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Are Sinn Féin anti-Catholic?

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12467…11

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    #92
    John Hutton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭John Hutton


    breezy1985 wrote: »
    I always tell.my friends if you believe in god but don't believe in everything the pope says then you should find another religion because papal infallibility is just that and you cannot disagree.
    But no way the average Irish person would switch to a different Christianity because it's actually all about tradition and natiolism and not god at all with the Irish faith
    You are wrong in your belief of what papal infallibility is. It does not apply to every Pontifical utterence


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    #93
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Bowie wrote: »
    Can you show your work?
    You seem to be of the idea that helping one takes away from another. Equality doesnt work like that but to quote, "When You’re Accustomed To Privilege, Equality Feels Like Oppression".

    What on earth are you talking about?

    When did Irish people - the Irish state ever oppress Muslims?


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    #94
    BloodBath
    Registered Users Posts: 10,299 ✭✭✭✭BloodBath


    John Hutton wrote: »
    I think this line of thinking and argument is very regrettable because it involves generating a boogeyman.

    The majority of people in Ireland were catholic and respected the opinion of the catholic church, which is why it carried so much weight. The Catholic church built up this respect over centuries through its work, particularly during the course of the oppression of Ireland and its (catholic) inhabitants, especially during the penal days.

    On moral issues, that majority agreed with the church and looked to it for moral guidance, which it gave. The catholic church did not impose itself on society (like the Protestant established church did) but rather it was elevated to its position of moral authority and power by the people themselves DESPITE the brutal efforts of the authorities over the course of centuries.

    None of the above makes any judgement on whether this was good or bad.

    Marx famously wrote (only to be misquoted and misunderstood ever since) that religion is the opium of the masses, i.e. of the people, not forced upon the people.

    So to pin everything that happened on some "evil" church that swooped in and took power against the wishes of the people is a gross misrepresentation of history which abdicates everyone else of any responsibility for what happened - the state and indeed the general public. If we do this we learn nothing about ourselves or how to do things better in the future - we just blame a succession of boogeymen and move on the same as ever. Which is sad.

    A load of hogwash. RCC supporters and history revisionists make me sick. The RCC for centuries were plain evil everywhere they operated. They controlled through fear, oppression and genocide. Total fascists and I don't use that word lightly like some people these days.

    Slavers, child traffickers, rapists and genocidal maniacs. The good ole RCC.


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    #95
    bobbysands81
    Registered Users Posts: 7,198 ✭✭✭bobbysands81


    Chalk McHugh wrote: »
    Maybe mcguiness felt the need to pray and confess to all his plotting and bombing of innocent people. Hardly carrying out God's message and the teachings of the Bible now in fairness. The complete opposite.

    Thankfully we had brave men like Martin who weren’t afraid to fight back.

    Why are we so quick to slate the violence of one side yet let the instigators off the hook?


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    #96
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    What on earth are you talking about?

    When did Irish people - the Irish state ever oppress Muslims?

    That's your take away?
    You've still not show what privilege Muslins enjoy that aren't afforded to Catholics?

    When you are use to being the big kid in the play ground and you're told to share it can be tough


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    #97
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    John Hutton wrote: »
    "It wasn't news' to those who asked the church to do what they should be doing (social welfare, schools etc.). When does being aware of something and allowing it to continue become "covering it up"?

    It likely wasn't no. That doesn't give the church a pass. I'd suggest the church didnt need be asked.

    When you become aware of it and say nothing or assist in keeping it quiet or turning a blind eye.

    As I say it would be still going on today if people outside the church hadn't called it out, so yes it's a lot to do with 'the church despite it's best efforts, being called to account.
    The state should cut all ties completely. Leave religion to individuals to decide if they want anything to do with it.


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    #98
    John Hutton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭John Hutton


    Bowie wrote: »
    It likely wasn't no. That doesn't give the church a pass. I'd suggest the church didnt need be asked.

    When you become aware of it and say nothing or assist in keeping it quiet or turning a blind eye.

    As I say it would be still going on today if people outside the church hadn't called it out, so yes it's a lot to do with 'the big bad church'.
    By no means am I saying it gives the church a pass, I'm saying that by only blaming the church you are giving everyone else a pass, and inviting bad things to happen again.



    What I think happened is that excessive, unaccountable power led to abuse. I don't think this is a uniquely catholic phenomenon. You see similar abuse in other organizations or people who are similarly powerful and unaccountable.


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    #99
    John Hutton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭John Hutton


    BloodBath wrote: »
    A load of hogwash. RCC supporters and history revisionists make me sick. The RCC for centuries were plain evil everywhere they operated. They controlled through fear, oppression and genocide. Total fascists and I don't use that word lightly like some people these days.

    Slavers, child traffickers, rapists and genocidal maniacs. The good ole RCC.
    Why bother posting something like this? Do you normally just blurt out provocative statements like that in conversations rather than try to engage in what could be an interesting discussion?


