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Government looking to force landlords to upgrade

13

Comments

  • #62
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,435 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    meeeeh wrote: »
    And what has that to do with upgrading insulation? Or does the possibility of not being paid some day absolve you from all other maintenance.

    The same relevance poor farmers have in your comments..........


  • #63
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,435 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Arrival wrote: »
    Will this help improve the disgraceful and embarrassing conditions of the majority of the apartments in this country? Because we really need something to be done about the state of the apartments we have available.

    Mold, **** insulation, poverty electric storage heaters, windows with no noise cancellation whatsoever, etc. It's actually sad that developers and landlords feel that these kind of things are acceptable. There are many people in Ireland now that want to live long-term in the city centre, the days of people just using them as cheap, temporary housing during college and their first couple of years of working are gone. We need long-term city centre residents and in order for this to happen there needs to be comfortable housing standards in the apartments. Please God I hope any new developments going ahead have at least good insulation and central heating, we live in a cold and damp country yet we're seemingly too stupid and inept to know how to deal with these conditions. All over Europe you easily find even the oldest apartment blocks redeveloped and renovated to be more comfortable and modern than lots of our newer apartment developments. It's pathetic. We seem to have either poverty apartments or overly expensive, very high-end, luxurious apartments, very few 'normal' apartments in between, it would depress any young person trying to find a place to enjoy their lives to the fullest in our city centres

    It's also sad as **** that property/renting is pretty much the only investment avenue in Ireland, this definitely plays a part in the crazy rental situation here. All involved with the implementation and maintaining of the 33% CGT rate have a lot to answer for

    Landlords have no control of building regulations so your assumptions that this is what landlords want is incorrect. Developers build to the current regulations. If your not happy with them, make the effort and lodge an observation to the public consultations.

    There’s currently one on Part L.


  • #64
    meeeeh
    Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    This will go on in circles so I will bow out. However attitudes in this thread are nice example why state prefers institutional landlords.


  • #65
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,156 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    KyussB wrote: »
    Many landlords here just love to have a microscopic focus on only one part of the property market - as if a property exiting the rental market, doesn't pop up on AirBnB or get sold to people who will live in it (or rent it out once again...) - or they expect us to believe that landlords will leave the property idle when rents are at their most lucrative ever, and prices too.

    It's a load of transparent bollocks. Pull the other one...

    There are a lot of empty properties. there are properties i Ballsbridge which have been on the rental market for months because the landlords are afraid of being trapped i the rent cap if they lower the rent.


  • #66
    KyussB
    Registered Users Posts: 2,314 ✭✭✭KyussB


    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    Strange because I find landlords have a far better understanding than tenants who like to suggest landlords should pay for everything.

    To give you an example you have mentioned AirBNB as where property goes after a landlords sells it. That can't happen legally. You have to have planning permission now to do that and very few applied and nobody was granted permission. So that is that one out the window.
    ...
    "Shure landlords would never do anythig illegal" :rolleyes:

    This is the Internet forum where a fuckload of landlords were boasting "good luck enforcing that!" as the new AirBnB rules were being written up and coming into force.

    Many of them talking out both ends of their arsehole routinely, here.


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  • #67
    KyussB
    Registered Users Posts: 2,314 ✭✭✭KyussB


    Claw Hammer wrote: »
    There are a lot of empty properties. there are properties i Ballsbridge which have been on the rental market for months because the landlords are afraid of being trapped i the rent cap if they lower the rent.
    Poor landlords may have to offer non-exploitative levels of rent.


  • #68
    mgn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,904 ✭✭✭mgn


    If the try and force landlords to upgrade houses, the only one that's going to pay for it in the end, is the tenant.

    This climate change bulls*it will bankrupt this country again.


  • #69
    mgn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,904 ✭✭✭mgn


    KyussB wrote: »
    Poor landlords may have to offer non-exploitative levels of rent.

    Not every Landlord has property in the likes of Dublin, yet it costs the same to maintain a house in say the west of Ireland, but don't get the high rents.
    And yes i know the are cheaper to buy in the first place.
    If i have to replace a boiler, i don't get it cheaper because my tenants don't pay high rent.


  • #70
    Fol20
    Registered Users Posts: 3,623 ✭✭✭Fol20


    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    You see what you did there was assume things about me without reading the thread. I have insulated my properties and upgraded them so they are a much higher standard than the rental property around them.

    I still have the same risks as every other landlord. Have already sold a property this year and in talks to sell another. I pay CGT on this on top of the income tax on the rent. This is different to if it was a business I was selling.

    Your business doesn't have to keep providing a service if the client stops paying so very different.

    Did your business have taxes and charges increased on it when income dropped? Landlords did. You just don't want to acknowledge that the market changed by regulation. There are huge barriers and charges to buying and selling property so it isn't as simple as just get out.

