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18-08-2020, 14:14   #2296
Irish Steve
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I can tell you now, if Shannon is closed, FF and FG will never see a candidate returned in Clare or Limerick ever again. That's how high feelings run around this issue
And you really think any other political party will be capable of squaring that circle?

If it didn't exist, there is no way that a brand new airport would be built at Shannon, but the fact that it is there, with the size runway that it has, and has a range of industries both aviation related and otherwise means that it should be capable of continuing to survive, but as to if it can survive with the present size of terminal and the like is a very different story, and at some stage, those issues are going to have to be addressed by all the stakeholders, and all the political parties, the long term future of Shannon HAS to be looked at on a wider basis than just the party political parish pump level that all too often completely damns Irish Political life.
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18-08-2020, 14:26   #2297
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And you really think any other political party will be capable of squaring that circle?

If it didn't exist, there is no way that a brand new airport would be built at Shannon, but the fact that it is there, with the size runway that it has, and has a range of industries both aviation related and otherwise means that it should be capable of continuing to survive, but as to if it can survive with the present size of terminal and the like is a very different story, and at some stage, those issues are going to have to be addressed by all the stakeholders, and all the political parties, the long term future of Shannon HAS to be looked at on a wider basis than just the party political parish pump level that all too often completely damns Irish Political life.
I’d say a few years of no/minuscule traffic would be needed to show it’s dead before any politician even toyed with the idea.

Unfortunately that could be starting this year.
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18-08-2020, 14:37   #2298
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When the new runway in DUB opens, Shannon's only advantage over DUB for EMG diversions is gone.
Unfortunately, the new runway in Dublin while longer than the current one for taking off, due to the planned displaced threshold on the new 28R/10L, the actual landing distance available will only be approximately 50m longer than the current 28/10, and still significantly too short for most aircraft, particularly heavy widebody aircraft to land on above their maximum landing weights.

Whether that will serve as a reason to keep Shannon going or not remains to be seen, but it is a factor that will have to be considered.

Another short sighted decision on behalf of aviation and infastructure in Ireland.
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18-08-2020, 14:37   #2299
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There are now political demands for it to be brought back under the DAA, after having been moved out seperate due to political demands... the airport equivalent of a cat at the back door.
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18-08-2020, 15:15   #2300
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Whats the cost of having SNN 'open' per year ? ( assume min capex and no airport income )
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18-08-2020, 15:26   #2301
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Whats the cost of having SNN 'open' per year ? ( assume min capex and no airport income )
The Depreciation charge on the airport and terminal building is €3m annually on its own.
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18-08-2020, 15:33   #2302
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Unfortunately, the new runway in Dublin while longer than the current one for taking off, due to the planned displaced threshold on the new 28R/10L, the actual landing distance available will only be approximately 50m longer than the current 28/10, and still significantly too short for most aircraft, particularly heavy widebody aircraft to land on above their maximum landing weights.

Whether that will serve as a reason to keep Shannon going or not remains to be seen, but it is a factor that will have to be considered.

Another short sighted decision on behalf of aviation and infastructure in Ireland.
Has this always been the case? What the hell is the reason for the displaced thresholds? Madness.
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18-08-2020, 16:01   #2303
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Unfortunately, the new runway in Dublin while longer than the current one for taking off, due to the planned displaced threshold on the new 28R/10L, the actual landing distance available will only be approximately 50m longer than the current 28/10, and still significantly too short for most aircraft, particularly heavy widebody aircraft to land on above their maximum landing weights.

Whether that will serve as a reason to keep Shannon going or not remains to be seen, but it is a factor that will have to be considered.

Another short sighted decision on behalf of aviation and infastructure in Ireland.
DUB will still be the number one choice for emergency aircraft in Irish airspace for widebodies, particularly at night (it is already), due the lack of immediate required level of fire cover at Shannon. No 777 / A350 / 787 etc is going to hold with a dying passenger or fire alarm in the baggage compartment while the on call fire crews get to Shannon. And if they can visual the landing they can land prior to the displaced threshold anyway. If anything the idea of doing that would appeal to the yanks in particular.

