Space X, Elon Musk and Rural Broadband

nice_guy80 · 24-05-2019 2:20pm #1

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-48289204

The SpaceX company has begun the roll-out of its orbiting broadband system.

A Falcon-9 rocket launched from Cape Canaveral in Florida late on Thursday, packed with 60 satellites capable of giving users on the ground high-speed connections to the internet.

Entrepreneur Elon Musk's firm aims eventually to loft nearly 12,000 spacecraft for its "Starlink" network.

SpaceX is one of several commercial outfits with permission to fly an internet mega-constellation.

I think its time for our government to take the obvious step and bring broadband to rural Ireland via Elon Musk and his proposed Starlink network

it couldn't be any more expensive than the current plan, and at least they've got started on it

lads in rural Kerry finally able to search for tractor parts via a satellite system in space. its the only way forward

listermint · 24-05-2019 2:22pm

No this plan is stupid for our requirements. It won't have the speeds a fibre network will it's actually a silly comparison for anyone with any semblance of cop on.

kneemos · 24-05-2019 2:27pm

listermint wrote: »

No this plan is stupid for our requirements. It won't have the speeds a fibre network will it's actually a silly comparison for anyone with any semblance of cop on.

How do you know how fast it is? It hasn't been launched yet.

Fr_Dougal · 24-05-2019 2:28pm

listermint wrote: »

No this plan is stupid for our requirements. It won't have the speeds a fibre network will it's actually a silly comparison for anyone with any semblance of cop on.

Spacex will be able to provide broadband service at speeds of up to 1 Gbps per end user.

https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2018/02/within-24-months-spacex-could-begin-providing-gigabit-internet-to-the-usa.html?amp

listermint · 24-05-2019 2:28pm

Yep first two posts prove that people are taken in by the sales pitch.

I'm out.

jester77 · 24-05-2019 2:37pm

listermint wrote: »

No this plan is stupid for our requirements. It won't have the speeds a fibre network will it's actually a silly comparison for anyone with any semblance of cop on.

Once the satellites can communicate with each other instead of having to communicate via a ground station, then for someone living in the country side they will have better latency than fibre optic could provide. For city folk they probably will not see a lot of difference.

Beta Ray Bill · 24-05-2019 2:39pm

nice_guy80 wrote: »

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-48289204

The SpaceX company has begun the roll-out of its orbiting broadband system.

A Falcon-9 rocket launched from Cape Canaveral in Florida late on Thursday, packed with 60 satellites capable of giving users on the ground high-speed connections to the internet.

Entrepreneur Elon Musk's firm aims eventually to loft nearly 12,000 spacecraft for its "Starlink" network.

SpaceX is one of several commercial outfits with permission to fly an internet mega-constellation.

I think its time for our government to take the obvious step and bring broadband to rural Ireland via Elon Musk and his proposed Starlink network

it couldn't be any more expensive than the current plan, and at least they've got started on it

lads in rural Kerry finally able to search for tractor parts via a satellite system in space. its the only way forward

Elon Musk is a Looper.

People think he's the Dog Ballix but it's other people's money he's investing in all this stuff, not his own.

He called a man rescuing kids in a cave a Peado
He also set out to destroy a man named Martin Tripp
Have a read of this story:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2019-03-13/when-elon-musk-tried-to-destroy-tesla-whistleblower-martin-tripp

This is the Kind of person Elon Musk is!
An Absolute Psychopath!!!!

marno21 · 24-05-2019 2:39pm

Take a look in the broadband forum where that notion has been thoroughly debunked by people who actually know what they're taking about.

And the technical considerations are totally aside from the stupidity of putting that much control of national infrastructure in the hands of a private American company totally outside of the State's control

Mickeroo · 24-05-2019 2:39pm

jester77 wrote: »

Once the satellites can communicate with each other instead of having to communicate via a ground station, then for someone living in the country side they will have better latency than fibre optic could provide. For city folk they probably will not see a lot of difference.

Would they not be the same since both signals travel at the speed of light?

DesperateDan · 24-05-2019 2:40pm

marno21 wrote: »

Take a look in the broadband forum where that notion has been thoroughly debunked by people who actually know what they're taking about.

