Best Swordsman

no contesy-schnooky krystopper!
(or as hes known to the rest of the world-luke skywalker)

id go for Luke he was able to overpower vadar at the end of the sabre battle in a way that no other jedi/sith could. people like voting for Yoda cos of they way he dances around when the force springs him to life. we musnt forget that the special effects in 2002 were lightyears ahead of those used in the late70s/early80s. so the sabre skills of charachters in the new trilogy could be made to look far superior to those of the charachters in episodes 4/5/6.

Has to be yoda..... I mean, for an 800 year old 4 foot tall muppet, he's got the moves... He was kicking ASS....

I posted twice.... sorry, my bad.

there is no contest, yoda wins because his fight scene was the best edited and had the best effects etc. If tou limit it to the origional 3 Dart Vader wins

Yoda all the way, i d love to see him and vader go at it in three would be the coolest thing ever!

Count Dooku beat Yoda.

Qui-Gon was beaten by Darth Maul who was beaten by Obi-Wan who taught Anakain/Darth Vader and was taught by Yoda (among others).
Luke beat Anakain/Darth Vader.
Mace Windu just sucked.

Dooku had the advantage of the dark side over Yoda. Yoda couldn't beat him.
Yes, Dooku was unfair to force Yoda to protect Anakain and Obi-Wan but hey he's evil! He is always going to use the dark side in some way. The Best Swordsman is simply the one who can win the sword-fight not the one who is 'good'.

And why are you splitting Ankain/Darth Vader: unless you are taking Ankain as just from the first movie (which would be rediculous as he doesn't exactly do a lot of swordfighting in it), it is very obvious that they are one person (mentally and physically).

Only a Sith could do what Anakain did - he is no jedi.

Originally posted by ][cEMAN**
No he didn't, he distracted Yoda by bringing down the structure to crush anakin and obi-wan, so Yoda had to let him go. Infact he RAN away!!

If Yoda is so easily distracted he is no jedi master. He didn't have to do anything. And Count Dooku made a dignified retreat to his spaceship so he would get out before he would be stuck on a planet surrounded by Republic warships.

Originally posted by ][cEMAN** YODA>MACE>OBI>MAUL>QUI

You missed one: DOOKU>YODA (and for that matter I'm willing to bet Palpatine is better than the lot of them although we haven't seen him in a swordfight yet).

Originally posted by ][cEMAN** Stand up I can't hear you - you're talking out of your arse! heheehe. Yoda couldn't beat him because he used the force? Yet you say the best swordsman isn't depenant on the force? Well which is it? And Dooku used the force against Yoda. He lost, it was when he used a distraction which wasn't anything to do with him at all.

No - My point was that Yoda couldn't beat him because he used the dark side of the force - both used the force all through the swordfight and I am not and would not suggest differently but I do apologise for being ambiguous slightly in my words now that I re-read them. Dooku did not lose. If he had lost he would be dead. And are you denying that Dooku caused that distraction?

Since the original question here is who is the best swordfighter, most of the votes and arguments are off topic and wrong, as your talking about who is the best fighter i.e. who is the best at utilising all weapons at hand including the force to come out on top in a fight/duel.

I'll stick to the original question for the moment. Best swordsman is always going to be a tuff choice between Darth Maul, Anakin/Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker. Why these 3 you ask?

1.) Well Darth Maul was trained practically since birth to use a lightsaber. Almost all of his training revolved around weapons training. He was able to stand up to 1 trained Jedi Master (who i'll remind you was at the time of his death regarded by the Jedi order as one of the best lightsaber fighers alive) and said Masters student (who i'll again remind you, was very close to being promoted to Knighthood at the time, and also a well regarded Jedi lightsaberist).

He battled both at once, and still had the upper hand in the duel.
He killed one.
He defeated the other temporarily, but his own shortcomings i.e. his arrogance brought about his own defeat as he lowered his defence, and left Obi-Wan alive for a few seconds to long.

2.) Anakin/Darth Vader. His high medichlorian doesn't really come in here. He was a brilliant duelist, with a lot of raw skill. This can be proved by the fact that once he turned to the Dark Side, he managed to wipe out most of the Jedi Order on his own. Palpatine killed very few, if any Jedi, he let Vader do it. As for why he lost to Count Dooku....