    Ray, why do you insulate your properties. This has a very poor roi both for renting and selling.


  • #71
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,435 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    meeeeh wrote: »
    This will go on in circles so I will bow out. However attitudes in this thread are nice example why state prefers institutional landlords.

    Works both ways. Attitudes of tenants need to change in line with the rental market and their obligations to the lease they signed. Same for LL’s.
    KyussB wrote: »
    "Shure landlords would never do anythig illegal" :rolleyes:

    This is the Internet forum where a fuckload of landlords were boasting "good luck enforcing that!" as the new AirBnB rules were being written up and coming into force.

    Many of them talking out both ends of their arsehole routinely, here.

    Again, goes both ways. There are good and bad on both sides of the fence. The consistent attitude from tenants that LL’s are creaming it is becoming stale though and shows the lack of knowledge in that area of the industry.
    Fol20 wrote: »
    Ray, why do you insulate your properties. This has a very poor roi both for renting and selling.

    Sometimes it’s not about the ROI, it may have been done during other works and it was cost beneficial to get it done at that stage. Also it’s about protection of the asset. Like servicing a car, technically you may be able to leave it but it’s better to get it done. Myself, I’d rather be proactive instead of reactive to issues in the house.


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  • #72
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,256 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    mgn wrote: »
    Not every Landlord has property in the likes of Dublin, yet it costs the same to maintain a house in say the west of Ireland, but don't get the high rents.

    I’d say it’s cheaper to get tradesmen outside of Dublin.


  • #73
    Fol20
    Registered Users Posts: 3,623 ✭✭✭Fol20


    meeeeh wrote: »
    This will go on in circles so I will bow out. However attitudes in this thread are nice example why state prefers institutional landlords.

    The state also receive little to no tax from them and that’s why these big institutional ll have not kicked up a fuss. The moment the pendulum changes. 2 or 3 of these cuckoo funds will have much more power to dictate to the government what they want done.

    Currently since there is so many small ll, they are not good at fighting their causes but this will eventually change DUE to bigger ll moving in.


  • #74
    mgn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,904 ✭✭✭mgn


    ted1 wrote: »
    I’d say it’s cheaper to get tradesmen outside of Dublin.

    Not really, the few that's left around the place charge what the like because the have no competition.
    All the young tradesman left during the recession and the few that returned are now working in the likes of Dublin or Cork.


  • #75
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,295 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Maybe that's the plan. Force small landlords to sell up. Larger landlords or buyers will move in and buy. Easier to make large landlords to comply with these sort of regulations then.
    HAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHA. No.

    Small landlords will sell up. Less properties will be available. Why would a larger landlord buy the house when they'll have to spend even more money to upgrade it?
    is_that_so wrote: »
    As the FULL article states
    Paywall prevents me from reading it.
    CPTM wrote: »
    Large vulture companies are easier to regulate than the man on the street with an extra house or two.
    Said companies buy estates & high rises. I doubt that they'd buy multiple standalones randomly thoughout the city.
    meeeeh wrote: »
    Welcome to running a business. What do you think happens when customer doesn't pay their invoices.
    Landlords don't have the same powers as a business, but are told to treat being a landlord as a business.
    meeeeh wrote: »
    And you will still have your asset after the renter is out.
    Not if you go bankrupt as you are unable to pay the mortgage as the tenant is not paying their rent, and you have to hire a solicitor.
    meeeeh wrote: »
    Then go out.
    Negative equity stops you from doing so, as the bank will not release the house to someone else if they aren't going to be paid in full.
    Arrival wrote: »
    Will this help improve the disgraceful and embarrassing conditions of the majority of the apartments in this country?
    No. I'd say it'll be like the bedsits; they'll disappear off the market, and the people who once lived in them will be homeless.
    meeeeh wrote: »
    However attitudes in this thread are nice example why state prefers institutional landlords.
    But don't the institutional landlords only own apartments that don't need work done?


  • #76
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    mickuhaha wrote: »
    Should the standard not be the same as council house standards required under EU directives.

    I upgraded a house that I then leased to the council for ten years, the tenant is now wrecking the joint yet the council don't seem one bit bothered


  • #77
    redarmyblues
    Registered Users Posts: 972 ✭✭✭redarmyblues


    This world be a godsend for landlords in RPZs, "sorry you have to move out, the government is making me do it up". But seriously, regulations are a barrier to entry the cost of which is ultimately borne by the customer, yes you get a better service but it costs more.


  • #78
    riclad
    Registered Users Posts: 8,184 ✭✭✭riclad


    Anything built by the council in the last 10 years would have a high ber rating better than most standard apartments .


  • #79
    Vita nova
    Registered Users Posts: 731 ✭✭✭Vita nova


    I'd imagine some of the older landlords would sell up as they'd be unlikely to recoup the expense of upgrading before retirement or death.
    There always be a point at which it is better to sell a property and live off the gain for your remaining years than to continue renting it out, and this measure would bring that point forward for a lot of people.
    Not saying that the upgrade policy shouldn't happen just that it should be done in such away that doesn't cause a sudden drop in rental property availability.


