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15-02-2021, 15:59   #3766
PommieBast
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You want the taxpayer to pay for someone's hotel stay?

Or someone else?
For that price? Yes. They should have used cheaper hotels.



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I see this as less of a problem than politely asking people to restrict their movements out of a sense of concern for others.
The problem was that they never bothered checking on people. Not even a phone call.
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15-02-2021, 16:03   #3767
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For that price? Yes. They should have used cheaper hotels.
Don't you think that is part of the strategy to discourage travel?
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15-02-2021, 17:02   #3768
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The problem was that they never bothered checking on people. Not even a phone call.
It's been reported that they had capacity issues. So, yes they did make calls. Just not enough to get every arrival.

To my mind they should have recruited far far more contact tracers from the industries who were shut down.
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15-02-2021, 20:29   #3769
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It's been reported that they had capacity issues. So, yes they did make calls. Just not enough to get every arrival.

To my mind they should have recruited far far more contact tracers from the industries who were shut down.

Cabin crew across Europe were used in many roles such as contact tracing and primary care in the early stages but not here. Also being used as first aid trained to help out with vaccinations. But I think this would only highlight how little vaccine the Irish government has which is why its a softly softly approach. Probably same reason for why each and every chemist isn't jabbing.
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15-02-2021, 21:39   #3770
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It's not vaccination but 2 cabin crew who I know got work in Covid-19 test centres.
Neither of them has any work from their actual employer so 3-4 shifts a week in the centre filling in paperwork gives them some sense of helping out.
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15-02-2021, 23:25   #3771
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It's been reported that they had capacity issues. So, yes they did make calls. Just not enough to get every arrival.
It would be interesting to know what percentage of arrivals they spoke to. I travelled in July and September last year - and I isolated for two weeks afterwards on both occasions. I wasn’t called after either trip.
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16-02-2021, 10:06   #3772
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It would be interesting to know what percentage of arrivals they spoke to. I travelled in July and September last year - and I isolated for two weeks afterwards on both occasions. I wasn’t called after either trip.
I recall reading a article about. I think their capacity was 1500 a day, which is pretty paltry in my opinion.
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16-02-2021, 12:05   #3773
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Cabin crew across Europe were used in many roles such as contact tracing and primary care in the early stages but not here. Also being used as first aid trained to help out with vaccinations. But I think this would only highlight how little vaccine the Irish government has which is why its a softly softly approach. Probably same reason for why each and every chemist isn't jabbing.
Err.. Ireland is getting the exact same amount of vaccines as every other EU country (proportional to population of course).

In terms of rollout of vaccine, we are currently above the EU average, in 9th position. We are actually quiet a bit ahead big countries like Germany, France, Italy, etc.

We were like 3rd in the EU last week, but the decision not to use the Astrazenca/Oxford vaccine in over 65 year olds slowed the planned rollout down a bit last week versus countries that have gone ahead using it on over 65's.

That is a safety issue and given the data currently available the right decision for now. It shouldn't be a big issue, it will only slow things down a week or two and over 65's will get the more effective Pfizer/Biontech vaccine, while the Oxford one will still get used, just for different groups then originally planned.

As to your point in using cabin crew to vaccinate. Being trained in first aid isn't enough training to vaccinate people, you need extra training to do that.

But it isn't really necessary now, the bottleneck continues to be manufacturing of the vaccines, not trained vaccinators. We have over 6,000 vaccinators, but we averaging about 7,000 vaccines a day. So as you can see, the issue isn't people, but the amount of vaccines we have.

I'd expect vaccination rates to really pick up next month as the Oxford vaccine is distributed widely through GP's and pharmacies.

In other good Vaccine news:

- Pfizer opened their new factory in Germany and it has produced it's first doses. Pfizer has also partnered with Sanofi to use their factories to produce another 125 million doses.

- The J&J vaccine, a single dose one, came out with very good looking results (better then Oxford, not as good as the mRNA ones) and looks like it will get EMA authorization in a couple of weeks.

- The Novavox vaccine showed very good interim results, almost as good as the mRNA ones and that includes testing against both the UK variant and the South African one. They are expecting to finish their trial in a few weeks and get authorization soon after. The good news about this one was that it was tested against the new variants.
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16-02-2021, 12:11   #3774
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As to your point in using cabin crew to vaccinate. Being trained in first aid isn't enough training to vaccinate people, you need extra training to do that.
.
Realistically how much training is really needed,?
go walk through dublin 8 and there are plenty of lads and ladies who have plenty of experience with using needles who seem to manage fine...
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16-02-2021, 12:19   #3775
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Realistically how much training is really needed,?
go walk through dublin 8 and there are plenty of lads and ladies who have plenty of experience with using needles who seem to manage fine...
Ughhh... In case you are serious, it is more to do with dealing with possible side effects, in particular anaphylactic shock.

