European vs American views on racism

faceman · 01-06-2020 10:57am #1

Speaking to some American friends about racism this week raised some interesting views. One friend who is quite versed on black history in the US said this to me

wrote:

The biggest difference between America and Europe is Americans talk about racism and Europeans don’t. It’s so deeply imbedded into European countries you might not even see it. Europe is pathologically racist and America doesn’t lie about it. America know there is a problem hence race wars. America is a young country and slavery wasn’t that long ago.

I find this an interesting perspective. Do Europeans believe ourselves to be more mature or is it also rampant here, the difference being we don’t have guns?

Even from an Irish perspective we often here parallels being drawn with the whole “no Irish, no dogs” thing even though it’s not the same.

What are your views?

[Mod Note]
Please keep the discussion civil to fellow posters and relevant to OP's discussion at hand - ie. discussion of WW2 is offtopic.
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sheepsh4gger · 01-06-2020 2:22pm

Firstly there's no such thing as a 'European' point of view. Every country has its own culture and language.

Of course the Irish can't even name individual countries in Europe if you show them a map. Also they think going to Disney Land in France makes them experts on the continent. Isolation breeds hostility. Countries like Belgium are more tolerant as they actually border with other states.

If you compare different European countries Ireland is on the outskirts isolated from everyone else. It's a weird place that collaborated with German nazis in WW2 and doesn't use it's own language. It resembles UK more than any other country in Europe including cultural biases.

Americans are a nation of immigrants to begin with. Having interacted with many people from different countries - they are the most tolerant nation and quick to adapt things from other cultures. They don't really know how to be intolerant.

Harry Palmr · 01-06-2020 2:40pm

It's not as endemic and it's less violent, albeit black youth in places like Paris and London might say otherwise at times.

In the States racism has long been from the butt end of a gun, in the cities the police over there seem to be like an occupying force now. Suburban racists working places they neither know nor care about at all.

sheepsh4gger · 01-06-2020 3:02pm

The civil unrest has nothing to do with that cop kneeling. It's just an excuse to get free stuff.
White commies started rioting also, instigating violence. They were trying to infiltrate 4chan and provoke them into joining the riots. 4chan didn't care to join which exposed Antifa as terrorists.

Nozebleed · 01-06-2020 3:11pm

europeans would be more akin to discrimination than racism. everyone wants to cry racism these days. but only when its white on black. when people of all colours acknowlwdge that racism works both ways in maybe then it can be resolved.

partyguinness · 01-06-2020 3:23pm

The biggest difference between America and Europe is Americans talk about racism and Europeans don’t. It’s so deeply imbedded into European countries you might not even see it. Europe is pathologically racist and America doesn’t lie about it. America know there is a problem hence race wars. America is a young country and slavery wasn’t that long ago.

I find this very peculiar.

The US preaches integration but practices segregation. At least apartheid SA preached segregation and practiced segregation.

So the 'race wars' are an open tacit and free acknowledgment that racism exists? What does the person mean by 'race war'? Demonstrations etc about yet another senseless black killing is not a race war.

Your buddy is saying that the US is more open and honest about racsim because they "talk" about it? Talking about it is all well and good but what are the doing about it? Not a lot it seems.

Is there any other European country where the 'minority' populations are shoot, brutalised and incarcerated to the same degree?

Your buddy seems to have a very very narrow view. It is such a narrow view that it needs to be fleshed out properly.

Peregrinus · 01-06-2020 3:52pm

Of course European and American culture are both deeply imbued with racism. But that racism expresses itself in different ways.

In the US it manifests itself in more violent ways, in large part I think because the US generally has a more violent culture.

The OP's American friend felt that one of the differences is that "Americans talk about racism and Europeans don’t", but that's absurd. There is a constant discourse in most European countries about race and racism. A possible explanation for the American friend's perception is that he implicitly expects any discourse about racism to resemble the American discourse about racism, and he doesn't notice a discourse which is conducted differently.

partyguinness · 01-06-2020 3:58pm

Your buddy seems to think that because there is an absence of headline 'black' deaths, frequent violent clashes on the streets and that somehow this is akin to a society with deeply embedded and acceptable racism.

You can turn it around the other way- racism is so bad in the US that it leads to frequent violent clashes which you generally do not see in Europe to the same frequency.

[Deleted User] · 01-06-2020 4:12pm

sheepsh4gger wrote: »

If you compare different European countries Ireland is on the outskirts isolated from everyone else. It's a weird place that collaborated with German nazis in WW2

Excuse me? :rolleyes:

partyguinness · 01-06-2020 4:16pm

sheepsh4gger wrote: »

Of course the Irish can't even name individual countries in Europe if you show them a map. Also they think going to Disney Land in France makes them experts on the continent. Isolation breeds hostility. Countries like Belgium are more tolerant as they actually border with other states.

If you compare different European countries Ireland is on the outskirts isolated from everyone else. It's a weird place that collaborated with German nazis in WW2 and doesn't use it's own language. It resembles UK more than any other country in Europe including cultural biases.

Say what now? You need to find some smarter friends.

