Jordan Peterson

El_Duderino 09 · 30-01-2020 11:01pm

Fathom wrote: »

Allows Peterson to say that he was misunderstood. Which he frequently does.

That's absolutely vital to his whole schtick.

There are plenty of examples of him addressing the question “do you believe a god exists?”. He goes so far out of his way to make the question seem so complicated that it can’t possibly be answered. But any normal person can answer the same question with a bit of exploration of what the question means.

Obviously he has to come down on the side side of god existing because that’s his target market in the US. It just wouldn’t do for him to be atheist or agnostic or agnostic-atheist. He’s pitching his product to American right wing men and that’s a predominately Christian market so the end result was predetermined the only bit that was left for Peterson to do Peterson was to come up with the 20 mins of waffle between being asked the question and arriving at an intellectual sounding justification for Christianity.

storker · 30-01-2020 11:04pm

CQD wrote: »

Some people seem intent on misunderstanding him..

To be fair, he does make it easy for them.

(I'm neither a fan nor a detractor, by they way.)

El_Duderino 09 · 30-01-2020 11:04pm

CQD wrote: »

Some people seem intent on misunderstanding him..

I think i understand the bits about standing up straight, tidy your room, pet a cat, smell the roses. That’s fine and fairly uncontroversial even if completely generic and bland. Sound advice.

Black Swan · 31-01-2020 8:34am

CQD wrote: »

Some people seem intent on misunderstanding him..

Peterson frequently equivocates. He uses this informal fallacy resulting from the use of expressions in multiple senses throughout an argument. This allows him wiggle room when called on such errors in judgement as when he uses the left brain, right brain metaphor as if it were a scientific fact in Maps, when it was nothing more than a metaphor.

Fathom · 31-01-2020 11:11pm

Black Swan wrote: »

Peterson frequently equivocates. He uses this informal fallacy resulting from the use of expressions in multiple senses throughout an argument. This allows him wiggle room when called on such errors in judgement as when he uses the left brain, right brain metaphor as if it were a scientific fact in Maps, when it was nothing more than a metaphor.

To reiterate, Derridean signature interpretation "wiggle room."

Fathom · 31-01-2020 11:15pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

...bits about standing up straight, tidy your room, pet a cat, smell the roses. That’s fine and fairly uncontroversial even if completely generic and bland.

Peterson's sophomoric advice. Compare this to his pseudo scientific lobster advice found in chapter 1 of 12 Rules.

Black Swan · 17-08-2020 2:36am

Where is Jordan Peterson today? There was a flurry of activity in interviews, vids, controversies, and his lobster book release for a couple years, now silence. Where is this paragon of the male self-help genre? Although not a Peterson fan, I was shocked to hear his daughter discuss his recent family problems, including his drug addiction to prescribed benzodiazepines. The tone, content, and context of this interview between Peterson and his daughter 30 June 2020 represents a very different Jordan Peterson than the one of years past, as if this self-help Titanic unexpectedly stuck his iceberg. Sad.

Professor Moriarty · 23-08-2020 12:19pm

Black Swan wrote: »

Where is Jordan Peterson today? There was a flurry of activity in interviews, vids, controversies, and his lobster book release for a couple years, now silence. Where is this paragon of the male self-help genre? Although not a Peterson fan, I was shocked to hear his daughter discuss his recent family problems, including his drug addiction to prescribed benzodiazepines. The tone, content, and context of this interview between Peterson and his daughter 30 June 2020 represents a very different Jordan Peterson than the one of years past, as if this self-help Titanic unexpectedly stuck his iceberg. Sad.

He's presently fighting a Covid-19 infection and pneumonia having had mental and physical health problems for four years.

Fathom · 01-04-2021 9:47pm

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

He's presently fighting a Covid-19 infection and pneumonia having had mental and physical health problems for four years.

Don't agree with his positions. But I wish him well.

Black Swan · 04-04-2021 8:13am

Fathom wrote: »

Don't agree with his positions. But I wish him well.

Indeed.

Fathom · 10-11-2021 6:55pm

Jordan Peterson: The collapse of our values is a greater threat than climate change. Sep 24, 2021.

Vid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4zZ2ker1iI

ancapailldorcha · 10-11-2021 7:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118147519#Comment_118147519

Peterson's a noted climate skeptic and this is clearly the next front in the culture war. I read his book so I've had my fix of him for a while.

Fathom · 10-11-2021 8:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118147568#Comment_118147568

Peterson is a clinical psychologist. He is no more qualified than I am to give advice on climate. I can just imagine what our Weather mods think about his half-baked ideas outside his area of expertise.

El_Duderino 09 · 10-11-2021 9:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118147519#Comment_118147519

Just look at it from the pointing view of his target market. Conservative, Christian, White men in America. They don't want to know about climate change, but an argument that sounds a bit "like more God and climate" is very much up their street. He sells intellectual sounding arguments for what his target market already believes. The anti-climate stance (though he would never agree it's an anti climayctance) is pretty predictable for him.

ancapailldorcha · 10-11-2021 11:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118147809#Comment_118147809

Funny that he seems concerned about values but the only values he seems to consistently support are material gain and selfishness. I'm not climatologist myself but a Canadian pop psychologist with a potential sexual obsession with lobsters is probably a poor foundation on which to base an understanding on anthropogenic climate change.

El_Duderino 09 · 11-11-2021 10:00am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118148777#Comment_118148777

That's capitalism. his target market is us conservative christian men. They're terrified of socialism over there (though I don't think they really understand what it is) and revere a capitalist system that keeps them at the bottom.

He sells the values variously as Christian when they're nice or useful when they're selfish (capitalist, but he won't say that).

