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Landlords rights

2

Comments

  • #32
    mollycasey
    Registered Users Posts: 74 ✭✭mollycasey


    Thanks for your quick response.

    Paying them to leave might be an option...


  • #33
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Check the terms of the lease.

    It wouldn't be unusual for a recently drafted lease to include grounds for early termination if for example you needed the property for your own occupation or you wanted to sell.


  • #34
    mollycasey
    Registered Users Posts: 74 ✭✭mollycasey


    Graham wrote: »
    Check the terms of the lease.

    It wouldn't be unusual for a recently drafted lease to include grounds for early termination if for example you needed the property for your own occupation or you wanted to sell.

    Hi Graham,

    There is a piece in the lease that says the tenancy has to last 6 months before it can be terminated.


  • #35
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    That's neither here nor there. I suspect you are misreading it, but again, that would fly in the face of the legislation and you cannot sign away your rights (as a landlord or as a tenant) via a lease.

    The 6 month thing is this: When you are a landlord and want to get rid of a tenant, there are only a few set reasons that you can do this for. You cannot just turn around and go "Oi, you, out of my gaff", for good reasons. However, you CAN do that if the tenancy is less than 6 months old. You still have to give them a valid notice period (28 days , I think) but you are well within your rights to say "sorry, not sorry, I want you gone by 10th January".


  • #36
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 13,968 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    $hifty wrote: »
    That's neither here nor there. I suspect you are misreading it, but again, that would fly in the face of the legislation and you cannot sign away your rights (as a landlord or as a tenant) via a lease.

    The 6 month thing is this: When you are a landlord and want to get rid of a tenant, there are only a few set reasons that you can do this for. You cannot just turn around and go "Oi, you, out of my gaff", for good reasons. However, you CAN do that if the tenancy is less than 6 months old. You still have to give them a valid notice period (28 days , I think) but you are well within your rights to say "sorry, not sorry, I want you gone by 10th January".

    You can’t do that if they have a 12 month fixed term lease. A fixed term lease gives the tenant additional entitlements on top of those afforded by the RTA, most notably, a right to rent the property for the term of the signed lease.


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  • #37
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,278 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    $hifty wrote: »
    That's neither here nor there. I suspect you are misreading it, but again, that would fly in the face of the legislation and you cannot sign away your rights (as a landlord or as a tenant) via a lease.

    The 6 month thing is this: When you are a landlord and want to get rid of a tenant, there are only a few set reasons that you can do this for. You cannot just turn around and go "Oi, you, out of my gaff", for good reasons. However, you CAN do that if the tenancy is less than 6 months old. You still have to give them a valid notice period (28 days , I think) but you are well within your rights to say "sorry, not sorry, I want you gone by 10th January".

    A landlord can sign away their rights to their hearts content- and if they do- it is legally enforceable. A tenant, on the other hand, is protected from signing away rights- and any conditions in a lease can only infer greater rights on a tenant over and above those as prescribed in the Residential Tenancies Act.

    If a landlord wants to hamstring themselves by giving a tenant additional rights- this is their prerogative to do so- however, if you imagine they can then pull the RTA out of their back pocket and try to invoke it in lieu of rights they have given a tenant in a formal lease- you are sorely mistaken.


  • #38
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    The_Conductor wrote: »
    A landlord can sign away their rights to their hearts content- and if they do- it is legally enforceable. A tenant, on the other hand, is protected from signing away rights- and any conditions in a lease can only infer greater rights on a tenant over and above those as prescribed in the Residential Tenancies Act.

    I genuinely wasn't aware of that, thanks.


  • #39
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Dav010 wrote: »
    You can’t do that if they have a 12 month fixed term lease. A fixed term lease gives the tenant additional entitlements on top of those afforded by the RTA, most notably, a right to rent the property for the term of the signed lease.

    Unless the lease contains break clauses and such clauses do not interfere with the entitlements afforded by the RTA.


  • #40
    mollycasey
    Registered Users Posts: 74 ✭✭mollycasey


    Graham wrote: »
    Unless the lease contains break clauses and such clauses do not interfere with the entitlements afforded by the RTA.

    Hi All, so I finally got the tenants out of my house we gave them compensation. They have now come and requested the months rent that they paid to date back as further compensation and advised they will contact threshold if it’s not returned, do you think they have any rights here?

    Also the house was returned in a pretty bad state.


  • #41
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    mollycasey wrote: »
    Hi All, so I finally got the tenants out of my house we gave them compensation. They have now come and requested the months rent that they paid to date back as further compensation and advised they will contact threshold if it’s not returned, do you think they have any rights here?

    Also the house was returned in a pretty bad state.

    Tell them to p*ss off, threshold are a meaningless charity also so tell them to contact them for all you care, a stray cat has as much power as they do.