    If what I have said is hogwash, it should be easy for you to rebut it, please go ahead.


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    #100
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    John Hutton wrote: »
    By no means am I saying it gives the church a pass, I'm saying that by only blaming the church you are giving everyone else a pass, and inviting bad things to happen again.



    What I think happened is that excessive, unaccountable power led to abuse. I don't think this is a uniquely catholic phenomenon. You see similar abuse in other organizations or people who are similarly powerful and unaccountable.

    I've said a few times now it wasnt the church alone.

    Not uniquely catholic but in Ireland yes.
    Again the church would still be covering up today if not called out. Society and brave individuals drag us towards progress not the church or the state. These people generally don't want change.
    We don't need more politicians taking a knee for them.


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    #101
    John Hutton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭John Hutton


    Bowie wrote: »
    I've said a few times now it wasnt the church alone.

    Not uniquely catholic but in Ireland yes.
    Again the church would still be covering up today if not called out. Society and brave individuals drag us towards progress not the church or the state. These people generally don't want change.
    We don't need more politicians taking a knee for them.
    That's interesting, can you elaborate more on what you mean by "society and brave individuals"?


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    #102
    John Hutton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭John Hutton


    Bowie wrote: »
    I've said a few times now it wasnt the church alone.

    Not uniquely catholic but in Ireland yes.
    Again the church would still be covering up today if not called out. Society and brave individuals drag us towards progress not the church or the state. These people generally don't want change.
    We don't need more politicians taking a knee for them.
    Sorry, meant to have this in my other post too, but do you think that the church would also be perpetrating abuse, or just covering it up? (I say "just", but I don't mean to imply that that's not terrible and/or just as bad).


    The point I'm driving at is that, for many, it seems they view Catholicism as automatically begetting child sex abuse. Which is of course, not true and as bigoted and sectarian a position as you can get.


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    #103
    rockatansky
    Registered Users Posts: 1,336 ✭✭✭rockatansky


    JayZeus wrote: »

    Sf will be whatever the ‘most vunderable’ in society want them to be. Its about picking up the low hanging vegetable votes.

    Fixed your post.

    Boards once again showing how much it has fallen by allowing a post like this to go without action.


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    #104
    BloodBath
    Registered Users Posts: 10,299 ✭✭✭✭BloodBath


    John Hutton wrote: »
    Why bother posting something like this? Do you normally just blurt out provocative statements like that in conversations rather than try to engage in what could be an interesting discussion?


    If what I have said is hogwash, it should be easy for you to rebut it, please go ahead.

    It's ok for you to make statements without backup but I have to waste my time breaking down your obvious BS bit by bit? No thanks.

    How about you refute what I said?

    If you find factual statements provocative I suggest you study the history of the RCC. It ain't just reserved to distant history either.


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    #105
    John Hutton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭John Hutton


    BloodBath wrote: »
    It's ok for you to make statements without backup but I have to waste my time breaking down your obvious BS bit by bit? No thanks.

    How about you refute what I said?

    If you find factual statements provocative I suggest you study the history of the RCC. It ain't just reserved to distant history either.
    ?


    I'm not asking you to give backup, citations or the like, I'm asking you to actually engage in a discussion.


    What aspects of my post do you disagree with?


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    #106
    RandomViewer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    Bowie wrote: »
    I've said a few times now it wasnt the church alone.

    Not uniquely catholic but in Ireland yes.
    Again the church would still be covering up today if not called out. Society and brave individuals drag us towards progress not the church or the state. These people generally don't want change.
    We don't need more politicians taking a knee for them.

    Church abuse wasn't confined to Catholicism, Kincora was protestant and there was that care home in Dublin that the redress board refused to cover.


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    #107
    RandomViewer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    Sorry B, blind eye is turned to exploitation of workers in Muslim owned businesses, dont know whether its the fear of being accused of Islamaphobia or just the bother of getting a translator


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    #108
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    The left equate Islam- Muslims with race

    Therefore won't criticise


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    #109
    Snow Garden
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Snow Garden


    I am anti all organised religions. Controlling people using the supernatural is wrong.


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    #110
    Snow Garden
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Snow Garden


    John Hutton wrote: »
    By no means am I saying it gives the church a pass, I'm saying that by only blaming the church you are giving everyone else a pass, and inviting bad things to happen again.

    What I think happened is that excessive, unaccountable power led to abuse. I don't think this is a uniquely catholic phenomenon. You see similar abuse in other organizations or people who are similarly powerful and unaccountable.

    Other organisations aren't allowed to cover it up like the Roman church. They still refuse to share their records and details of internal investigations. The children abused by Smyth were forced to sign oaths of silence when they reported the abuse. The people taken from their mothers and offered up for commercial adoption spend decades begging the religious organisations for their records so they can find their relations.

    Shure lets put it all down to a few bad apples....


