Dublin Airport Bus Service Changes

devnull · 05-02-2020 2:24pm

Deedsie wrote: »

So will National express be providing the 779 - Airport to CityWest route?

Be great to see if there were a few stops along the route. Commuters along the M7 would use that route if it stopped at the right locations.

It's not yet known.

All we know is Express Bus has a license for it.

Anything else is just speculation and guesswork at this point. It's very much a developing picture.

soundman45 · 05-02-2020 4:18pm

Deedsie wrote: »

So will National express be providing the 779 - Airport to CityWest route?

Be great to see if there were a few stops along the route. Commuters along the M7 would use that route if it stopped at the right locations.

I would imagine it would only be for passengers travelling to the airport only in the same manner Aircoach or Airport Hopper passengers can only use the service to travel to the airport only and the services from the aiport can only drop off passengers along the routes

coylemj · 05-02-2020 7:38pm

devnull wrote: »

National Express have now officially announced Dublin Express

Will the Dublin Express buses feature a jolly hostess selling crisps and tea?

And will she provide drinks and theatrical winks

AlekSmart · 05-02-2020 9:07pm

coylemj wrote: »

Will the Dublin Express buses feature a jolly hostess selling crisps and tea?

And will she provide drinks and theatrical winks

And,how long has he been a Busdriver ?
Eh...he's NOT a Busdriver !

Classic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiBI3A2WcrE

devnull · 06-02-2020 12:56pm

Heard a whisper that the price for the new Dublin Express routes might go as low as €5 single

This would undercute both Dublin Bus Airlink and Aircoach (€6 online or €7 on bus) which is sure to stir things up.

p_haugh · 06-02-2020 1:07pm

Official announcement of introduction of Dublin Express by the Dublin Airport twitter account:

See here.

devnull · 06-02-2020 2:08pm

p_haugh wrote: »

Official announcement of introduction of Dublin Express by the Dublin Airport twitter account:

See here.

The way that is worded is pretty interesting.

It suggests that someone may be ceasing routes soon as well and National Express have agreed to acquire an operator, because this is the first we have heard of long distance services - they don't have licenses for such services at the moment.

belfast stephen · 08-02-2020 5:33pm

i have heard that Dublin Express are to apply for a Route licence for a Serivce to Kilkenny so competing against Dublin Cooach also other Routes might apper

also some of the Mercedes-Benz Tourismo that Dublin Express will be using wont be new coaches but 2nd hand ex Clarkes of London coaches and 15 of them

soundman45 · 08-02-2020 5:52pm

Dublin To Kilkenny would be very viable and Im surprised all operators have left DC have it to themselves for so long. It needs to be a direct service though Dublin-Carlow-Kilkenny perhaps

devnull · 08-02-2020 5:59pm

belfast stephen wrote: »

i have heard that Dublin Express are to apply for a Route licence for a Serivce to Kilkenny so competing against Dublin Cooach also other Routes might apper

also some of the Mercedes-Benz Tourismo that Dublin Express will be using wont be new coaches but 2nd hand ex Clarkes of London coaches and 15 of them

Clarke's is part of National Express.

There's also a couple of Kings Ferry vehicles that have been repainted in navy blue without anything else sitting in their usual depot as well so it's highly likely that they will form part of the fleet.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/138063305@N03/49379120403/in/photolist-2iesU9T-2cFNtrB-VJ5dL7-Rmg6RL-Rs3bJw-2dvpu7d-2dzRy2F-RQswvT-YzyKAd-L38t6d-TbGxDy-Rxmc4i-2dPqNsF-S28Arx-2fjKPpb-2dybWrW-2gZY13K-2b8XTiM-25NeWWC-RM4oJW-WaCY85-FoXNi5-29xFJwA-28pVVuw-2aT3cw1-2aB7k7a-2h4mArB-2fQufFz-LT8Xvp-29fQGca-TgMm9j-2hsJaL3-2h4nmJA-284TAL4-2hsJaGA-2hsHanP-2hsErHc-2hsHaAV-2hsHahU-Nbkmc5

d51984 · 08-02-2020 7:15pm

Word on the street is that First are offloading Aircoach, expecting to hear more over the next few days.

devnull · 08-02-2020 7:56pm

d51984 wrote: »

Word on the street is that First are offloading Aircoach, expecting to hear more over the next few days.

You can see why they would, they've ballsed up their advantage on the Cork route, their city routes are going to come under significant pressure going forward, they're no longer the biggest UK group in Ireland and the Belfast route is under severe attack by Dublin Coach.