And the technical considerations are totally aside from the stupidity of putting that much control of national infrastructure in the hands of a private American company totally outside of the State's control

AH is not the place for your logic

Ush1 · 24-05-2019 2:42pm

marno21 wrote: »

Take a look in the broadband forum where that notion has been thoroughly debunked by people who actually know what they're taking about.

And the technical considerations are totally aside from the stupidity of putting that much control of national infrastructure in the hands of a private American company totally outside of the State's control

The state won't own the infrastructure in the NBP.

DesperateDan · 24-05-2019 2:43pm

grahambo wrote: »

Elon Musk is a Looper.

People think he's the Dog Ballix but it's other people's money he's investing in all this stuff, not his own.

He called a man rescuing kids in a cave a Peado
He also set out to destroy a man named Martin Tripp
Have a read of this story:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2019-03-13/when-elon-musk-tried-to-destroy-tesla-whistleblower-martin-tripp

This is the Kind of person Elon Musk is!
An Absolute Psychopath!!!!

Sure he gets drunk, and sometimes says stupid things. He's done a hell of a lot more than almost anyone I can think of right now to make the world a better place though.

listermint · 24-05-2019 2:44pm

jester77 wrote: »

Once the satellites can communicate with each other instead of having to communicate via a ground station, then for someone living in the country side they will have better latency than fibre optic could provide. For city folk they probably will not see a lot of difference.

That is not how this technology works and it's certainly ridiculous to saw latency is better with a mesh satellite network. That's pure happy path thinking excluding problematic variables. But sure let's not let facts interrupt Elon on another sales pitch

JohnnyFlash · 24-05-2019 2:44pm

They should have given the money to the ESB and got them to roll it out on their network and using their competency in actually rolling out infrastructure to everywhere in the country.

jester77 · 24-05-2019 2:44pm

Mickeroo wrote: »

Would they not be the same since both signals travel at the speed of light?

The speed of light is slower in air than in space. But really, the difference is not going to be noticeable to the majority of users. Maybe a hardcore gamer would notice.

Nice article describing latency in copper vs fibre.

listermint · 24-05-2019 2:48pm

jester77 wrote: »

The speed of light is slower in air than in space. But really, the difference is not going to be noticeable to the majority of users. Maybe a hardcore gamer would notice.

Nice article describing latency in copper vs fibre.

Jesus wept....

Latency is everything not just 'hardcore' gamers

Enough of this.

ToBeFrank123 · 24-05-2019 2:54pm

If it saves us a couple billion its worth investigating at least. I doubt Musk would spend all that time and money on something that doesn't work.

It seems less loopy than spending 5k to connect houses up boreens in the middle of nowhere to be fair.

Space X have mastered a number of difficult technologies that even NASA struggled with so there's no doubting their engineering abilities.

I wish we could say the same about those in charge of broadband rollout in this country.

kneemos · 24-05-2019 2:55pm

marno21 wrote: »

Take a look in the broadband forum where that notion has been thoroughly debunked by people who actually know what they're taking about.

And the technical considerations are totally aside from the stupidity of putting that much control of national infrastructure in the hands of a private American company totally outside of the State's control

Should have consulted with the boards experts before investing billions.

marno21 · 24-05-2019 2:55pm

Ush1 wrote: »

The state won't own the infrastructure in the NBP.

They won't but the actual cables will be on Irish soil. It's different with satellites

Del2005 · 24-05-2019 2:55pm

marno21 wrote: »

And the technical considerations are totally aside from the stupidity of putting that much control of national infrastructure in the hands of a private American company totally outside of the State's control

Yes it's stupid to give an American company control of national infrastructure, instead we are paying the American's €3bn+ to give them the NBP. That's a much more sensible idea.

listermint · 24-05-2019 2:55pm

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

If it saves us a couple billion its worth investigating at least. I doubt Musk would spend all that time and money on something that doesn't work.

It seems less loopy than spending 5k to connect houses up boreens in the middle of nowhere to be fair.

Yep. Handing over our national throughput of information to companies that are outside our legal system.

Top drawer definitely sounds less loopy alright.

listermint · 24-05-2019 2:57pm

kneemos wrote: »

Should have consulted with the boards experts before investing billions.

Ya perhaps on projects like his solar tiles

There is a raft of people who think just because Elon says it then it turns to gold

It's incredible handover of rational thought.

jester77 · 24-05-2019 2:58pm

listermint wrote: »

Jesus wept....