..at the time of the duel with Dooku, he was infatuated with Padme, and becoming increasingly frustrated with the Jedi Order and its rules and regulations. He was also becoming more and more tempted to the Dark Side. When he was dueling Dooku, he wasn't focused on the fight at all, but was letting his natural skill take over, and his mind was focused on 2 things. A struggle between light and dark. And the desire to save his friends. This is where his incomplete Jedi training came in, this was his downfall. A properly trained Jedi would be able to shunt aside his infatuation, his doubt, his desire to save people, and concentrate on the duel. Anakin couldn't, he rushed in, and fought with his heart instead of his mind, and thus, he lost to someone who was thinking clearly at the time.

3.) Last, but not least, comes Luke. Having received a total of a few hours training from Ben Kenobi, he went on to self train in the arts of the Jedi for quite some time. This training was focused mainly on fighting, he was after all part of a rebellion currently engaged in guerllia warfare on a galaxy wide scale. These self taught skills saw a teenage boy take on Darth Vader, and come out with his life.

Didn't he get training from Yoda I hear you shout, before he took on Vader for the first time. Answer: NO. He first took on vader in Splinter of the Minds Eye, which was set and published before Empire Strikes back. He received some training from Yoda later on, but not a huge amount. Again, using largely self taught skills, he dueled Vader 2 more times, the 3rd time defeating him. Even after this, Luke takes down a lot of people using his own self taught style, and very little formal training.

2 more things have to be noted at this point. The first is that when Anakin lost the fight to Obi-Wan it wasn't the suit that allowed him to survive his injuries. What actually allowed this was the Dark Side of the force. By using the Dark Side Vader was able to keep himself alive, but there was still a part of Anakin inside of him battling for the light side. This little piece of good meant that Vader was unable to fully commit to the Dark Side, and thus, while he could stay alive, he was still crippled by his injuries. This is why he wore the suit, it took care of some of his injuries, and thus he was able to use the Dark Side to both keep himself alive, and to fight an internal battle against the Light Side and himself. If he ever fully turned to the Dark Side, he would have been able to discard the suit, and quickly heal whatever injuries were still left over from the fight against Obi-Wan. This is why Palpatine was prepared to lose him as an apprentice, he knew a part of Vader was still good, and this made him disposable.

When Vader was fighting Luke for the 3rd time, Luke constantly appealed to the part of Vader that was still Anakin, meaning Vader had to fight all the harder against the part of him that was still good, because of this, he was using less of the Dark Side to keep himself alive, and more to struggle internally, he was actually depending more on the suit, and thus he was basically fighting at less than full strength. This internal distraction was enough, and Luke beat him, Vader finally lost the spiritual battle to Anakin, and this is why he died. While the Dark Side would have been able to heal him, the Light Side couldn't, and since he was no longer using the Dark Side, he was rapidly dying. The suit allowed him to stay alive for long enough to talk to Luke.

Again, only reason an untrained boy beat a Knight of the Dark Side, because Vader was fighting on 2 fronts, against Luke and against himself. The knowledge that Vader was his father allowed him to strenthen Anakin by appealing to and believing in him. Without this, they were to evenly matched to call.

Also, to be taken into consideration is something that was mentioned once or twice already, the fights that are filmed nowadays are a lot more complex and flashy than was possible in the day of the original trilogy, thus they seem a lot more skilled. This can't really be helped, but if the fight scenes of the original were to be filmed nowadays, they would show that Luke and Vader/Anakin could have gone toe to toe with any of the newer trilogies Jedi/Sith.

When I brought up this page, I voted for Maul as number 1 swordsman, but I'd like to rescind that now, as an important thought has occured to me, IF we're talking most skilled swordsman, we're basically talking sans force who would have won in a duel. Luke has an important advantage here, in that he never really used the force much in a lightsaber fight, thus along with his talent, it's down solely to him and Maul with his training. In this kinda fight Maul would also be finding it difficult because he'd be so used the Dark Side as an ally in a duel, and thus off balance.

Now if it was who was the best at using the force in a fight Yoda would also have to be taken into consideration, but not any of the others. At the prime of there fighting life Yoda, Anakin/Vader and Luke would easily have taken down any of the others available on the poll. The reason, because at the prime of there fighting time all were disciplined warriors highly skilled in using not just the Lightsaber, but the force as a weapon. Remember Anakin lost due to lack of discipline, not lack of skill. If it were a case of best fighter, I'd be quite tempted to pick Luke, but Yoda with his long experience in the force as an ally and weapon, along with his lightsaber, and fighting skills would come out on top eventually.

There are two things which have just occurred to me, I noticed them in each fight but never noticed there presence in every fight.

