Go-Ahead Dublin City Routes - Updates and Discussion

Stephen15 · 22-06-2019 11:07pm

caviardreams wrote: »

Is there anywhere to see the actual full listing of stops/complete route or a map of the Go Ahead routes? I am looking for the 17 and can only see a list of major/key stops but not the detailed route:
https://www.goaheadireland.ie/services/17?date=2019-06-22&direction=outbound

Thanks!

The old timetable which was very nicely printed had it but that's gone now and replaced by a more generic looking one since it was updated last week. Have to say though neither timetable is the most user friendly especially the fact it's a PDF.

Here we go · 23-06-2019 2:22am

caviardreams wrote: »

Is there anywhere to see the actual full listing of stops/complete route or a map of the Go Ahead routes? I am looking for the 17 and can only see a list of major/key stops but not the detailed route:
https://www.goaheadireland.ie/services/17?date=2019-06-22&direction=outbound

Thanks!

Download the tfi journey planner app type in the route you want DB BE or GAI it will give you a list of stops and in line section a map of the route and each stop

caviardreams · 23-06-2019 5:59pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

The old timetable which was very nicely printed had it but that's gone now and replaced by a more generic looking one since it was updated last week. Have to say though neither timetable is the most user friendly especially the fact it's a PDF.

Thanks - I was sure I had seen a detailed one a few months back when the route first changed - good to know I was not imagining it!

XPS_Zero · 24-06-2019 2:21am

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Publicly funded services should not be involved in political campaigns.

I think pride is counterproductive dated nonsense that promotes stereotypes and does way more damage than good, but it's not a partisan political event or advocating policies, it's a social event that (in theory if not in practice) promotes equality and civil rights, since there isn't a single political party that disagrees with that agenda it's not a political event.

Someone not liking something does not make it political.

I don't like the ''wokewashing'' pandering bs all these brands are doing wrapping themselves in rainbow flags (many of which companies donate, in other jurisdictions, to viciously anti gay politicians and referendum campaigns), but it's not political.

LastStop · 27-06-2019 11:36am

I know GAI have had problems keeping their driving staff but looking at their website I see them constantly advertising for supervisors and controllers, even now they are looking for an Operation Manager.

There are a few staff here from GAI, so can they tell me, do GAI not look to promote drivers to Supervisor roles ? Has the current Operation manager high tailed it or moved elsewhere in the company ? why the high turnover in these positions ?

soundman45 · 27-06-2019 12:02pm

Drivers are generally treated like crap, and not just with regards to pay, you will get one or two on here to defend the company but as you say the fact that they are constantly looking for drivers speaks volumes. Drivers on Bray routes have no option but to use a chipper opposite the dart station for breaks and this is acceptable in the eyes of management. With regards promoting drivers, if they need a supervisor/controller etc next new recruit has a better chance of getting it, the depot supervisors there some have zero experience within the industry and got the job upon starting in GA. They had one good experienced supervisor and surprise surprise he left just like most other experienced drivers have. The only drivers that think its an ok job are usually on their first driving position so have nothing to compare it to. Anyone who has been a driver suddenly realised their last employer was not so bad after all. They even seem to be having trouble recruiting for the BE routes they are getting.

Stephen15 · 27-06-2019 12:32pm

soundman45 wrote: »

Drivers are generally treated like crap, and not just with regards to pay, you will get one or two on here to defend the company but as you say the fact that they are constantly looking for drivers speaks volumes. Drivers on Bray routes have no option but to use a chipper opposite the dart station for breaks and this is acceptable in the eyes of management. With regards promoting drivers, if they need a supervisor/controller etc next new recruit has a better chance of getting it, the depot supervisors there some have zero experience within the industry and got the job upon starting in GA. They had one good experienced supervisor and surprise surprise he left just like most other experienced drivers have. The only drivers that think its an ok job are usually on their first driving position so have nothing to compare it to. Anyone who has been a driver suddenly realised their last employer was not so bad after all. They even seem to be having trouble recruiting for the BE routes they are getting.

Have you worked for them?

Dravokivich · 27-06-2019 12:53pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

Have you worked for them?

My sister's boyfriend does. He's on the way out. Going through a health check with Dublin bus now I believe.

He was planning on building up experience before moving out. But it seems the organisation there is a bit of a shambles. So he wants out sooner.

LastStop wrote: »

I know GAI have had problems keeping their driving staff but looking at their website I see them constantly advertising for supervisors and controllers, even now they are looking for an Operation Manager.

There are a few staff here from GAI, so can they tell me, do GAI not look to promote drivers to Supervisor roles ? Has the current Operation manager high tailed it or moved elsewhere in the company ? why the high turnover in these positions ?

The issue they have with promoting from their driver pool into a supervisor role, is a large amount of them dont have professional experiences as drivers.