Latency is everything not just 'hardcore' gamers

Enough of this.

Do you seriously think the average person that does some casual surfing is going to notice a difference between 25ms or 90ms when they are browsing

SeanaciousD · 24-05-2019 2:58pm

While it seems like a sensible goal at the outset, it quickly falls foul of the same issue that plagues any wireless network: contention.

1. Even when fully deployed (which could easily take much longer than expected with such a massive project) there will only be a fraction of those satellite over Ireland at any given point to serve these homes. 1.1m homes into ~30 satellites (3k satellites phase one, Ireland is only about 1% of the worlds area, probably much less) is going to give to same major contention problems that already plague rural 4G networks. Have a look at any thread here about Imagine to see how their rural users feel about this.

2. Either you propose leaving the future of ~1.1m Irish citizens in the hands of an American corporation that could really give a toss about us, or you want the Govt. to invest in infrastructure that would only cover 1% of Ireland at any given time. Either is laughable.

I think a lot of people fail to see fiber as a serious infrastructure project just like any major road, ESB or old copper wire telephone project was before it. It fits in the same category as these, and is every bit as important.

What's more is the speed of fiber is not limited by current technology, you can send 1Gbit/s or 1Tb/s down a single piece of fiber, it all depends on what equipment you use. So it will remain as relevant 100 years from now as electric lines or roads. Musk's Starlink is great but once the satellites are in the air that's where they stay, and no amount of software upgrades will make their physical hardware go any faster, which can't be changed.

I get that the NBP looks like a bad deal to many, but it only came out looking like it does because we found out 3G/4G/5G and indeed any wireless solution just isn't going to cut it and never will. Starlink falls into that category too. And if we scrap the NBP it now it will widen the rural/urban divide even further, not to mention taking probably another bloody decade to come to the same damn conclusion that wireless won't do and only fiber will work. Only this time we'll be behind the rest of Europe instead of ahead.

KildareP · 24-05-2019 3:00pm

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

They should have given the money to the ESB and got them to roll it out on their network and using their competency in actually rolling out infrastructure to everywhere in the country.

The money was on offer to the ESB.

ESB turned it down.

https://siro.ie/nbp-announcement/

listermint · 24-05-2019 3:02pm

jester77 wrote: »

Do you seriously think the average person that does some casual surfing is going to notice a difference between 25ms or 90ms when they are browsing

Enough with the notion of browsing.

This crap has to be stamped out. Most people are doing a hell of alot more than browsing with their connection today and they will be doing a hell of alot more with it sooner

Future proofing that is what we need not this nonsense about lowest use case scenario's.

kneemos · 24-05-2019 3:03pm

listermint wrote: »

Ya perhaps on projects like his solar tiles

There is a raft of people who think just because Elon says it then it turns to gold

It's incredible handover of rational thought.

His cars were a big success,although badly managed and going bankrupt.
Something about a space rocket also.

Don't know the guy ,but comes across as insufferable. I'd be far from a fan.
Willing to give a new idea the chance of success at least before writing it off.

listermint · 24-05-2019 3:04pm

kneemos wrote: »

His cars were a big success,although badly managed and going bankrupt.
Something about a space rocket also.

Don't know the guy ,but comes across as insufferable. I'd be far from a fan.
Willing to give a new idea the chance of success at least before writing it off.

Me too. 100%

But when people draw comparison with other superior technology for a certain application..I draw the line.

I've alot of time for Musk. He's energetic

BattleCorp · 24-05-2019 3:06pm

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

It seems less loopy than spending 5k to connect houses up boreens in the middle of nowhere to be fair.

Farmers need Pornhub.

kneemos · 24-05-2019 3:11pm

listermint wrote: »

Me too. 100%

But when people draw comparison with other superior technology for a certain application..I draw the line.

I've alot of time for Musk. He's energetic

Not comparing,but it might be adequate for the most rural areas of the country.

listermint · 24-05-2019 3:13pm

kneemos wrote: »

Not comparing,but it might be adequate for the most rural areas of the country.

We shouldn't be looking for adequate. We should be looking to future proof and protect our IT focused economy once and for all.

Space X, Elon Musk and Rural Broadband

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