He who is distracted loses and the winner usually uses the dark side.
*Vader Vs Luke (3) Luke gives into his hate and Vader is distracted by the Anikin with him

*Maul Vs Obi Wan, ben kicks ass after Qu iGon’s death, maul loses because he stops to gloat.

*Dooku Vs Anikin and ObiWan, Anikin was thinking of Padme and well, Sith lightning, it don’t come more obvious than that.

ObiWan is sh1t IMO. In the fight with Maul he gets knocked down 3 times, he won because Maul was arrogant, Vader made mince of him, And I know he let him win, but by let him win
What he means was by showing up. He knew Vader would eventually defeat him it was just a matter of when. He looses to the bounty hunter. Dooku was disappointed at his performance, he didn’t expect competition but he expected a show. The only thing Obi wan has for him is his battle in episode 3. Please don’t comment on this with out the use of spoilers. Thank you.

QuiGon was also sh1t. Did you see the sweat pour off him after his first (short) encounter with Maul? When Maul had him in a one on one he didn’t last long at all. He was not considered one of the best fighters alive. He gets the crap jobs and wasn’t on the council, although this in part is due to his arrogance, stupidity and being weak with the force. He was least able to see the future and sense the force although it must be said that at the time the council members were probably bluffing too. My jury’s out on that one.

Mace Windu is considered the fighter on the council (next to yoda) and with good reason. He killed the Fet (SP? The bounty hunters anyway) who bet Obi Wan and some other Jedi
And who Vader puts more faith in (well his clone anyway) than in Sith lords. Mace felt he could take on Dooku, Obi Wan knew he couldn’t. Mace wasn’t arrogant, he thought he could.
Maces fault is that he gets angry. He keeps it under control but its obvious he uses some dark side engery in his battles. The purple lightsaber reflects this. Mace can control this though and it gives him an excellent edge.

Yoda is the only fighter who doesn’t use any hate or anger in his duelling. Im not sure on this bit and open to correction but didn’t yoda wipe out the last of the sith (or so he thought)? I heard something about the emperor being a clone of someone Yoda killed. Its clear he encountered sith before episode 1. Yoda is definitely the quickest and most agile. He defeated Dooku as far as Im concered.

Dooku OMG was he arrogant. He learnt a new trick and taught he was better than yoda. He bet young Anikin but he hadn’t even begun to tap into his real power at the time. I think Dooku was at his best
When he faught Yoda. It was certainly a huge improvement on when he left the order. Id say he was about on a par with Windu.

Anakin doesn’t really come into his stride until after he joins the dark side. As Vader he wipes out most of the jedi order. If it wasn’t for his injuries and that blaster suit slowing him down he would have mowed through luke. Remember the further he leaned to the light the weaker he became. He could have killed luke in a second without the suit even if he was distracted. Vader used the force a lot in his battles. He could do several things at once. Obi Wan felt this was a flaw (I cant wait to see if it is exposed in ep3) but it allowed him to take on several people at one.

Luke Skywalker. He learned in under a decade what most Jedi/Sith spend their whole lives learning. He was weak with the force, he was by no means wise. He was stubburn . I think he spent about 5 to 10 years learning from Yoda after episode 5. Still it was a lot of self taught stuff he used. He let his hate guide him in the third battle with Vader. The only reason he survived the first two encounters is because Vader couldn’t bring himself to kill his only child. Vader was a vain person who grew to resent the emperor more and more as he grew up. The emperor wouldn’t let him have a family even though he encouraged his affair with Padmé. That was only to win him to the darkside, once he won him over he tried to put an end to Vader’s love life. Sexual frustration did wonders for his anger!! Id rang Luke about where we saw Anikin in ep2.
I hear luke falls to the dark side after ep6, I well believe it. Id say he’d go down that road himself but not if anyone tried to goad him. He was incredibly stubborn. The greatest thing he learnt from Yoda as seen in ep6 was the clear jedi strain of taught. However under stress he could lose objectivity. With the proper training he’d ‘ave gone far but alas he was the last Jedi. I wouldn’t think much of him as a trainer.

Because he never turned to the dark side I’d say Yoda. Luke was as good as Anikan in ep2 but Luke put in more effort so I wont even give him a raw talent award ( oouuo harsh). If it wasn’t for the injuries sustained in ep3 Vader would have gone on to be more powerful than Yoda Ive no doubt, but after a while he would have become disillusioned with the emperor and if he had a family I think he would have returned and staed with the light side. I put most of his failings down to youth, palpitines meddling and most of all to Obi Wans inability to teach. That’s because of Qui Gons rushing him through before he was ready. Yea he passed the tests but not as the jedi Qui Gon had hoped to mould him into. Yoda should have trained him. The future he saw in him was one manipulated by the emperor. The emperor was stronger with the force than yoda.

