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Are Sinn Féin anti-Catholic?

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Comments

  • Options
    #242
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,660 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    Bowie wrote: »
    I can't find a one. Are you thinking of the beating SF gave FG in the election?

    someone said it once or it was in the Indo. thats substitutes for reality in Truthvader's world


  • Options
    #243
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    maccored wrote: »
    someone said it once or it was in the Indo. thats substitutes for reality in Truthvader's world

    Upset the Charlie Tan-again commemoration got cancelled.


  • Options
    #244
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 33,867 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    BloodBath wrote: »
    A load of hogwash. RCC supporters and history revisionists make me sick. The RCC for centuries were plain evil everywhere they operated. They controlled through fear, oppression and genocide. Total fascists and I don't use that word lightly like some people these days.

    Slavers, child traffickers, rapists and genocidal maniacs. The good ole RCC.

    Exactly this.

    In post-Famine Ireland they took advantage of a downtrodden, broken nation to seize ever more power, influence and wealth for themselves. What was it our poor island really needed in the second half of the 19th century - that's right, a massive cathedral building programme :rolleyes:

    They even built the biggest seminary in the world and got the Brits to pay for most of it.

    The British allowed the RCC to seize control of civil society here in the hopes it would 'pacify' the Irish. The RCC in turn supported British rule here right up until it became obvious they were going to lose, then they switched sides and pretended they were nationalists or even republicans all along.

    So in 1922 we got an impoverished state, shorn of most of its industry, ravaged by civil war, paying debts to Britain, where the lion's share of the civil society organisations which existed were controlled by the RCC (and almost all of what was left was CoI.) What were the chances of that state establishing proper, fit for purpose, secular, health, welfare and education systems?

    As late as the 1950s the RCC opposed a rudimentary healthcare system for pregnant women and babies, because they would not have absolute control of it. McQuaid and co put their foot down and our elected government had no choice but to fall in line with their diktats. How many suffered and died as a direct result?

    Divorce, contraception, "dirty books", abortion - RCC control over our laws was everywhere. And as late as the 1980s good luck finding a party, or more than a handful of independent politicians, who were prepared to stand up to them.

    When the choice in the 1950s for the Irish people was between de Valera and Costello - what sort of a choice was that? Tweedledum and Tweedledee.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_A_Costello
    Costello took the opportunity to reconfirm his beliefs in Catholicism on 12 April 1951, in his speech on Dr. Browne's resignation:
    I have no hesitation in saying that we, as a Government, representing a people, the overwhelming majority of whom are of the one faith, who have a special position in the Constitution, when we are given advice or warnings by the authoritative people in the Catholic Church, on matters strictly confined to faith and morals, so long as I am here—and I am sure I speak for my colleagues—will give to their directions, given within that scope—and I have no doubt that they do not desire in the slightest to go one fraction of an inch outside the sphere of faith and morals—our complete obedience and allegiance." ... "I am an Irishman second, I am a Catholic first, and I accept without qualification in all respects the teaching of the hierarchy and the church to which I belong.

    We did not choose to give the RCC the power to control our laws, almost every aspect of our lives, vastly enrich themselves and rape our kids wholesale. They seized this power. They got away with it. They're still getting away with it. And while their power might (appear to) be gone, they're still vastly wealthy. National Maternity Hospital saga ain't over yet... and don't forget the 90% of our primary schools, which we pay for, but they control.

    Life ain't always empty.



  • Options
    #245
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 33,867 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    sabat wrote: »
    The head of the Anglican Church is currently sheltering and protecting from the authorities an internationally wanted pederast and participant in sex trafficking.

    Fantastic example of whataboutery right there.

    So if "the protestants are up to no good as usual" how does that have any influence whatsoever on how we should interpret the actions of the catholic church?



    ...it doesn't.


    LuasSimon wrote: »
    There are thousands of members of Sinn Fein who attend church regularly similar to most parties in the south , in the north the numbers are higher .

    Hey, look, what people get up to behind closed doors is their own business.
    Warfield and these New Sinn Feiners in Dublin might hate Catholics

    Hating the RCC is not the same thing as hating catholics
    And questioning or even ridiculing the RCC is not the same as hating it.

    I detest SF, but you're talking horse puckey.
    Many of the hunger strikers were strong Catholics

    Maybe if they'd have been bettter catholics they'd have listened to the pope when he urged them to turn away from violence?


    keano_afc wrote: »
    I wonder would Ellen Coyne and others be rushing to Mattie McGrath or Ronan Mullen's defence if they had shared an image of a calendar full of half naked women in their office in government buildings? Highly doubt it.

