arrange some kind of split for any income that may be generated from this venture. In the first instance, I would be renting the house to current tenants so the airbnb is a kind sublet on their part. Has anyone rented out in a similar property in a similar way? What would be considered a fair split? This could be win win for all of us as income tenants get would help with their rent - which I suspect might be a little out of their range as things stands.

    I would need to give the tenants control over what weekends they want to put the property on Airbnb. Would there likely be any practical issues to having joint access to Airbnb account? I should be able to easily manage cleaning/services etc as I have family 2 doors up and plenty of contacts for cleaning services.

    I am only at the 'idea' stage right now. I'm a meticulous researcher but this work posting was sprung on me at the last minute so any help with the broad strokes would be greatly appreciated. I am researching tax matters separately.

    Many thanks


    In short a crazy /ridiculous idea.


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    #36
    Bigus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,939 ✭✭✭Bigus


    Nothwithstanding that you NOW, get on well with your lodgers at the moment, there’s a good chance when you come back after 3 years they will have turned into low paying entitled sitting tenants.

    There’s also a good chance you could get a higher income for the house if you just Airbnb’d It , without other lodgers, even if only for 90 days at peak, with less wear and tear and depreciation on fixtures and fittings and vacant possession when you come back to live in or sell.
    However you need to allow the cost of hands on management in the Airbnb scenario.

    Alternatively go full on managed Airbnb and do a heavily discounted Airbnb rate for current lodgers,on their current room (but now serviced room)which may overcome the sitting tenant scenario.


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    #37
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Del2005 wrote: »
    One thing to be aware of is when you move away the people in the apartment will change from licences to tenants, you can write any contract you want if they go legal they are tenants. So while they may agree to the ludicrous proposal and even sign a contract the law is clear that you can't sign away your rights. The proposed new tenancy laws alse mean that you might not be able to get your home back when you return in 3 years.

    If the current licensee is only renting a room even becoming a tenant will not give them any say over the other room. So in this way the ops plan is actually quite good (maybe its why they are thinking of doing it). They airbnb the room to up the income but if they come to visit or want to move back they can simply move straight back in as the person renting the other room has no say.

    Once the op moves back in they then turn back into a licensee as a tenancy cannot exist if you live with the owner.

    So the important thing for the op is to only rent the person a room rather than the full apartment as if its the full apartment then your scenario is a possibility but if they only rent room they have no say over anything bar their own room and the op can airbnb without their consent if he wishes they dont have to agree to it.

    My take on it would be (if the op wants to proceed). Rent the current lodger a room and no more. Don't split airbnb money, don't involve then in the airbnb etc, what ever you do don't reduce their rent by 8 days. Overall you are probably as well off just to rent out the other room individually, who cares if the lodger doesn't like the idea they have no say.


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    #38
    Mic 1972
    Registered Users Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭Mic 1972


    Rent-a-room only applies to owners who occupy the property
    If you are going to be away for 3 years you will have to rent the apartmanet as a whole, you can't lock one room away from the licencee.
    I may not be so easy to have your apartment back after the 3 years if the current tenants want to stay on


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    #39
    Mic 1972
    Registered Users Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭Mic 1972


    Jessa Better Restoration wrote: »
    If the current licensee is only renting a room even becoming a tenant will not give them any say over the other room.

    You cant rent only a portion of your house. Tenancy means renting out the whole apartment
    In order to avail of rent-a-room the owner must live in the house too


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    #40
    dennyk
    Registered Users Posts: 1,643 ✭✭✭dennyk


    Del2005 wrote: »
    One thing to be aware of is when you move away the people in the apartment will change from licences to tenants, you can write any contract you want if they go legal they are tenants. So while they may agree to the ludicrous proposal and even sign a contract the law is clear that you can't sign away your rights.

    It should be noted that this isn't necessarily always the case; licensee arrangements can exist even in non-owner-occupied properties, provided the landlord maintains the necessary control over the property. It's very fact-dependent, though, and from what I understand, the RTB will tend to lean towards the side of declaring the situation a tenancy unless it is very, very clearly a licensee situation in fact.

    That said, the OP's AirBnB plan is not legally possible in any case; once he no longer resides in the property, it will no longer be his principal private residence for the purpose of the short-term letting regulations, which means he would need planning permission to let out any rooms in the property on a short-term basis, period. Short-term room lets are only exempt from planning permission if it's a room in the landlord's PPR. The "90 day rule" only applies to lets of the entire property and only when it is still the owner's PPR (which it won't be if he's residing outside of Ireland for multiple years).