I have t sewn the cideo yet but I'd predict thst the "values" thst make the West Great are Christian values and the things that make the west bad are a lack of Christian values. Heads Christianity and capitalism wins, tail lack of Christianity and capitalism loses.

He's just selling beliefs to people who already hold those beliefs. Can't blame him or anything. He's just an intellectual sounding Sean Hannity.

ancapailldorcha · 11-11-2021 11:21am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118149530#Comment_118149530

I'd call myself a Capitalist. I think precision with words is very important and I'd add that I also think the current way we do things needs to be significantly, if not radically altered. That's largely OT though.

What I can't stand about him is his constant prevaricating and dissimulating. It stinks of trying to maintain a large audience more than anything else. He was once asked if he believed in God and his response was that the interviewer did not know what they were asking him.

I see the whole "Juedo-Christian/Christian values" shtick as coterminous with Western supremacy. It's just a huge dump on several ancient cultures that deserve attention. If the people who make my strategy games know this and can make money off it, why can't this so-called intellectual ditch this Western-centric nonsense? I mean, I know why or at least I am fairly sure.

Fathom · 11-11-2021 8:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118148141#Comment_118148141

Marketing. Not philosophical position. Sells his books.

Fathom · 18-11-2021 6:24pm

Makes you wonder. Would Peterson agree with Max Weber's The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism? I've read it. Didn't find any lobsters.

El_Duderino 09 · 19-11-2021 9:01am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118152790#Comment_118152790

The marketing machine makes sure he only talks about the American wedge issue of the day whether they appear in the book or not. He'll be giving interviews about critical race theory and how his target market (conservative, White Christian men) base is right on that issue already and the other side are dumb-dumbs for thinking otherwise.

You're right that marketing sells books, but the message is still aimed at this target market.

ancapailldorcha · 19-11-2021 9:46am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118187338#Comment_118187338

I haven't so I can't add anything of worth. I'm guessing that this book extols the virtues individual liberty, faith and hard work and Peterson is in full agreement unless someone disagrees with him and then they're woke Nazis or something.

Fathom · 19-11-2021 7:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118189663#Comment_118189663

Critical race theory has been soooooo attention gathering of late. It has buzzword punch! Whereas, overused and nebulous racial discrimination lacks it. A good concept for those, but not all, "conservative, White Christian men" that may be vulnerable to his message. Once again, a great target market for his book sales.

In the wind · 01-12-2021 8:50pm

Just announced Dublin 3 Arena on Sunday 11 September 2022.

https://www.jordanbpeterson.com/events/

Black Swan · 14-12-2021 6:18am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118253118#Comment_118253118

Quite the tour schedule.

[Deleted User] · 14-12-2021 7:36am

What is this chap doing in a philosophy forum? He's a quasi-Jungian crank. Entertaining, but where is the philosophy? Scraps of existential advice, for example, do not amount to an exploration of exitentialism.

Jung, himself something of a crank, but streets ahead of Peterson philosophically speaking, was often at pains to develop counterpoints to dominant Christian narratives, which he saw as one dimensional due to their focus on just one side of the good-evil duality. Jung liked to fill what he saw as gaps in our capacity to understand the world, while noting that these gaps gaps result from Christianity (particularly Protestant traditions) itself.

Peterson comes along and switches this Jungian message around.. he is still filling gaps and offering counterpoints, like a good Jungian. But he seems to extolls a simplified version of Christianity as a counterpoint to the dominant cultural narrative, without exploring how problematic Christianity is in itself. Any Jungian --clinical or 'literary'-- that doesn't explore the problematic nature and grounds of their own ideas isn't much of a Jungian, IMO and is not a philosopher of any kind at all.

In the wind · 14-12-2021 2:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118318283#Comment_118318283

I don't really understand a lot of what you wrote there & indeed I don't understand all of what Peterson says but I do know that quite a few people get value, insights & direction from his youtube lectures & books.

Perhaps he is not all an informed philosophical observer might expect but for the uninformed, like me, he brings value.

In the wind · 14-12-2021 2:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118318250#Comment_118318250

Indeed, there is a big appetite for Peterson around the world.

[Deleted User] · 14-12-2021 2:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118319824#Comment_118319824

Fair enough. Didn't mean to sound snobby. I'm not questioning his value. He has clearly captured something in the zeitgeist. I just question whether he is doing any sort of philosophical work at all.

ancapailldorcha · 14-12-2021 3:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118319842#Comment_118319842

I don't think so.

Based on my reading of 12 Rules for Life, Peterson has just nabbed bits of various religions, cultures and philosophies and cobbled them together with Christianity providing by far the primary inspiration for the book.

If you read 12 Rules and your life improved as a result, that's great. The book has nothing original in it whatsoever (save for Peterson's fixation on Lobsters). Peterson himself just seems like a standard reactionary albeit one who works for a university. He's entitled to hold Christian and/or Conservative opinions but it's all standard "no, no, no" stuff. He's ranting about Trudeau and vaccines on Twitter as of yesterday.

[Deleted User] · 14-12-2021 3:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118320390#Comment_118320390

I find the culture wars stuff exhaustingly unphilosophical, TBH. Too many grounds and assumptions are left unquestioned, misidentification of problems is widespread, category mistakes all over the gaff, ufff... it's hardly worth it and his participation in that stuff is a black mark against him in philosophical terms (as it is for Zizek, with the proviso that Zizek has produced some philosophical end product in his life), but as you say, if it does a little good for someone, somewhere, well and good. Philosophy it isn't though... more like like a religiously tinged set of semi-empirical generalizations about the everyday existentials of human existence.. which should also be a black mark, really, now that I think about it.

Jordan Peterson

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