Wouldn't surprise me at all but I hope the Dublin Coach rumour is incorrect because of all the issues that company has which we have seen previously discussed. First may have not made the most of the companies potential, but they're still better run under existing management than Dublin Coach.

belfast stephen · 08-02-2020 8:26pm

devnull wrote: »

You can see why they would, they've ballsed up their advantage on the Cork route, their city routes are going to come under significant pressure going forward, they're no longer the biggest UK group in Ireland and the Belfast route is under severe attack by Dublin Coach.

Wouldn't surprise me at all but I hope the Dublin Coach rumour is incorrect because of all the issues that company has which we have seen previously discussed. First may have not made the most of the companies potential, but they're still better run under existing management than Dublin Coach.

I hear that the owner of Dublin coach may be involved somewhere

kenmm · 08-02-2020 10:31pm

what up with Dublin Coach? As a passenger I think its a great service? But no clue about drivers etc

coylemj · 09-02-2020 1:11am

d51984 wrote: »

Word on the street is that First are offloading Aircoach, expecting to hear more over the next few days.

devnull wrote: »

You can see why they would, they've ballsed up their advantage on the Cork route, their city routes are going to come under significant pressure going forward, they're no longer the biggest UK group in Ireland and the Belfast route is under severe attack by Dublin Coach.

Yet they're making a decent profit here. Irish Times article from Jan 20, 2020......

The growth of Dublin Airport and the increase in city-based events in Dublin were key to the increase to €30.2 million in revenue at private bus operator Aircoach last year, according to its directors.

Accounts for Last Passive Ltd show an increase in slight revenue to €30.2 million from €29.8 million and pre-tax profits of €4.719 million in the 12 months to the end of March 30th last.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/dublin-airport-growth-drives-revenues-at-aircoach-to-30-2m-1.4145782

devnull · 09-02-2020 9:36am

coylemj wrote: »

Yet they're making a decent profit here. Irish Times article from Jan 20, 2020......

The growth of Dublin Airport and the increase in city-based events in Dublin were key to the increase to €30.2 million in revenue at private bus operator Aircoach last year, according to its directors.

Accounts for Last Passive Ltd show an increase in slight revenue to €30.2 million from €29.8 million and pre-tax profits of €4.719 million in the 12 months to the end of March 30th last.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/dublin-airport-growth-drives-revenues-at-aircoach-to-30-2m-1.4145782

Yes but they will get nowhere near that from March 2020 onwards, they are facing many headwinds which are going to seriously impact their profit and it would be a surprise to see them to do much more than break even unless they have something big up their sleeve and it's unlikely First do.

- Brexit impacting the Belfast route post December
- Dublin Coach going even more aggressive on Belfast route in comings weeks
- Poor commercial management on Cork route has seen yields go down and GoBus really close the gap.
- Quite likely to lose the Dublin Airport car park shuttle contract.
- The loss of prime spot at Dublin Airport which will seriously reduce passing trade as many people won't even see them let alone use them
- A well resourced operator who has a habit of sustaining long term action to force incumbents out is starting up and will drive prices down.
- The likely loss of the deal with Ryanair to sell Aircoach tickets.

Aircoach may have made over €15m profit in the last three years but a lot of that has been sent back to prop up other parts of First. Yes there has been investment in the company but it pales in significance to what could and should have been if it wasn't propping up various failing parts of First and servicing debt that had been run up by the parent company over many years.

soundman45 · 09-02-2020 10:44am

Devnull is 100% correct, even the Airport to city centre was a huge money spinner for Aircoach, they would regularly have extra coaches to take city bound passengers leaving the Leopardstown sevice to take passengers travelling to Leeson St and further on.

coylemj · 09-02-2020 4:52pm

devnull wrote: »

Aircoach may have made over €15m profit in the last three years but a lot of that has been sent back to prop up other parts of First. Yes there has been investment in the company but it pales in significance to what could and should have been if it wasn't propping up various failing parts of First and servicing debt that had been run up by the parent company over many years.

Cheers for that. It explains a lot of the (in)actions by Aircoach in (not) supporting their services here over the past few years. It had all the hallmarks of a company with their eyes firmly focused elsewhere.

Charles Babbage · 10-02-2020 11:20am

devnull wrote: »

Yes but they will get nowhere near that from March 2020 onwards, they are facing many headwinds which are going to seriously impact their profit and it would be a surprise to see them to do much more than break even unless they have something big up their sleeve and it's unlikely First do.

- Brexit impacting the Belfast route post December

Is Brexit changing the licensing arrangements on the Belfast route?

d51984 · 10-02-2020 4:18pm

Parts of Aircoach blue turning green very soon. A lot of unhappy employees.

devnull · 10-02-2020 4:20pm

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Is Brexit changing the licensing arrangements on the Belfast route?