  • #80
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Arrival wrote: »
    ...Will this help improve the disgraceful and embarrassing conditions of the majority of the apartments in this country? Because we really need something to be done about the state of the apartments we have available.

    ..... We seem to have either poverty apartments or overly expensive, very high-end, luxurious apartments, very few 'normal' apartments in between, .... for


    Not quite sure how the market can achieve a higher standard and charge less for it.


  • #81
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Vita nova wrote: »
    I'd imagine some of the older landlords would sell up as they'd be unlikely to recoup the expense of upgrading before retirement or death.
    There always be a point at which it is better to sell a property and live off the gain for your remaining years than to continue renting it out, and this measure would bring that point forward for a lot of people.
    Not saying that the upgrade policy shouldn't happen just that it should be done in such away that doesn't cause a sudden drop in rental property availability.

    You have to think if upgrades take too long to pay off that you'll be to old to reap any reward. It will just go into the fair deal scheme at the end of the day, and you'll get the same care as someone who puts nothing into the fair deal. You can't take it with you. That money might be best invested in your kids or quality of life before then.


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  • #82
    mgn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,904 ✭✭✭mgn


    A lot of tenants are great at doing their own installation, the first thing the do is block up the air vents.


  • #83
    tvjunki
    Registered Users Posts: 601 ✭✭✭tvjunki


    mgn wrote: »
    A lot of tenants are great at doing their own installation, the first thing the do is block up the air vents.

    Then claim the house has damp and full of mood....looking at the clothes on airers in the rooms and windows not opened for 4years or more....then claim money off you with the help of the Rtb service.


  • #84
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    tvjunki wrote: »
    Then claim the house has damp and full of mood....looking at the clothes on airers in the rooms and windows not opened for 4years or more....then claim money off you with the help of the Rtb service.


    Plenty of places full of mood at the moment alright :pac:


  • #85
    lcwill
    Registered Users Posts: 259 ✭✭lcwill


    Arrival wrote: »
    It's also sad as **** that property/renting is pretty much the only investment avenue in Ireland, this definitely plays a part in the crazy rental situation here. All involved with the implementation and maintaining of the 33% CGT rate have a lot to answer for

    I think this is an underestimated part of the picture - landlords here talking about selling: where do they put the money? What other investment opportunities are there which don't have crazy taxation, or high risks, high fees, or all of the above.


  • #86
    pwurple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,449 ✭✭✭✭pwurple


    lcwill wrote: »
    I think this is an underestimated part of the picture - landlords here talking about selling: where do they put the money? What other investment opportunities are there which don't have crazy taxation, or high risks, high fees, or all of the above.

    Pension funds and investment funds. These funds are the ones buying the properties and paying low corporate tax rates on the income, rather than the taxes the LL was paying.

    Any landlord who (probably sensibly) prioritises profit above a sense of civic responsibility will do this. I get on well with tenants, and prefer to keep the relationships we have rather than putting them into a corporate where they can bang their heads on the wall if something is broken. I also like keeping the buildings maintained, as they are part of the city's heritage.

    Let's see how that lasts as I age and the tax landscape changes though.


  • #87
    handlemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    lcwill wrote: »
    I think this is an underestimated part of the picture - landlords here talking about selling: where do they put the money? What other investment opportunities are there which don't have crazy taxation, or high risks, high fees, or all of the above.

    Outside of Ireland


  • #88
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,875 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    The minister is kite flying. Might, maybe etc.

    I can see this brought in when we no longer have a housing shortage & it should be brought in then. In the meantime there isn't a chance of it being brought in. It will only serve to push rents even higher


  • #89
    The Student
    Registered Users Posts: 1,238 ✭✭✭The Student


    o1s1n wrote: »
    I'd be checking the bushes outside your house! :eek:

    I don't have bushes outside the castle I just raise the drawbridge every night. Afterall I am a "rich landlord".


  • #90
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,348 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    Fol20 wrote: »
    Ray, why do you insulate your properties. This has a very poor roi both for renting and selling.

    I di it when the grant system was better. A 3 story house broken into 3 flats cost €16k to get done. With grants it was €4k so was good value.

    They changed the grant to by property as opposed to dwelling so now it would cost me €12k. That means it was a really good thing to do when I did. My own home cost more as did getting a smaller property done.

    As I had to get the property rerendered anyway it made a lot of sense and would have cost me the same at least if not more.so roi was very good.


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  • #91
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,156 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    I upgraded a house that I then leased to the council for ten years, the tenant is now wrecking the joint yet the council don't seem one bit bothered

    Why would the council care? All they have to pay is the months deposit, no matter what the damage.


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