Anyway, as I mentioned, they simply aren't needed. Between GP's, nurses, pharmacists, school vaccinators and Ambulance crews / Firefighters, they have plenty of people to do it.

Where they could perhaps use other people is simply around the organisation and administration, checking people in, taking details, filling in forms, etc. Free up the actual medical staff to focus on just the medical side.

And contact tracers and possibly Covid testers. Some medical staff have been doing these jobs, they'll want to put them on the vaccination drive now and have others do those jobs instead.
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16-02-2021, 12:52   #3776
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Ughhh... In case you are serious, it is more to do with dealing with possible side effects, in particular anaphylactic shock.

Anyway, as I mentioned, they simply aren't needed. Between GP's, nurses, pharmacists, school vaccinators and Ambulance crews / Firefighters, they have plenty of people to do it.

Where they could perhaps use other people is simply around the organisation and administration, checking people in, taking details, filling in forms, etc. Free up the actual medical staff to focus on just the medical side.

And contact tracers and possibly Covid testers. Some medical staff have been doing these jobs, they'll want to put them on the vaccination drive now and have others do those jobs instead.
You are talking with sense though and for that reason I don't see any of it happening despite the Gov paying these people to stay at home.
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16-02-2021, 13:54   #3777
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Ughhh... In case you are serious, it is more to do with dealing with possible side effects, in particular anaphylactic shock.

Anyway, as I mentioned, they simply aren't needed. Between GP's, nurses, pharmacists, school vaccinators and Ambulance crews / Firefighters, they have plenty of people to do it.

Where they could perhaps use other people is simply around the organisation and administration, checking people in, taking details, filling in forms, etc. Free up the actual medical staff to focus on just the medical side.

And contact tracers and possibly Covid testers. Some medical staff have been doing these jobs, they'll want to put them on the vaccination drive now and have others do those jobs instead.
Im not serious about getting junkies to do it, but I am serious about how much they realistically need to be trained.
Nurses and doctors are better deployed elsewhere.

So in a vaccination centre would all of the people administering vaccines be trained in what to do with this shock or would there be designated people who would take over?

I find the notion that you need to have a massive amount of training to administer what is a jab in the arm crazy in this particular situation.
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16-02-2021, 16:37   #3778
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Im not serious about getting junkies to do it, but I am serious about how much they realistically need to be trained.
Nurses and doctors are better deployed elsewhere.

So in a vaccination centre would all of the people administering vaccines be trained in what to do with this shock or would there be designated people who would take over?

I find the notion that you need to have a massive amount of training to administer what is a jab in the arm crazy in this particular situation.
Being first aid trained does not mean you are medical professional or have the skills to vaccinate. To be clear, it would be illegal for them to vaccinate people.

In order to vaccinate, you need to be trained to administer intramuscular injections and PHECC registered practitioner. There are about 5,500 people, mostly paramedics with Dublin Fire brigade and the National Ambulance service, but also volunteers in the likes of St John's Ambulance service and Physios.

Of course these are in addition to Doctors, nurses and pharmacists.

I honestly can't believe I'm having this conversation in an airline forum. I would hope most people in the airline industry would understand the need for proper training and certification. This suggestion is the equivalent of someone saying couldn't a 737 pilot just jump in the cockpit of a A350 and fly it without a type rating!

If cabin crew are interested in helping out, fantastic, then they could volunteer with the likes of St John's Ambulance, Red Cross, etc. and get the required training and register with PHECC. I'm sure they would be delighted to get new volunteers with first aid training and the help would be greatly appreciated.

But it is important that this is all done properly, we will have enough issues with anti-vaxxer folks without giving them ammo by having untrained and unregistered folks carrying out vaccinations!

BTW as an aside, the fact that most fire fighters with Dublin Fire brigade are trained and experienced paramedics is a large and great resource to help out with this.

But this conversation is all largely pointless as for now we have more people who can vaccinate, then we do vaccines.
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16-02-2021, 16:56   #3779
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As someone who is first aid trained I would guess that using my experience would be better employed monitoring those people who have just be3n vaccinated, compiling the paperwork and assisting the actual medical staff.

But as stated above among all our resources we already have 1000s of trained people to actually administer the vaccines.
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16-02-2021, 16:56   #3780
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Here is the training that a Pharmacist needs to get to do the Pfizer/Moderna vaccines in a vaccination center as part of a larger vaccination team (including Doctors, etc. to assist):

https://www.thepsi.ie/tns/news/Coron...istsCOVID.aspx

It includes them having to do 5 separate training courses and that is for an experienced Pharmacist!
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