I guess that depends what deal there is with the EU - the rule is run under European Union rather than domestic rules and both the Aircoach and the Bus Eireann / Translink services are run using an arrangement that makes use of staff both sides of the border and money transfering either side of the border and in Aircoaches' case even NI drivers who drive an ROI registered vehicle, so would insurance and licenses be valid on each side of the border?

It may make things harder to support maintenance since operators tend to use dealers on each side of the border for maintenance and repairs, for example Aircoach vehicles on the Belfast route can be serviced at either Irish Commercials in the ROI or Dennison Commercials in the north. There's probably more stuff as well.

soundman45 · 10-02-2020 4:41pm

d51984 wrote: »

Parts of Aircoach blue turning green very soon. A lot of unhappy employees.

Did O Sullivan keep a small percentage stake in Aircoach ??
If Dublin Express is well run combined with Dublin Bus having huge capacity on the 747/757, does Aircoach really have much to offer, On the Greystones and Killiney route for example very few outside Blackrock use it anyway, whilst the residents of Killiney+Dalkey complained about the new route through Ballsbridge fact was thats where the paying customer are if Dublin Express does Ballsbridge/Blackrock whats left for Aircoach,

stephenjmcd · 10-02-2020 5:05pm

soundman45 wrote: »

Did O Sullivan keep a small percentage stake in Aircoach ??
If Dublin Express is well run combined with Dublin Bus having huge capacity on the 747/757, does Aircoach really have much to offer, On the Greystones and Killiney route for example very few outside Blackrock use it anyway, whilst the residents of Killiney+Dalkey complained about the new route through Ballsbridge fact was thats where the paying customer are if Dublin Express does Ballsbridge/Blackrock whats left for Aircoach,

Just on the greystones route that actually does quite well from greystones, bray and shankill and then up the n11. It's always quite busy. Certainly a route that would be profitable for anyone

devnull · 10-02-2020 5:15pm

d51984 wrote: »

Parts of Aircoach blue turning green very soon. A lot of unhappy employees.

Can't say that it's good news if so bearing in mind the differences in the way that the Aircoach fleet is presented in comparison to the Dublin Coach one, but you can understand the reasons that First would sell up bearing in mind the headwinds they are going to be facing sooner or later in the market.

Would imagine the other half would quite likely go to National Express.

belfast stephen · 10-02-2020 5:29pm

from what i am hearing john might be Looking at the belfast and Cork Routes and the belfast route is Under First bus Northern ireland

bk · 10-02-2020 6:02pm

Are folks saying that DC are going to buy the Aircoach Cork and Belfast routes?!

That would be the worst outcome possible, IMO.

devnull · 10-02-2020 6:04pm

belfast stephen wrote: »

from what i am hearing john might be Looking at the belfast and Cork Routes and the belfast route is Under First bus Northern ireland

The route's international authorisation is actually with Last Passive Limited, Trading as Aircoach who subcontracted it to First Northern Ireland for a number of reasons.

I would imagine that any deal for the Belfast route would include FNI.

kenmm · 10-02-2020 6:38pm

bk wrote: »

Are folks saying that DC are going to buy the Aircoach Cork and Belfast routes?!

That would be the worst outcome possible, IMO.

Why is that - I am genuinely curious - as a passenger the DC route is better for Dublin?

devnull · 10-02-2020 6:51pm

kenmm wrote: »

Why is that - I am genuinely curious - as a passenger the DC route is better for Dublin?

I assume that you have only ever used Dublin Coach on the Belfast to Dublin route and haven't used their services on any other route?

The Belfast route has seen new coaches for the last few years, often replacing coaches that are only a year or so old as they fight a bus war with Aircoach using a timetable that would certainly not be allowed if the route was fully in ROI because of the piggybacking on someone else's investment that is going on by leaving from the same stop at roughly the same time. This is not allowed in the domestic market by the National Transport Authority.

Meanwhile on the other routes Dublin Coach have been continually operated coaches that are now up to 16 years old for the last few years which were already quite tired in my opinion when they left their existing operators and are now past their best. If they remove Aircoach from the market, of which the whole new vehicles every year is clearly aimed at seeing off, then perhaps they will let the Belfast route go the same way in favour of the next big thing?

All that investment in the Belfast route with new coaches every year and the rest of the network has had very little. That almost suggests that Dublin Coach is a two tier operation.

bk · 10-02-2020 7:08pm

kenmm wrote: »

Why is that - I am genuinely curious - as a passenger the DC route is better for Dublin?

Well first of all, it means one less competitor on the Belfast route. Less competition is never good.

Second of all, from what I've heard, Aircoach treated their drivers quite well, from what you hear of them, it is quite the opposite.

On their non Belfast routes, they operate very old coaches, which seem to constantly breakdown and even burst into flames!

Dublin Airport Bus Service Changes

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