Stephen15 · 27-06-2019 1:15pm

I'd say they'll get more drivers looking to join when DB are finished recruiting at the end of the month. When they were first recruiting they didn't seem to have such a problem as DB weren't recruiting at that time. These drivers will likely then look to leave when DB start recruiting.

Dravokivich · 27-06-2019 1:18pm

I'd say that depends on what Dublin coach will do on that airport service they trademarked (or got?) recently.

soundman45 · 27-06-2019 1:22pm

No, I did go for it but declined, some other drivers I knew from previous jobs did work for them and all have since left. General feedback is yes its a shambles, drivers hate working mixed routes, you have no say on which roster you are put on, they string you along if you ask for time off and refuse you at the last minute, drivers are left behind at end of shifts sometimes by fellow drivers that do not wait to bring them back to the depot claiming ( I did not know I had to wait ), the feedback I got was nobody knows what they are at junior management level, just all muddling through it hoping it will somehow work out, of 4 guys I knew working there one left after 3 days, longest lastest 3 months then just rang in and said goodbye im finished.

RuleNumber6 · 27-06-2019 1:41pm

soundman45 wrote: »

No, I did go for it but declined, some other drivers I knew from previous jobs did work for them and all have since left. General feedback is yes its a shambles, drivers hate working mixed routes, you have no say on which roster you are put on, they string you along if you ask for time off and refuse you at the last minute, drivers are left behind at end of shifts sometimes by fellow drivers that do not wait to bring them back to the depot claiming ( I did not know I had to wait ), the feedback I got was nobody knows what they are at junior management level, just all muddling through it hoping it will somehow work out, of 4 guys I knew working there one left after 3 days, longest lastest 3 months then just rang in and said goodbye im finished.

I have several ex colleagues who work there. There are rota's which just do one route and others which are mixed. You are not correct when you say drivers get no choice. There are waiting lists for driver preference to move between rotas which drivers prefer.

soundman45 · 27-06-2019 1:54pm

175 and 17a are single route rota, what other routes are??

Yer Da sells Avon · 27-06-2019 4:19pm

soundman45 wrote: »

The only drivers that think its an ok job are usually on their first driving position so have nothing to compare it to. Anyone who has been a driver suddenly realised their last employer was not so bad after all.

I've worked for them for almost a year now, and while it's my first driving job, I have plenty of other jobs to compare it to. And it's the easiest one I've ever had, tbh. The routes I drive are all very easy, the buses are all new or nearly new, supervisors/controllers leave me alone to get on with the job, the vast majority of passengers are perfectly pleasant, and I've never had any issues with management. And to cap it all off, my weekly pay is going up by €50 from next week, with the introduction of a daily tax-free subsistence allowance.

soundman45 wrote:

General feedback is yes its a shambles, drivers hate working mixed routes, you have no say on which roster you are put on, they string you along if you ask for time off and refuse you at the last minute, drivers are left behind at end of shifts sometimes by fellow drivers that do not wait to bring them back to the depot claiming ( I did not know I had to wait )

Personally, I'd prefer to be on the one route all day, but a lot of drivers actually like the variety of working mixed routes. As for my roster - I asked to be put on it and they put me on it. If I wanted to change to a different one, there are some that I could go straight onto and others which I'd have to go on a waiting list for. I don't know where you heard that drivers have no say, but it's incorrect. I've never had any problem getting time off or swapping shifts with other drivers. The only time I was ever left behind at the end of a shift, all it took was a quick phone call to control and they had a car out to me in 20 minutes. Mildly annoying, but not the end of the world.

soundman45 wrote:

of 4 guys I knew working there one left after 3 days, longest lastest 3 months then just rang in and said goodbye im finished.

Tbh, that says more about your friends than it does about the company.

AlekSmart · 27-06-2019 5:07pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

I'd say they'll get more drivers looking to join when DB are finished recruiting at the end of the month. When they were first recruiting they didn't seem to have such a problem as DB weren't recruiting at that time. These drivers will likely then look to leave when DB start recruiting.

It may be worth noting that Bus Atha Cliath's recruitment campaign is open until

31st August 2019.

https://www.dublinbus.ie/Human-Resources/Professional-Bus-Drivers/

Stephen15 · 27-06-2019 5:12pm

AlekSmart wrote: »

It may be worth noting that Bus Atha Cliath's recruitment campaign is open until

31st August 2019.

https://www.dublinbus.ie/Human-Resources/Professional-Bus-Drivers/

Are they struggling to get drivers or what's the story. The current recruitment campaign was meant to end in January then March then June now August

Yer Da sells Avon · 27-06-2019 5:30pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

Are they struggling to get drivers or what's the story. The current recruitment campaign was meant to end in January then March then June now August

Yup, it's not just Go Ahead who are struggling to find enough drivers. Dublin Bus and Bus Eireann are too. As are lots of smaller private operators.