    OP, don't forget to consider the tax implications of any of these plans as well. You will no longer be able to avail of the Rent-a-Room tax relief on your current lodger, even if they were to remain a licensee (which is not necessarily possible). AirBnB is also never eligible for Rent-a-Room relief no matter what the circumstances. Should you rent out your entire property under a tenancy arrangement, as an overseas landlord your tenant (or your Irish-based agent, should you choose to use such a service) will be required to withhold 20% of the total rent payment and remit that to Revenue on your behalf, as well.


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    #41
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Mic 1972 wrote: »
    You cant rent only a portion of your house. Tenancy means renting out the whole apartment
    In order to avail of rent-a-room the owner must live in the house too

    Of course you can rent rooms separately, letting houses by the room is commonplace.

    There is no issue whatsoever in just renting a room to the lodger after the Op moves out and he can do what he pleases with the other room (keep it for himself when he visits, Airbnb it, rent it to another person or combinations of these if he wishes).


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    #42
    dennyk
    Registered Users Posts: 1,643 ✭✭✭dennyk


    Jessa Better Restoration wrote: »
    There is no issue whatsoever in just renting a room to the lodger after the Op moves out and he can do what he pleases with the other room (keep it for himself when he visits, Airbnb it, rent it to another person or combinations of these if he wishes).

    He can't AirBnB it for short-term lets without planning permission. He can let it long-term to another licensee or use it himself on return visits, though.


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    #43
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    dennyk wrote: »
    He can't AirBnB it for short-term lets without planning permission. He can let it long-term to another licensee or use it himself on return visits, though.

    Well he can like the 99% of people who are still doing Airbnb as they always did.

    In any case I’d question if he needs planning as there is a permeant resident in the house and it’s only a room being let. I doubt it would need planning with that in mind. It’s a situation that’s not really covered under the rules and personally I’d be using the lack of a clear rule on the scenario to mean I can do as I please.


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    #44
    atilladehun
    Registered Users Posts: 1,564 ✭✭✭atilladehun


    From what I can see your best bet is to rent them the whole place and give them permission to air BnB the other room provided the meet your conditions.

    Between the tax, cleaning and hassle it may not be worth anyone's while. Easiest solution is to just rent the other room.

    Your tax situation changes then too. It could be worth your while just keeping status quo.


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    #45
    dennyk
    Registered Users Posts: 1,643 ✭✭✭dennyk


    Jessa Better Restoration wrote: »
    In any case I’d question if he needs planning as there is a permeant resident in the house and it’s only a room being let. I doubt it would need planning with that in mind. It’s a situation that’s not really covered under the rules and personally I’d be using the lack of a clear rule on the scenario to mean I can do as I please.

    The law is very clear; the exemption to the requirement of planning permission for a short term room let in an RPZ is only available for a "short term letting in a rent pressure zone of not more than 4 bedrooms in a house that is the principal private residence of the landlord or licensor". If the OP is not residing in their Dublin house because they've moved overseas, then the house is no longer their PPR and the exemption does not apply; for the OP to let a room in that house on a short-term basis would require planning permission.

    Now, the OP's tenant, should they have one, could let out rooms in the house themselves on a short term basis without needing planning permission, as it would be the tenant's PPR. The OP's licensee, however, could not, as a licensee can't have licensees of their own since they possess no property rights to license.

    The most legal solution for all concerned would be for the OP to convert their current lodger to a tenant, charge them an appropriate market rent for renting the entire property, and allow them to let the other room on AirBnB if they choose to bring in additional income so they can afford the new rent. If the OP doesn't want a tenancy, though, then that won't be possible, and they are left with the legal options of continuing to let a single room to their current licensee and either leaving the second room vacant or letting it to another long-term licensee.


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    #46
    BrokenArrows
    Registered Users Posts: 7,500 ✭✭✭BrokenArrows


    Op, the easiest option for you would be to just to increase the rent slightly and allow them to bring in another person.

    They pay you the extra rent agreed and use whatever is left to split between them.


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    #47
    j.s. pill II
    Registered Users Posts: 246 ✭✭j.s. pill II


    Hi all,

    Just want to say thanks to all who offered their thoughts and views. Hopefully this will provide food for though for others.

    Had a chat with the existing occupants last night. They are gonna move out to somewhere in the 'burbs so they can save more. Staying on in my place, whatever the arrangements, isn't really a runner for them. So, they've been given a generous notice period and we will be parting amicably.

    Gracias :cool:


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