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  • #42
    handlemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    mollycasey wrote: »
    Hi All, so I finally got the tenants out of my house we gave them compensation. They have now come and requested the months rent that they paid to date back as further compensation and advised they will contact threshold if it’s not returned, do you think they have any rights here?

    Also the house was returned in a pretty bad state.

    Really sorry to hear. Give them nothing. They are not entitled to anything they actually owe you for damage.Tell them that you take this as harassment and if they make any further contact you will make a formal complaint to the Gardai and persue them for the bad etc. They have brass necks but with these kind of people it is all to common, the landlord is always left to swing.


  • #43
    mollycasey
    Registered Users Posts: 74 ✭✭mollycasey


    handlemaster wrote: »
    Really sorry to hear. Give them nothing. They are not entitled to anything they actually owe you for damage.Tell them that you take this as harassment and if they make any further contact you will make a formal complaint to the Gardai and persue them for the bad etc. They have brass necks but with these kind of people it is all to common, the landlord is always left to swing.

    Thanks for the replies they are now threatening legal action this morning! I think I will leave them waste money on a solicitor if they want as we have been more than fair with the compensation in order for them to leave the house.


  • #44
    davindub
    Registered Users Posts: 1,447 ✭✭✭davindub


    mollycasey wrote: »
    Hi All, so I finally got the tenants out of my house we gave them compensation. They have now come and requested the months rent that they paid to date back as further compensation and advised they will contact threshold if it’s not returned, do you think they have any rights here?

    Also the house was returned in a pretty bad state.

    Yes they have the right to have the rent returned unless your offer of compensation was inclusive of any rent to be returned.

    As regards "bad state of return", at a rtb case you would need to show damages in excess of the deposit held, ie keep the repair bills and that such damages was not wear and tear and further that such damages were not included in the offer of compensation.


  • #45
    mollycasey
    Registered Users Posts: 74 ✭✭mollycasey


    davindub wrote: »
    Yes they have the right to have the rent returned unless your offer of compensation was inclusive of any rent to be returned.

    As regards "bad state of return", at a rtb case you would need to show damages in excess of the deposit held, ie keep the repair bills and that such damages was not wear and tear and further that such damages were not included in the offer of compensation.

    Their compensation was there deposit for the new property, there deposit back from my property and we covered all the moving costs so they didn’t even have to pack or unpack boxes.


  • #46
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    mollycasey wrote: »
    Thanks for the replies they are now threatening legal action this morning! I think I will leave them waste money on a solicitor if they want as we have been more than fair with the compensation in order for them to leave the house.

    Im afraid the mistake you made was ever paying them a cent, I see that suggested on here and it really is a really bad idea.
    davindub wrote: »
    Yes they have the right to have the rent returned unless your offer of compensation was inclusive of any rent to be returned.
    .

    They what? Why on earth would anyone be entitled to have rent retuned. Insane to even suggest it.


  • #47
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 13,968 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Maia Ashy Windsock wrote: »
    Im afraid the mistake you made was ever paying them a cent, I see that suggested on here and it really is a really bad idea.



    They what? Why on earth would anyone be entitled to have rent retuned. Insane to even suggest it.

    I’m pretty sure the tenants had a fixed term lease, which the poster wanted to break. The tenants were under no obligation to leave early, so they would need an incentive to go.


  • #48
    mollycasey
    Registered Users Posts: 74 ✭✭mollycasey


    Dav010 wrote: »
    I’m pretty sure the tenants had a fixed term lease, which the poster wanted to break. The tenants were under no obligation to leave early, so they would need an incentive to go.

    Thanks for all your replies. Yes there was a fixed term lease in place so this is why we offered compensation. They agreed to all of this but now that they have left they are looking for the months rent they paid to date back, which I am refusing as no one gets to live for free. They have threatened legal action and also to contact threshold and the rtb which they can go ahead and do.


  • #49
    Browney7
    Registered Users Posts: 3,098 ✭✭✭Browney7


    mollycasey wrote: »
    Hi All, so I finally got the tenants out of my house we gave them compensation. They have now come and requested the months rent that they paid to date back as further compensation and advised they will contact threshold if it’s not returned, do you think they have any rights here?

    Also the house was returned in a pretty bad state.
    What were the actual terms of the agreement you gave them to leave? Was it all verbal or written down? Did you agree to nullify the lease or terminate it?


  • #50
    mollycasey
    Registered Users Posts: 74 ✭✭mollycasey


    Browney7 wrote: »
    What were the actual terms of the agreement you gave them to leave? Was it all verbal or written down? Did you agree to nullify the lease or terminate it?

    We agreed to terminating the lease by giving them their deposit back, deposit for the new property and to cover all their moving costs. All communication was done via email. The house has also been left in a bad state with bathrooms and bedrooms covered in mould due to them not ventilating the rooms and now they are saying it is a structural issue with the house. They also have drilled holes in walls which was never agreed and I am not deducting anything for this.