    Yeah like that's going to happen!
    Coyne is utterly toxic. She had no issue sharing old images from a pro-life advocates twitter account during the referendum campaign just to encourage a pile on. She's a hypocrite.

    You mean the images of a guy at a neo-nazi rally? Those images?

    Life ain't always empty.



  • Options
    #246
    Bonniedog
    Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    maccored wrote: »

    Social-ism ... isnt hard to figure out what it means.


    :rolleyes:

    It obviously is for you!

    Like most shinners you haven't a notion what socialism is.

    Here's a clue:

    Its not about arguing for lower corporation taxes or implementing Tory economic policy in the part of Ireland the shinners help to run for the Sahibs :)


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  • Options
    #247
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    maccored wrote: »
    not communism. SF grew in a society were people were being treated like ****, and as a party they developed to help people in whatever way they could in their limited ability.

    They've grown a lot since and im sure in another 20 years they'll have dumped any level of socialism they have, but the 'socialism SF are espousing' is giving a **** about people and realising people are more important than solely supporting big business and ignoring people - like FF/FG choose to do.

    Social-ism ... isnt hard to figure out what it means.

    If we don’t support “big business” then where will we get the money to help people? No really, I’m interested in your theory.
    Can you give me examples too of how the current administration are “ignoring people”? In what way?


  • Options
    #248
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,798 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    LuasSimon wrote: »
    If these new Sinn Fein crowd want to ban Catholics or if they want to make fun of people that say a few prayers they will lose a lot of support . There are thousands of members of Sinn Fein who attend church regularly similar to most parties in the south , in the north the numbers are higher . Warfield and these New Sinn Feiners in Dublin might hate Catholics but that will backfire in Northern Ireland and in many parts of rural ireland . Many of the hunger strikers were strong Catholics indeed Ray McCreesh the third man to die on hunger strike had a brother a priest who helped greatly in that terrible time as indeed did cardinal I Fiach from Crossmaglen . Many priests helped prisoners and family’s of people killed by loyalist gangs and the British army .

    Noone in SF suggesting banning catholicism

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Options
    #249
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Let remind us all of the “great” SF who “as a party they developed to help people in whatever way they could in their limited ability”

    Children raped for years by a parent and while they had full knowledge never stepped in to protect the child. Then when the child grew into a women and decided she wanted people to know what happened

    How did SF protect this vulnerable woman? They tried to get a legal gagging order on her. Then hit her abuser to protect him from going to court

    That’s the SF decent people know.....


  • Options
    #250
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,660 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    Bonniedog wrote: »
    :rolleyes:

    It obviously is for you!

    Like most shinners you haven't a notion what socialism is.

    Here's a clue:

    Its not about arguing for lower corporation taxes or implementing Tory economic policy in the part of Ireland the shinners help to run for the Sahibs :)

    socialism is one word covering a multitude of levels. pretending it means one thing is a bit silly


  • Options
    #251
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,660 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    splinter65 wrote: »
    If we don’t support “big business” then where will we get the money to help people? No really, I’m interested in your theory.
    Can you give me examples too of how the current administration are “ignoring people”? In what way?

    who says not to support big business? Its prioritising which is more important is the issue - people or commerce


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  • Options
    #252
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,660 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Let remind us all of the “great” SF who “as a party they developed to help people in whatever way they could in their limited ability”

    Children raped for years by a parent and while they had full knowledge never stepped in to protect the child. Then when the child grew into a women and decided she wanted people to know what happened

    How did SF protect this vulnerable woman? They tried to get a legal gagging order on her. Then hit her abuser to protect him from going to court

    That’s the SF decent people know.....

    yeah, still waiting for you to explain where SF have been kneecapping and killing people. instead what do we get? the usual ....


  • Options
    #253
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 24,349 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    Exactly this.

    In post-Famine Ireland they took advantage of a downtrodden, broken nation to seize ever more power, influence and wealth for themselves. What was it our poor island really needed in the second half of the 19th century - that's right, a massive cathedral building programme :rolleyes:

    They even built the biggest seminary in the world and got the Brits to pay for most of it.