Mace comes third.

Originally posted by TheSonOfBattles
Well, as far as I know Qui Gon Jinn was considered one of the Jedi's best fighters in his prime. But he was past his prime, which was prolly part of the reason he was training Obi Wan so hard, he wanted someone competent to come after him. That's why he was sweating so hard, he was good, but age had slowed him down enough that it was a lot of effort to be as good as he used to be. As for why he wasn't on the council, again as far as I know, he was considered for council position, but he DIDN'T WANT it, and his rebellious nature and recklessness put him out of contention, not lack of ability, talent or wisdom.

I take back the ability and talent accusations regarding his fighting. I forgot that its hard to tell a Jedis age and I suppose he was past his prime. As for wisdom, I maintain that he was stubburn, presumptious and arrogant. And as for feel the force he couldnt even tell the difference between padme and the queen. He couldnt sense the fear or danger in anikin.

It's Fett, Jango Fett. Boba Fett is a clone of him that wasn't raised by Kaminoans with accelarated aging.

I siad I know its his clone in the latter eps. You must of missed that, no biggy

You may have a point about Mace though, although the purple lightsabre could just be the colour of the crystal he uses to power his lightsabre, one that's slightly differant to most other Jedi's lightsabers. Will have to check up what the differance in crystals is.

[/n]
Id say you’re probably the expert on this matter, my ideas were expressed Here

Agreed!

who wouldn’t!

Hmm, okay, first of all, between Episode 5 and 6 Luke didn't do any training with Yoda, or anyone for that matter. What he was actually doing was putting together plans to rescue Han along with Leia, Chewie and Lando. He also spent a lot of time training alone on Tatoinne if I recall correctly. Luke spent a total of a few weeks MAX. training with any Jedi Master. A few days with Obi Wan and a few weeks with Yoda, around about the time it took for Han et al to get from Hoth to Bespin.

Does it say in the films where he spent the time between 5 and 6? He has new duds and is much more “Jedism” in his strain of thought. I was guessing he got this from yoda. A lot of time has elapsed between ep 5 and 6. Im guessing those death stars take a while to build!

Also, Luke isn't weak in the force, far from it, he's one of the strongest force users ever, same as Vader coincidentally.

I don’t see any evidence of this in the films. I do intent to read the EU but it will take a while. I still haven’t found tose books you recommended. Which ones pick up exactly where ep 6 left off?

Yes, he was stubborn, but that was the only thing that allowed him to survive as a Jedi. And your right, during the trilogy and for a bit afterwards, he wasn't particulary wise, but he does come more to his own in the books regarding pretty much everything, including wisdom. It's no suprise he's not the best swordsman in the films after all, who trained him? Wait for it...........

....he all but trained himself. He has his own style, and this is one of his advantages.

but you admit he wasn’t the best?

Um, you've never read any of the expanded universe have you?

Ive read a few blurbs and synopses. I WANT to but cant find the books (in any library). I may have to buy them * shudder*

how can you say he's not a good trainer? He single handedly trains dozens of the new Jedi who go on to do a lot of good things. So there's a few bad eggs come out of it, a lot more good Jedi come out, so I'd say he's a pretty good trainer meself.

I wont diss your opinion. My logic was that he coulnt control his emotions or his desire. He reject the council of yoda and ben. He reminds me of Qui Gon, who I feel was a poor mentor. I don’t know what Qui Gon was like in the EU but in ep1 he is arrogant, stubborn, presumptuous and at times almost angry with Obi Wan.
“That should be good enough for you”. That’s no way to speak to your friend.
And its no way to train an apprentice imo.

How you can make this comment i'll never know. I don't feel any need to comment on it more than that, as it's obviously complete shite tbh.

See this is the problem with the internet, its hard to know how serious the other person is. Read that line again :”oooouuuu harsh”. I was laughing when I wrote that. I was just joking because he was the one you picked. Only messing with ya man. Theres a lot to be said for my analysis in places even if Im missing key parts of the EU.

Quite prolly, but we'll never know.

See what I was saying was that palpitine was distorting Yoda’s ability to feel the force and that thus he is more powerful. This is speculation but its plausible.