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Irish Surname

  • 14-09-2012 6:42pm
    #1
    Danes
    Registered Users Posts: 109 ✭✭


    Could someone please tell me which is the correct Irish version of the surname Joyce (male), Ó Seoigh or Seoige?

    Many thanks.


Comments

  • #2
    iora_rua
    Registered Users Posts: 401 ✭✭iora_rua


    Not an expert on this, but it could be either Seoighe or Seoige. It's Cambro-Norman in origin, so don't think it warrants an O prefix, but doubtless someone else can confirm or otherwise!


  • #3
    An gal gréine
    Registered Users Posts: 941 ✭✭✭An gal gréine


    The book called "An Sloinnteoir Gaeilge agus an t-ainmneoir" says it's Seoigh.
    Older books add Seóigheach as another form.
    However the usual spelling by those bearing the name is Seoige, pronounced "show-ih-gih"


  • #4
    Danes
    Registered Users Posts: 109 ✭✭Danes


    thank you for your replies. I'm married into a family who have used Ó Seoigh for generations but at my sons new school they use Seoige.


  • #5
    iora_rua
    Registered Users Posts: 401 ✭✭iora_rua


    Danes wrote: »
    thank you for your replies. I'm married into a family who have used Ó Seoigh for generations but at my sons new school they use Seoige.

    Just something else I've remembered that might help (or not!). My cousins have always used Seoighe going way back. Also, I can think of two gaelgoirs who have used two different spellings, as an example - Grainne Seoige (Grace Joyce) and the late Mainchin Seoighe (Mannix Joyce).

    I think a lot of it is down to location and how a particular family/branch has pronounced the name through the generations e.g. O Seoigh. I'm sure your son could insist on his own family version, although I still find the O prefix a bit unusual. Maybe we all need to do a bit more research! Apologies for leaving out all the fadas in the above. :)


  • #6
    Danes
    Registered Users Posts: 109 ✭✭Danes


    the school would change it without a problem but he doesn't mind Seoige - he's only five so he was a bit confused as to why they were using a "different" name at school than we do at home. Almost any thing I can find says that Seoige is the correct form but my family are adamant that the Ó prefix IS used for their name :)


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  • #7
    An gal gréine
    Registered Users Posts: 941 ✭✭✭An gal gréine


    The old book I have by Pádraig de Bhulbh is from 1906 and has no "Ó" before any of the Joyces. Since so many Gaelic names were anglicized in the past some families in the last century took to reversing the procedure.


  • #8
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    Danes wrote: »
    ... Almost any thing I can find says that Seoige is the correct form but my family are adamant that the Ó prefix IS used for their name :)
    If that's what they want, that's what they should have. It doesn't matter if others of the same ancestry favour a different form of the name.


  • #9
    Danes
    Registered Users Posts: 109 ✭✭Danes


    where we live, it seems common to fiddle about with surnames, oddly enough the O is usually dropped - O'Neill becomes Nail, O'Shea is simply Shea. Dowling is pronounced Doolin and Keeley is Kayley. Obviously these are the anglicized versions but I suppose it stands to reason that the Irish surnames were fiddled with too. It's also possible that my lot went against the norm just because.......:D


  • #10
    An Sionnach Glic
    Registered Users Posts: 134 ✭✭An Sionnach Glic


    There are variants of spelling of this name in Irish i.e. Seoige, Seoighe or Seoigh, but I've never seen it with an Ó in front of it. The reason for that, as already stated by others above, is that it's not originally a Gaelic-Irish name, but the Gaelicised version that was adopted by those bearing the name as they became hibernicised themselves after the Norman conquest.


  • #11
    somairle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 92 ✭✭somairle


    An Sionnach Glic wrote: »
    There are variants of spelling of this name in Irish i.e. Seoige, Seoighe or Seoigh, but I've never seen it with an Ó in front of it. The reason for that, as already stated by others above, is that it's not originally a Gaelic-Irish name, but the Gaelicised version that was adopted by those bearing the name as they became hibernicised themselves after the Norman conquest.

    I'm changing the subject a little bit here, but with Norman and other non-Gaelic names, what were the original forms? Was Joyce Joyce before it became Seoige or something else? Was there an older form?


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  • #12
    iora_rua
    Registered Users Posts: 401 ✭✭iora_rua


    Possibly something like de Josse(sp?), but it's all a bit lost in the mists of time. How that turned into Seoige, I have no idea!


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