    The British allowed the RCC to seize control of civil society here in the hopes it would 'pacify' the Irish. The RCC in turn supported British rule here right up until it became obvious they were going to lose, then they switched sides and pretended they were nationalists or even republicans all along.

    So in 1922 we got an impoverished state, shorn of most of its industry, ravaged by civil war, paying debts to Britain, where the lion's share of the civil society organisations which existed were controlled by the RCC (and almost all of what was left was CoI.) What were the chances of that state establishing proper, fit for purpose, secular, health, welfare and education systems?

    As late as the 1950s the RCC opposed a rudimentary healthcare system for pregnant women and babies, because they would not have absolute control of it. McQuaid and co put their foot down and our elected government had no choice but to fall in line with their diktats. How many suffered and died as a direct result?

    Divorce, contraception, "dirty books", abortion - RCC control over our laws was everywhere. And as late as the 1980s good luck finding a party, or more than a handful of independent politicians, who were prepared to stand up to them.

    When the choice in the 1950s for the Irish people was between de Valera and Costello - what sort of a choice was that? Tweedledum and Tweedledee.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_A_Costello



    We did not choose to give the RCC the power to control our laws, almost every aspect of our lives, vastly enrich themselves and rape our kids wholesale. They seized this power. They got away with it. They're still getting away with it. And while their power might (appear to) be gone, they're still vastly wealthy. National Maternity Hospital saga ain't over yet... and don't forget the 90% of our primary schools, which we pay for, but they control.

    Best post on here so far.
    And as you said in another post "what people get up to behind closed doors is their own business" well the RCs seem obsessed with what or who we all do in the privacy of our own homes


  • Options
    #254
    Truthvader
    Registered Users Posts: 1,826 ✭✭✭Truthvader


    maccored wrote: »
    sf do punishment beatings now? SF, the political party. do punishment beatings. WTF are you on (about)?

    Don't believe there is any difference between Sinn Fein and the IRA. One and the same. I am supported in the by the Garda Commissioner as per the link below. No doubt I will get the usual anti Guard rant from the Finn Fein mob on here.

    Who to believe the leader of a force protecting the public from criminals who occasionally lose their lives in the service of others or the online representatives of an organisation steeped in crime of the most bestial kind including the murder of Guards? Mmmmmm....

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/what-evidence-is-there-that-the-ira-still-controls-sinn-f%C3%A9in-1.4182679


  • Options
    #255
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    maccored wrote: »
    yeah, still waiting for you to explain where SF have been kneecapping and killing people. instead what do we get? the usual ....

    So you think we should just casually call child abuse “the usual”.


  • Options
    #256
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    maccored wrote: »
    who says not to support big business? Its prioritising which is more important is the issue - people or commerce

    Well if we have no money then we can’t support people. By support you mean provide people with the financial means to keep body and soul together when they can’t do it for themselves.
    In this country we have a very generous support mechanism for people. It’s been particularly generous during the pandemic.
    So I’m confused as to how you think that big business is being supported at the expense of supporting people. You’re not being very clear. Can you give me an example?


  • Options
    #257
    John Hutton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭John Hutton


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    Exactly this.

    In post-Famine Ireland they took advantage of a downtrodden, broken nation to seize ever more power, influence and wealth for themselves. What was it our poor island really needed in the second half of the 19th century - that's right, a massive cathedral building programme :rolleyes:

    They even built the biggest seminary in the world and got the Brits to pay for most of it.

    The British allowed the RCC to seize control of civil society here in the hopes it would 'pacify' the Irish. The RCC in turn supported British rule here right up until it became obvious they were going to lose, then they switched sides and pretended they were nationalists or even republicans all along.

    So in 1922 we got an impoverished state, shorn of most of its industry, ravaged by civil war, paying debts to Britain, where the lion's share of the civil society organisations which existed were controlled by the RCC (and almost all of what was left was CoI.) What were the chances of that state establishing proper, fit for purpose, secular, health, welfare and education systems?

    As late as the 1950s the RCC opposed a rudimentary healthcare system for pregnant women and babies, because they would not have absolute control of it. McQuaid and co put their foot down and our elected government had no choice but to fall in line with their diktats. How many suffered and died as a direct result?

    Divorce, contraception, "dirty books", abortion - RCC control over our laws was everywhere. And as late as the 1980s good luck finding a party, or more than a handful of independent politicians, who were prepared to stand up to them.