.G. · 27-06-2019 5:31pm

I love how people come on here and speak with authority on a subject they have zero first hand experience of!

I note the recruitment part of the website no says the drivers wage is "up to €40,000". It used to say €32,000. Has there been a wage increase to stave of the exodus to Dublin Bus?

Stephen15 · 27-06-2019 5:31pm

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

Yup, it's not just Go Ahead who are struggling to find enough drivers. Dublin Bus and Bus Eireann are too. As are lots of smaller private operators.

Thought they had most of GAIs workforce queuing up to join

AlekSmart · 27-06-2019 7:11pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

Are they struggling to get drivers or what's the story. The current recruitment campaign was meant to end in January then March then June now August

There is no "story" as such,no conspiracy,little excitement,just administration...endless admin....;)
Different companies within any given sectors will always have different recruitment & selection policies,and Public Transport is no different.
In addition,larger,long established companies will have continuous wastage via Promotion,Retirement,Resignation,Death in Service scenarios,and this before any expansion is taken into account.
There is nothing unusual or untoward about extending such campaigns,particularly in the current "Full Employment" scenario.

Virtually All Bus & Coach operators are actively seeking Drivers,with much of the industry traditionally being demand responsive and,as a result,focusing on seasonal Tour opportunities,often offering the potential of high "gratuity based" earnings,with the resultant slack-period during winter,when Drivers would return to "other work" and reality.

There is without doubt,a serious shortage of qualified Drivers,both in Truck and Coach & Bus sectors,some of which,can be laid at the high age of entry requirements to accquire a D class licence.
In the 21st Century,21(CPC Holder) & 24,are waaay too old in terms of attracting somebody into making Bus or Coach Driving a full time Career.

Imagining a scenario whereby companies are slugging it out in order to recruit individual staff,may well be the stuff of tabloid intrigue,but the reality is far more mundane and boring.

Theres plenty of stuff available on the wider topic of Commercial and Bus Driver shortages and the really serious issue of the rapidly increasing Age profile in the industry.....

https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2018/06/why-wont-anyone-drive-the-bus/563555/

https://cdn.theatlantic.com/assets/media/img/posts/2018/06/transit_age/afd34af58.png

https://www.thejournal.ie/aircoach-driver-recruitment-2-4172644-Aug2018/

https://www.logisticsmanager.com/uk-driver-shortage-growing-at-50-a-day/

One other Incredibly important element gets a mention here......

https://fleet.ie/truck-driving-in-crisis-due-to-health-problems-and-recruitment-crisis/

Levels of injury and ill-health are incredibly high for the transportation and storage sector (which includes lorry drivers). The latest figures from the HSE record that 52,000 workers suffered from a work related illness and 39,000 had reported a non-fatal injury. The most common form of workplace injury was musculoskeletal accounting for 53 per cent of cases, this was followed by cases of stress, depression and anxiety which are 29 per cent of cases.

New entrants to the sector need to be aware of the full-picture,and employers,regulators and administrative agencies need to get real with elements such as Shift Work,Toilet Facilities and Family Friendly working arrangements...IF the likes of the NTA and the Government Departments involved,do not recognise the issues,then the outlook will continue to look uncertain.

Here we go · 27-06-2019 7:18pm

LastStop wrote: »

I know GAI have had problems keeping their driving staff but looking at their website I see them constantly advertising for supervisors and controllers, even now they are looking for an Operation Manager.

There are a few staff here from GAI, so can they tell me, do GAI not look to promote drivers to Supervisor roles ? Has the current Operation manager high tailed it or moved elsewhere in the company ? why the high turnover in these positions ?

They advertise in house. from what I know some people in ops and supervisors are going to nass depot so there trying to replace them and new positions in nass and as for promoting drivers up because of ack of drivers it's them trying to balance service it's even hardtop just move from one roster to another even if theres space as they don't want one service to suffer touch over another

Yer Da sells Avon · 27-06-2019 7:25pm

.G. wrote: »

I love how people come on here and speak with authority on a subject they have zero first hand experience of!

I note the recruitment part of the website no says the drivers wage is "up to €40,000". It used to say €32,000. Has there been a wage increase to stave of the exodus to Dublin Bus?

There has been no wage increase, but they have introduced a 'subsistence allowance' of €10 per day (which is roughly an extra €2,500 a year, tax-free).

I think the key words there are "up to €40,000". If you do enough overtime, especially on Sundays and public holidays, then you could easily get more than €40k (gross) per year. Otherwise it's closer to €35k.