Of course Ireland (regrettably) shares a lot of cultural similarities with the UK- the British did not invade and colonise any other European country. They like to pick on the small guy who can't fight back.

sheepsh4gger · 01-06-2020 4:24pm

misterbizmuth wrote: »

Excuse me? :rolleyes:

Peregrinus · 01-06-2020 4:27pm

If the presence of Nazi collaborators in Ireland means that "Ireland collaborated with German Nazis in WW2" then you would have to agree that the UK and the USA also collaborated with German Nazis in WW2. There were similar collaborators in both of those countries.

Harry Palmr · 01-06-2020 4:29pm

partyguinness wrote: »

Say what now? You need to find some smarter friends.

Of course Ireland (regrettably) shares a lot of cultural similarities with the UK- the British did not invade and colonise any other European country. They like to pick on the small guy who can't fight back.

Who would they have invaded in say the 14th century? Scandinavia? Why would anyone go there? France, Spain, Portugal, Belgium, Netherlands, Italy, then later Germany, Austria all had their own empires. And they were countries that either one avoided for obvious reasons or had tactical arrangements with. It's all a stitch up and Ireland would have been invaded by someone.

partyguinness · 01-06-2020 4:30pm

sheepsh4gger wrote: »

Oh it's on some US YouTube channel. Well then, it must be true...:rolleyes:

There I was thinking you came up with that rubbish all by yourself. My bad.

sheepsh4gger · 01-06-2020 4:32pm

partyguinness wrote: »

Oh it's on some US YouTube channel. Well then, it must be true...:rolleyes:

There I was thinking you came up with that rubbish all by yourself. My bad.

Paddy Hitler, do you work at the Shelbourne?

MOD Note
Any further disparagingly posts will result in a warning and being threadbanned.

partyguinness · 01-06-2020 4:35pm

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Who would they have invaded in say the 14th century? Scandinavia? Why would anyone go there? France, Spain, Portugal, Belgium, Netherlands, Italy, then later Germany, Austria all had their own empires. And they were countries that either one avoided for obvious reasons or had tactical arrangements with. It's all a stitch up and Ireland would have been invaded by someone.

I don't disagree with you but that is beside the point I was making.

I was highlighting why Ireland shares such similarities with the UK when compared to other European countries rather than setting out the geopolitical reasons for it in the first instance which is a completely different debate.

sheepsh4gger · 01-06-2020 4:52pm

https://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/paddy-bridget-and-uncle-adolf-meet-the-irish-hitlers-26825755.html

partyguinness · 01-06-2020 5:00pm

Peregrinus wrote: »

If the presence of Nazi collaborators in Ireland means that "Ireland collaborated with German Nazis in WW2" then you would have to agree that the UK and the USA also collaborated with German Nazis in WW2. There were similar collaborators in both of those countries.

Pick off a few isolated connections Ireland/Irish people (what country did not have some connection as you mentioned) had with Nazi Germany and ergo the whole country is complicit in collaborating with the Nazis presumably from the Beer Hall Putsch in 1923 right down to the Final Solution.

I wouldn't take him too serious. You can tell from his posts that there is much bitterness and self hatred in his life.

sheepsh4gger · 01-06-2020 5:01pm

I wonder how the photographer and newspaper editor could be so daft. Or maybe they support the cause, who knows.

Peregrinus · 01-06-2020 5:08pm

That's it? That's your evidence that Ireland collaborated with the Nazis in World War 2?

Jesus, I could make a better fist of supporting your claim than you can. And I know your claim is rubbish.

partyguinness · 01-06-2020 5:10pm

sheepsh4gger wrote: »

I wonder how the photographer and newspaper editor could be so daft. Or maybe they support the cause, who knows.

Are you incapable of making a clear concise point?

Why are you posting a clip from a Father Ted episode again? You do realise that it was a fictional comedy show and not a documentary.

sheepsh4gger · 02-06-2020 1:36am

I watch yesterday Antifa's raid on the /pol board of 4chan. The mods there became extremely strict (no slide thread banter). The commies were trying to instigate violence. Obvious bait and nobody was catching it. This made AF desperate and they were spamming like crazy. Finally BLM turned against Antifa, it and was beautiful. Basically black nationalists joined white nationalists against these rabid Marxists.

Gets interesting at 6:30

Black Americans also read Robert Greene and know the Machiavelli tactics.

[Deleted User] · 02-06-2020 1:40am

I think that any person who believes their skin colour gives them rights over other people of a different skin colour is a racist.

That goes for white on black, black on white, or any on any.

Feeling superior or even inferior is racist. People are more than their skin colour. Thinking otherwise is ridiculous

bertiebomber · 01-12-2020 7:35pm

Each country in Europe has its own racial problems we didn't have any until our government started to import the criminals from Africa that angel merkel didnt want from the million she invited to germany. Bringing them and the middle easterns to our shores has seen racism raise its head as they dont fit in to our culture and refuse to integrate into it either. They seem to have a pattern of ghettoizing areas and having gang war fare like they would in africa they never lose the savage mentality. They cant integrate they dont know how. Ireland is quite an accepting nation of people but these folk are born fighters / survivors and they take advantage of our generoisity until one day they will walk all over us.

European vs American views on racism

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