    When the choice in the 1950s for the Irish people was between de Valera and Costello - what sort of a choice was that? Tweedledum and Tweedledee.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_A_Costello



    We did not choose to give the RCC the power to control our laws, almost every aspect of our lives, vastly enrich themselves and rape our kids wholesale. They seized this power. They got away with it. They're still getting away with it. And while their power might (appear to) be gone, they're still vastly wealthy. National Maternity Hospital saga ain't over yet... and don't forget the 90% of our primary schools, which we pay for, but they control.

    I suggest reading this book: https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/how-religion-shaped-ireland-s-cultural-heritage-1.3735924


  • Options
    #258
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,660 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    So you think we should just casually call child abuse “the usual”.

    as casually as such things seems to be trudged out by some anytime SF is mentioned, yet claims of murder are casually ignored when asked to back it up.

    More whataboutery here btw. I asked for truthvader to tell me when SF murdered people and he/she waffles on about something else. now you are getting offended and trying to make something out of what wasnt said.


  • Options
    #259
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,660 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    splinter65 wrote: »
    Well if we have no money then we can’t support people. By support you mean provide people with the financial means to keep body and soul together when they can’t do it for themselves.
    In this country we have a very generous support mechanism for people. It’s been particularly generous during the pandemic.
    So I’m confused as to how you think that big business is being supported at the expense of supporting people. You’re not being very clear. Can you give me an example?

    yeah yeah. to be frank - no. I think if you open your eyes and look around you'll find enough.


  • Options
    #260
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    maccored wrote: »
    yeah yeah. to be frank - no. I think if you open your eyes and look around you'll find enough.

    So you can’t give me any examples of how and when and where big business has been prioritised by this government at the expense of people. You can’t think of any? That’s because it just doesn’t happen.
    It’s just more rubbish sound bites and propaganda spouted by SF that gullible vulnerable people swallow without having the capacity to question what they’re being fed.
    SF were particularly successful with this line of fraud in the build up to the last GE to the extent where almost a 1/4 of the people who voted voted for them.
    Fortunately almost 1/2 of the rest of the voters didn’t vote for them and the candidates they DID vote for thankfully refused to form a government with a MMT party that actually has an armed wing.
    I shudder to think how the corona crisis would have been handled if SF had actually had to deal with a crisis situation.


  • Options
    #261
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,660 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    splinter65 wrote: »
    So you can’t give me any examples of how and when and where big business has been prioritised by this government at the expense of people. You can’t think of any? That’s because it just doesn’t happen.
    It’s just more rubbish sound bites and propaganda spouted by SF that gullible vulnerable people swallow without having the capacity to question what they’re being fed.
    SF were particularly successful with this line of fraud in the build up to the last GE to the extent where almost a 1/4 of the people who voted voted for them.
    Fortunately almost 1/2 of the rest of the voters didn’t vote for them and the candidates they DID vote for thankfully refused to form a government with a MMT party that actually has an armed wing.
    I shudder to think how the corona crisis would have been handled if SF had actually had to deal with a crisis situation.

    i cant be arsed. thats the honest truth. if you are asking me to show you were the irish government has put corporate business before people then you are either blind or havent bothered looking.

    For example - why do some large corporations get away with low tax whereas small businesses dont? Then plenty of examples - Im just not going to spoonfeed you


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    #262
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 33,867 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Truthvader wrote: »
    I am supported in the by the Garda Commissioner as per the link below. No doubt I will get the usual anti Guard rant from the Finn Fein mob on here.

    Ah, no, it's not like SF would ever be anti-Garda, even if the commissioner is an ex-RUC nordie prod! That appointment really p*ssed in SF's cornflakes :pac:
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/what-evidence-is-there-that-the-ira-still-controls-sinn-f%C3%A9in-1.4182679

    Remember last year when Mary Lou said that a border poll wasn't appropriate at this time? Then after the lads from the Falls "had a word" she was out the next day saying there should be an immediate border poll?


    splinter65 wrote: »
    Fortunately almost 1/2 of the rest of the voters didn’t vote for them

    Almost right - over half voted for the three coalition parties, and many more voted for the smaller non-SF parties and independents.

    SF got a result which didn't even make them the biggest party, and they think they have a divine right to be in government! They need to make themselves fit for government and from where I'm standing, that's going to take at least another generation to flush out the rah-rah set and perhaps develop some sane economic policies.


    maccored wrote: »
    yeah yeah. to be frank - no. I think if you open your eyes and look around you'll find enough.