  • #51
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,278 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    You have it in writing.
    Keep everything in writing.
    If they say they're going legal- thats fine too.
    It was stupidity giving them a 1 year lease, however, that is in the past.
    They vacated the property, satisfied with the terms under which they were doing so.
    You have this in black and white.
    In your position I'd be suggesting that you lodge a case for the damage they caused- and make sure you have it detailed (pictures of the mould, the holes in the wall etc)- or at least threaten to do so.

    They are chancing their arm- completely chancing their arm- however, you need to protect yourself at the same time.


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  • #52
    mollycasey
    Registered Users Posts: 74 ✭✭mollycasey


    The_Conductor wrote: »
    You have it in writing.
    Keep everything in writing.
    If they say they're going legal- thats fine too.
    It was stupidity giving them a 1 year lease, however, that is in the past.
    They vacated the property, satisfied with the terms under which they were doing so.
    You have this in black and white.
    In your position I'd be suggesting that you lodge a case for the damage they caused- and make sure you have it detailed (pictures of the mould, the holes in the wall etc)- or at least threaten to do so.

    They are chancing their arm- completely chancing their arm- however, you need to protect yourself at the same time.

    Yes it was very stupid giving a 12 month lease but our situation drastically changed and we needed the house back. I have everything in writing and have pictures taken of the mould and wall damage. To be honest I think they are using threshold and the rtb to see if we will back off. We will see where this goes and I will keep ye updated.


  • #53
    davindub
    Registered Users Posts: 1,447 ✭✭✭davindub


    Maia Ashy Windsock wrote: »
    Im afraid the mistake you made was ever paying them a cent, I see that suggested on here and it really is a really bad idea.



    They what? Why on earth would anyone be entitled to have rent retuned. Insane to even suggest it.

    Unless the op specifically made mention that any overpaid rent was included the compensation it has left ambiguity, that will mostly go the tenants way, the op should have had legal advice and a proper drafting of the agreement by a legal professional to avoid this.


  • #54
    mollycasey
    Registered Users Posts: 74 ✭✭mollycasey


    davindub wrote: »
    Unless the op specifically made mention that any overpaid rent was included the compensation it has left ambiguity, that will mostly go the tenants way, the op should have had legal advice and a proper drafting of the agreement by a legal professional to avoid this.

    I am not keeping overpaid rent I am keeping the rent for the days that they lived in the house and returning the balance, the issue is they want the full amount returned and that would mean they lived in the house for 20 days free. I cannot see how anyone would agree to this.


  • #55
    davindub
    Registered Users Posts: 1,447 ✭✭✭davindub


    mollycasey wrote: »
    Yes it was very stupid giving a 12 month lease but our situation drastically changed and we needed the house back. I have everything in writing and have pictures taken of the mould and wall damage. To be honest I think they are using threshold and the rtb to see if we will back off. We will see where this goes and I will keep ye updated.

    Mould is subjective, did you have terms in the lease to cover opening windows etc?

    But in any case, the compensation included the deposit, which is what covered any damages, I'm afraid that may be interpreted as including taking into consideration any issues with the house.

    Maybe get a solicitor yourself op? May cost more than the rent though...


  • #56
    davindub
    Registered Users Posts: 1,447 ✭✭✭davindub


    mollycasey wrote: »
    I am not keeping overpaid rent I am keeping the rent for the days that they lived in the house and returning the balance, the issue is they want the full amount returned and that would mean they lived in the house for 20 days free. I cannot see how anyone would agree to this.

    I wouldn't return rent for the time they lived there either. Just make sure you have everything to back it up.


  • #57
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    If I was you I open a case with the PRTB yourself, you will probably win. Or at least have 3rd party mediate. You'd be following the rules.


  • #58
    Marcusm
    Registered Users Posts: 10,175 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    mollycasey wrote: »
    I am not keeping overpaid rent I am keeping the rent for the days that they lived in the house and returning the balance, the issue is they want the full amount returned and that would mean they lived in the house for 20 days free. I cannot see how anyone would agree to this.

    More importantly, if this had been part of the agreement it would have been insisted upon by them prior to moving when you were coming out the rest of the cash. It could hardly be inferred that any further funds would be advanced.


  • #59
    MacDanger
    Registered Users Posts: 2,332 ✭✭✭MacDanger


    I wouldn't give them a cent, they made an agreement (which they seem to have done pretty well out of) and are now looking for extra. I'd rather spend more than the rent on a solicitor than give them anything extra


  • #60
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,712 ✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    Tell them you’ve got excellent legal advice but they’re free to waste their money on a solicitor if they like.


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  • #61
    mollycasey
    Registered Users Posts: 74 ✭✭mollycasey


    So I gave them what they were owed minus the deductions and I then found out yesterday that they never paid an electricity bill for the time they were in the house. Any ideas how I can get this back?


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