Hearing Damage/Loss

rcaz · 22-04-2012 12:55pm #1

Due to popular demand (Good man Rigsby), here's our sticky thread on hearing damage and hearing loss. Post or PM me for suggestions of what you think should be in the first post here.

I wear Etymotic Research ER-20 earplugs whenever I'm at a show, rehearsing or playing anything. I got a set for about a fiver in HMV a while ago - the most important fiver I've ever spent.

I can't afford the really good, custom-molded type earplugs right now (when I can I'll get a pair), but I'm always amazed by musicians and music fans that would spend loads and loads of money on their toys - stereo equipment, records, gig tickets, instruments and instrument accessories - but never invest in their ears. That 1960s AC30 won't sound very good if you can't hear it :pac:

Rigsby · 22-04-2012 6:41pm

I'd like to say thanks to the Mods for going along with my suggestion.

The main message is to protect your hearing in the best way you can afford. Your hearing is priceless, so dont scrimp if you can help it.

Perhaps people could give advice or suggestions on different types of hearing protection, and where to get them.

Personally, I use both the custom moulded ear plugs and the wax ones, depending on the loudness. The custom moulded ones are excellent for musicians. They have filters that can be interchanged, depending on the noise situation. They cost around 300 euros. With these, the sound is clear and not muffled as can be the case with wax plugs. I got mine in "Advance Hearing", 12 Aston Quay. I think there is a man in Kimmage who does them too. Perhaps some one can give more details here. If you cant afford these, then go with the wax ones.

Rigsby · 23-04-2012 9:22am

This link gives another chart similar to the one above, but this time giving the decibels for every day sounds/noise, and the threshold for potential damage. It may help in putting things into context. Notice how high the "Loud Rock Concert" is on the list.

http://www.gcaudio.com/resources/howtos/loudness.html

26-04-2012 1:05pm

One thing to note - its not just noise .

Drugs such as Cocaine , E's , and strong hash / cannabis
along with certain strong anti biotics , can cause hearing damage , and tinitus .

tinitus is also a symptom of cardiovascular issues ,
and lack of sleep / bad diet/ unfitness.

livingbasshead · 16-06-2012 5:06am

Hi Guys, I wear custom moulded earplugs that were made for me buy a hearing specialist in Hearing Healthcare, Capel Street in Dublin. Once you get a set moulded you will have to wait about to weeks for the plugs to be made. They are a fantastic job. They were 170 but as you know yourself your hearing is priceless. I used to gig without them and my head would be full of whistling and ringing after gigs so I decided not to let it go any further. I'm not working for hearing healthcare or anything but once you get a moulded set you're on the road to success. That's all I'll say!

LampyJo · 16-07-2012 5:01pm

+1 for the folks on Capel Street. I play in a band and also work venues a lot didn't want earplugs wreaking sound quality so wanted so got a set of attenuators from them; worth every cent.

If you can't afford atenuators, the drum department in Musicmaker sells good ear plugs that come with different attenuation filters. They're about 25-30eu which is well worth.

planandattack · 15-10-2012 4:29pm

kbman · 07-02-2013 3:06pm

I got mine here and they're pretty good, custom-moulded.

Frank Cass & Sons, Kimmage
01 4921506
http://www.irishhearingaids.ie/branch/frank-cass-and-sons-kimmage

Going Forward · 08-02-2013 1:38pm

Good advice here.

But why do bands (and DJs) have to play at uncomfortable distorting volumes in small/medium venues?

There is a macho thing at play, along with mine goes to 11.

Loudest does not equal best.

Rigsby · 09-02-2013 12:33am

Going Forward wrote: »

But why do bands (and DJs) have to play at uncomfortable distorting volumes in small/medium venues?

There is a macho thing at play, along with mine goes to 11.

Loudest does not equal best.

I agree 100%.

However, sounds do not have to be at an uncomfortable distorting volume to harm your hearing, this volume level merely does the damage at a faster rate.