    How many times over has SF's manifesto spent that imaginary Apple money by now?

    Life ain't always empty.



  • Options
    #263
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 33,867 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    John Hutton wrote: »
    I suggest reading this book: https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/how-religion-shaped-ireland-s-cultural-heritage-1.3735924

    I read that book review at the time.
    What points made within the book did you find particularly pertinent?

    Author of the review is naive in the extreme if he thinks that we have separation of church and state because of repeal of the 8th. No sign of it happening in health, never mind in our education system which the RCC has in is death grip.

    Life ain't always empty.



  • Options
    #264
    Bonniedog
    Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    maccored wrote: »
    socialism is one word covering a multitude of levels. pretending it means one thing is a bit silly

    It does actually fundamentally mean one thing - state or other form of collective ownership.

    Nothing to with gender, gay marriage, hating religion, climate change and so on.

    It's about ownership of the means of production.

    SF are not socialists.


  • Options
    #265
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,660 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    Bonniedog wrote: »
    It does actually fundamentally mean one thing - state or other form of collective ownership.

    Nothing to with gender, gay marriage, hating religion, climate change and so on.

    It's about ownership of the means of production.

    SF are not socialists.

    Socialism is a political, social, and economic philosophy encompassing a range of economic and social systems

    I got that from wikipedia. Apparently its the bible - well truthvader quotes it a lot.

    Heres another wiki quote:

    "There are many varieties of socialism and no single definition encapsulates all of them"

    Agreed state ownership is common, but not essential. Then again, are you telling me SF are fans of excessive privatisation? Do you slag off the SDs for using the word 'social'? How about labour? Or do you just prefer to restrict your definition to SF?


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    #266
    Bonniedog
    Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    Socialism is not socialism unless there is state/collective ownership.

    As for privatisation, well SF did some of that last time they were in coalition with DUP. And called for lowering of corporation tax.

    They are not even left unless you think Hilary Clinton or Macron or Trudeau is left. Post nationalist liberals be fair description.

    Same applies to SDs and Labour.


  • Options
    #267
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,660 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    Bonniedog wrote: »
    Socialism is not socialism unless there is state/collective ownership.

    As for privatisation, well SF did some of that last time they were in coalition with DUP. And called for lowering of corporation tax.

    They are not even left unless you think Hilary Clinton or Macron or Trudeau is left. Post nationalist liberals be fair description.

    Same applies to SDs and Labour.

    as i say - when have SF been calling for privatisation? @last time with the DUP'? And not demanding an increase in the corporation tax doesnt mean privatisation.


  • Options
    #268
    John Hutton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭John Hutton


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    I read that book review at the time.
    What points made within the book did you find particularly pertinent?

    Author of the review is naive in the extreme if he thinks that we have separation of church and state because of repeal of the 8th. No sign of it happening in health, never mind in our education system which the RCC has in is death grip.
    I wasn't referring really to the review of the book, rather the book itself (review was first thing I could find)

    The book gives a long account of Christianity in Ireland, the explanation and account of how and why the Catholic church became so popular (when in decline in other countries) is very interesting and I think reading it would add to your understanding of this area.


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    #269
    Bonniedog
    Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    maccored wrote: »
    as i say - when have SF been calling for privatisation? @last time with the DUP'? And not demanding an increase in the corporation tax doesnt mean privatisation.

    What sort of a socialist/left party proposes to lower corporation tax :)

    Leading shinners also own businesses including a certain Belfast hotel and security firms in which there is no trade union representation.


  • Options
    #270
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    maccored wrote: »
    i cant be arsed. thats the honest truth. if you are asking me to show you were the irish government has put corporate business before people then you are either blind or havent bothered looking.

    For example - why do some large corporations get away with low tax whereas small businesses dont? Then plenty of examples - Im just not going to spoonfeed you

    Are these the large corporations your referring to
    https://www.siliconrepublic.com/jobs/employment-fdi-multinationals-ireland-ida
    The multinationals that employ nearly 1/4 million people in Ireland?


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    #271
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,660 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    Bonniedog wrote: »
    What sort of a socialist/left party proposes to lower corporation tax :)

    Leading shinners also own businesses including a certain Belfast hotel and security firms in which there is no trade union representation.

    more opinion rather than fact again. besides - not every shinner has to be exactly what the party espouses. You really are getting a tad silly.

    Im ending my conversation with you here as you're going in circles


This discussion has been closed.
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