Last edited by HTCOne; 18-08-2020 at 16:07.
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18-08-2020, 16:05   #2304
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Has this always been the case? What the hell is the reason for the displaced thresholds? Madness.
Sometimes it is for noise abatement, keeps aircraft higher until within the airport perimeter to keep nimbys happy. Sometimes it is for obstacle clearance on the final approach. No idea why they’ve done it in DUB, unless it is to prevent a GE90 sending our transient cousins living at the 28L threshold on a free flight to Wales?

Edit: Forgot departures can use full length. Maybe they’re worried about wind shear from the hangars like on RWY 24 at Shannon? That’s caused a few accidents in its time.

Last edited by HTCOne; 18-08-2020 at 16:13.
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18-08-2020, 16:08   #2305
rivegauche
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Unfortunately, the new runway in Dublin while longer than the current one for taking off, due to the planned displaced threshold on the new 28R/10L, the actual landing distance available will only be approximately 50m longer than the current 28/10, and still significantly too short for most aircraft, particularly heavy widebody aircraft to land on above their maximum landing weights.

Whether that will serve as a reason to keep Shannon going or not remains to be seen, but it is a factor that will have to be considered.

Another short sighted decision on behalf of aviation and infastructure in Ireland.
As long as Aer Lingus A321LRs and maybe XLRs in the future (and similar from other airlines) can get in an out of the airport who really cares except for empire builders.
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18-08-2020, 18:59   #2306
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DUB will still be the number one choice for emergency aircraft in Irish airspace for widebodies, particularly at night (it is already), due the lack of immediate required level of fire cover at Shannon. No 777 / A350 / 787 etc is going to hold with a dying passenger or fire alarm in the baggage compartment while the on call fire crews get to Shannon. And if they can visual the landing they can land prior to the displaced threshold anyway. If anything the idea of doing that would appeal to the yanks in particular.
My crowd (wide body operator) have a flight coming across the Atlantic tonight, SNN is the nominated enroute alternate between 01z and 04z. We can operate with the RFF cover temp reduced to 7.

Our ops manual allows us to land within the touchdown zone but forbids landing before a displaced threshold. It can be used for take off but not landing.
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18-08-2020, 19:13   #2307
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If the financial viability of Shannon in its current form had any bearing on its continued operation it would have been shut down years ago.

There is absolutely no need, since the improvement of the road network, for an airport of the physical size of Shannon to continue to operate at that location. There is, however, probably justification for a small to moderate sized regional airport to serve Limerick and the mid west, serving around 1m passengers a year, with some limited small scale cargo operations.

There is no need for night time operation, emergency cover or, being honest, transatlantic services at Shannon any more. A moderate UK and European network of city and sun routes is all that is needed, alongside a connection to Heathrow or another major hub airport.

Whether the current situation will finally bring about the badly warranted resizing of the airport remains to be seen, but any proposed cuts will be met by large scale local opposition, regardless of the validity of the arguments.
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18-08-2020, 20:34   #2308
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Shannon is now very well connected to Dublin via the N18/M7 and will (eventually) be very well connected to Cork once the M20/N40 get done. Then its just asking to be closed.

I have no doubt that it won't be closed though. Not in Ireland with the Parish Pump.
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18-08-2020, 20:41   #2309
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Shannon is desperately needed for the future of the Midwest. People here are sick of seeing Dublin get everything. Time is spread the wealth around a bit, hence the pressure on all our local TDs...
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18-08-2020, 20:52   #2310
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Christ this mantra of Dublin getting everything is such a brain-dead comment that doesn't take any facts into account except locality politics. I hear the same nonsense spouted in my own hometown.

Dublin is the capital city, with the largest and wealthiest catchment area, best infrastructure in the state to all cities and towns and largest airport facility in the country. Airlines operate there for those reasons and there is massive choice as a result it is on that basis why people travel from all corner points of Ireland to this Airport including from the other largest cities of Belfast and Cork.

They aren't charities and don't operate their business models with giving fair shares to regions of Ireland - They operate to make money and they will never make money diverging business on the basis to make happy unemployable TD's in a region where the skilled population and wealth is reducing.

I'm sorry these are facts and you may not like them but it will not change in the next decade.
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