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    #111
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 24,358 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    John Hutton wrote: »
    You are wrong in your belief of what papal infallibility is. It does not apply to every Pontifical utterence

    If he is infallible then he is never wrong.
    I have many friends who are ok with homosexuality, condoms and sex before marriage but are apparently catholics which is a load of bull as far as I am concerned. They should find a religion that suits their beliefs or give it all up


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    #112
    sabat
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,896 ✭✭✭sabat


    Snow Garden wrote: »
    Other organisations aren't allowed to cover it up like the Roman church.

    The head of the Anglican Church is currently sheltering and protecting from the authorities an internationally wanted pederast and participant in sex trafficking.


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    #113
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 24,358 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    For everyone on here crying about the poor auld downtrodden RC church and why we are picking on them and not other religions or society please read the thread title. I'm sure there are many other threads on here complaining about Muslim or Anglican problems but this is about Catholicism and criticism of the RCs does not exonerate or excuse any other group but we are not obligated to list every group we do not like when we call out 1

    And as for the woke people giving Muslims a pass everyone arguing against the church on here has said there are problems other places too so stop trying to deflect blame.

    They bullied tortured and raped in Ireland and backed Fascists in Spain Germany and Italy and I agree that it happened in other walks of life too but the crimes or sins of any other group does not make the above crimes of the papal state any less true


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    #114
    RandomViewer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    sabat wrote: »
    The head of the Anglican Church is currently sheltering and protecting from the authorities an internationally wanted pederast and participant in sex trafficking.

    Andy will never stand trial,


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    #115
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    John Hutton wrote: »
    That's interesting, can you elaborate more on what you mean by "society and brave individuals"?

    Abuse victims, women who had children taken, people who spoke out. More broadly ordinary members of the public who felt women should have a choice over their own bodies, equality for gay people down to those willing to fight for the right to buy a condom.


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    #116
    Snake Plisken
    Registered Users Posts: 12,431 ✭✭✭✭Snake Plisken


    Yes the Shinners are anti-catholic as that idiot Fintan Warfield disrespecting Catholics with the Pope t-shirt, love to see him do that with the prophet on it, I doubt Mary Lou would be backing him if he did that! So yes they are in the South.


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    #117
    RandomViewer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    Snake Plisken wrote: »
    Yes the Shinners are anti-catholic as that idiot Fintan Warfield disrespecting Catholics with the Pope t-shirt, love to see him do that with the prophet on it, I doubt Mary Lou would be backing him if he did that! So yes they are in the South.

    Think SF has to ditch Warfield, Wolfe Tones legacy or not


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    #118
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    RandomViewer wrote: »
    Think SF has to ditch Warfield, Wolfe Tones legacy or not

    The Wolfe Tones made a great living off of 'ooh ah up the 'RA'. No time for them.


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    #119
    keano_afc
    Registered Users Posts: 8,711 ✭✭✭keano_afc


    Imagine being so oppressed that a journalist will write a column for you in a national newspaper when some idiots get abusive online.

    Warfield is a bit of a clown, a woke virtue signalling muppet who gets to hide behind his sexuality when someone calls him out. I wonder would Ellen Coyne and others be rushing to Mattie McGrath or Ronan Mullen's defence if they had shared an image of a calendar full of half naked women in their office in government buildings? Highly doubt it.

    Coyne is utterly toxic. She had no issue sharing old images from a pro-life advocates twitter account during the referendum campaign just to encourage a pile on. She's a hypocrite.


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    #120
    LuasSimon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,208 ✭✭✭LuasSimon


    If these new Sinn Fein crowd want to ban Catholics or if they want to make fun of people that say a few prayers they will lose a lot of support . There are thousands of members of Sinn Fein who attend church regularly similar to most parties in the south , in the north the numbers are higher . Warfield and these New Sinn Feiners in Dublin might hate Catholics but that will backfire in Northern Ireland and in many parts of rural ireland . Many of the hunger strikers were strong Catholics indeed Ray McCreesh the third man to die on hunger strike had a brother a priest who helped greatly in that terrible time as indeed did cardinal I Fiach from Crossmaglen . Many priests helped prisoners and family’s of people killed by loyalist gangs and the British army .


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    #121
    John Hutton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭John Hutton


    breezy1985 wrote: »
    If he is infallible then he is never wrong.
    I have many friends who are ok with homosexuality, condoms and sex before marriage but are apparently catholics which is a load of bull as far as I am concerned. They should find a religion that suits their beliefs or give it all up
    Papal infallibility has been invoked only a handful of times.




    Popes get stuff wrong all the time.





    That's an odd perspective, the church doesn't say that only those without sin can be members, quite the opposite in fact. Why do you say that only those "free of sin" in the Church's eyes should be members when the church itself says the opposite?


    Do you apply the same rigor to your own life, that you only partake in something if you are in 100% personal agreement and conformity? Do you vote for example?


    Personally I don't agree with everything anyone or anything I am involved with says or stands for - I have the humility to acknowledge though that that doesn't mean I am right on these issues either!


This discussion has been closed.
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