See the link below for a list of every day things and how much damage they can cause.

http://www.gcaudio.com/resources/howtos/loudness.html

sproog · 28-05-2013 11:24pm

If you ever noticed that onstage most guitarists have their backs to their amps and that the Public Address system is in front of the band pointing into the crowd . So they are not always immediatly aware of the Volume going out into the venue . If it's too loud tell the band . Don't suffer on until the end of the night and then give off to the barman that the band was too loud . My amplifier goes up to 12 but I wouldn't brag about it .

moossmann · 02-10-2013 5:08pm

You'll find the classic formula for playing live, whether as a DJ or a band etc...is to have your monitoring levels loud enough to immerse yourself in what you're playing, and to drown out a loud crowd. Then hearing protection comes in, where your music is now louder than the crowd, but you want to bring the overall sound down for your ears' sake. It works a treat for a musician, and it's been done since the 60s.

A sidenote, about bands playing too loud in small venues: rock, metal...anything with energetic playing involved is going to have a huge volume issue with the drums. An energetic drummer will be a similar volume to a very loud PA, but the crowd don't want to just hear the drums obviously, so the faders go up and up and up to compete. I think someone going to concerts of any sort should have a set of attenuators.

GTE · 13-05-2014 11:25pm

Going Forward wrote: »

Loudest does not equal best.

To an extent it does, which is a terrible quirk of our humanity.

A) The loudness war has roots all the way back to jukeboxes. People found out that the louder tracks were played the most so other tracks were cut louder to compete.

Fast forward to now and you can hear how loud adverts can be compared with television.

The significance of A is that by taking two identical tracks and pushing the volume of one up, the louder track will be preferred. Some think differences as slight as <1dB can have a significance influence on preference.

The significance of B is that people who make adverts do not appreciate how they are damaging their own sound by making it exceptionally loud. This is similar to nightclubs etc.

Personally, I do need much more to realise how dumb and arrogant people can be than thinking that someone in the chain of command thinks they are doing good blasting the volume at a club. I had to leave one as the bass was grinding bones in my neck once!

Anyway, the grumpy sound engineer shall log out now. . .

Going Forward · 14-05-2014 12:46am

bbk wrote: »

To an extent it does, which is a terrible quirk of our humanity.

A) The loudness war has roots all the way back to jukeboxes. People found out that the louder tracks were played the most so other tracks were cut louder to compete.

Fast forward to now and you can hear how loud adverts can be compared with television.

The significance of A is that by taking two identical tracks and pushing the volume of one up, the louder track will be preferred. Some think differences as slight as <1dB can have a significance influence on preference.

The significance of B is that people who make adverts do not appreciate how they are damaging their own sound by making it exceptionally loud. This is similar to nightclubs etc.

Personally, I do need much more to realise how dumb and arrogant people can be than thinking that someone in the chain of command thinks they are doing good blasting the volume at a club. I had to leave one as the bass was grinding bones in my neck once!

Anyway, the grumpy sound engineer shall log out now. . .

Yeah, granted no one likes listening to music at too low a volume either, but I just don't get this thing where everything ends up being seriously distorted, not just the guitars!

Even record shops over do it, you go in with some band in the back of your mind, with a view to buying something, it's completely forgotten about trying to contend with the wall of noise.

Old person rant over.

GTE · 14-05-2014 11:29pm

Going Forward wrote: »

Yeah, granted no one likes listening to music at too low a volume either, but I just don't get this thing where everything ends up being seriously distorted, not just the guitars!

Even record shops over do it, you go in with some band in the back of your mind, with a view to buying something, it's completely forgotten about trying to contend with the wall of noise.

Old person rant over.

It is not just a rant for the older person, I am a very frustrated 23 year old sound engineer when it comes to things like this. The "loudness war" is an interesting and quite annoying area to read up about. Wedding bands piss me right off too, but I heard some venues have traffic lights built into the stage to tell them to turn it down.

There is more damage being done by higher up people who are so small minded and quite simply very ignorant and given the decision making powers over volume.

Gavmacf1 · 21-05-2014 1:51pm

I currently use molded earplugs - got them in hearing centre on Capel street. I play in a function band and use them for the gig and keep them in when the DJ starts afterward. I find them great and they turn down the volume but still give a clear sound. Anyone any experience of in ear monitoring re hearing damage? I'm considering them at some point.

Hearing Damage/Loss

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