Here we go · 27-06-2019 7:28pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

Thought they had most of GAIs workforce queuing up to join [/quote
Been told GAI have lost 150 drivers since opening not all have gone to DB or even other bus jobs and IV been told by a DB employee who does the assesments he's had to fail half of the GAI drivers he's had out I assume there still with GAI there's also a good few who pass driving assesment but have failed medical

Here we go · 27-06-2019 7:34pm

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

There has been no wage increase, but they have introduced a 'subsistence allowance' of €10 per day (which is roughly an extra €2,500 a year, tax-free).

I think the key words there are "up to €40,000". If you do enough overtime, especially on Sundays and public holidays, then you could easily get more than €40k (gross) per year. Otherwise it's closer to €35k.

I'd love to know where they got the 40k figure can't figure it out as for the 10 euro a day it comes with conditions people in splits or who have break in depot won't get it

Yer Da sells Avon · 28-06-2019 2:01am

Here we go wrote: »

I'd love to know where they got the 40k figure can't figure it out as for the 10 euro a day it comes with conditions people in splits or who have break in depot won't get it

I heard somewhere that they will be getting it, but it'll just be called something else.

dashcamdanny · 29-06-2019 12:50pm

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

I heard somewhere that they will be getting it, but it'll just be called something else.

So this gets back to what goahead said at the start.

If they cant make it work in 5 years, they are going to pull out.
Giving each drivers (a potential) extra 4k a year, with no extra money coming from farebox or NTA .

I can only assume this is going to come out of the profits which fat cats at the top of the GoAhead originally wanted to cream of the top for themselves.

Yer Da sells Avon · 29-06-2019 3:19pm

dashcamdanny wrote: »

So this gets back to what goahead said at the start.

If they cant make it work in 5 years, they are going to pull out.
Giving each drivers (a potential) extra 4k a year, with no extra money coming from farebox or NTA .

I can only assume this is going to come out of the profits which fat cats at the top of the GoAhead originally wanted to cream of the top for themselves.

For every driver who leaves, it costs a fair bit more than €4k to train a new one. And that's not including the huge cost of the inevitable bumps and scrapes that inexperienced drivers are more likely to have. It's taken them a while to learn that.

They underestimated the enormity of starting up, but when they get their shit together (and they will), I think they're more likely to expand than pull out.

Stephen15 · 29-06-2019 5:10pm

dashcamdanny wrote: »

If they cant make it work in 5 years, they are going to pull out.
Giving each drivers (a potential) extra 4k a year, with no extra money coming from farebox or NTA .

I can only assume this is going to come out of the profits which fat cats at the top of the GoAhead originally wanted to cream of the top for themselves.

I thought the aim of Go-Ahead entering this contract was more so to gain a foothold into the Irish market in order to build up a competitive advantage when it comes to future lucrative contracts here in Ireland rather than make a profit from the start. That would be the advantage of having things tendered out that if it doesn't work out with GAI then another operator can bid for the contract when it expires and hopefully improve the service.

I see the NTA have renewed Transdev's contract to operate the Luas until 2025 believed to be worth somewhere around €200 million. I'm sort of surprised GAI didn't at least try to undercut Transdev's bid whether successful or not.

Yer Da Sells Avon wrote:

They underestimated the enormity of starting up, but when they get their **** together (and they will), I think they're more likely to expand than pull out.

That is true they also underestimated a number of things such as traffic conditions in the GDA as they have implemented some tight schedules on certain routes and the issues with inter working routes and time taken to get to and from Ballymount from their various different termini.

These issues are already being somewhat sorted out now that they are stabling buses for some of the Northside routes in the airport and the implementation of revised timetables.

CramCycle · 29-06-2019 5:22pm

I'd agree, in fact the perceived set back that alot of other routes would not go out to tender for a few years, may actually be a blessing and help them get everything in order as well as finding a more balanced pay structure and people with experience.

Listening to the comments on twitter bar the few people from Bray who seem to forget the errors and issues that were there before GAI, engagement seems to be positive with regards driver behaviour, seems they are putting a heavier weight on being seen not to do anything dangerous or stupid rather than timetable keeping which is a welcome departure from the muppetry you get from certain garages in DB.

tabbey · 29-06-2019 5:50pm

CramCycle wrote: »

engagement seems to be positive with regards driver behaviour, seems they are putting a heavier weight on being seen not to do anything dangerous or stupid rather than timetable keeping which is a welcome departure from the muppetry you get from certain garages in DB.

My sentiments entirely.

During the week I was on a couple of Bray local GAI routes, followed by a spin on the 155.
The GAI drivers were slow and careful, and even stopped when someone accidentally pressed the stop button.
In contrast the DB driver (who was far from the worst) failed to stop at three stops where prospective passengers put out their hands. He also went through red lights where he had plenty of time to stop.

Go-Ahead Dublin City Routes - Updates and Discussion

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