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21-03-2019, 16:50   #46
AlmightyCushion
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Originally Posted by Inviere View Post
I appreciate that what I personally feel is relevant, another poster might not, and vice versa. I used those examples for these reasons; Tony's mental health problems are just that, problems. It's not something that's going to cause trolling, offense, and arguing etc. It's directly connected to Tony's career, and will determine if and/or when we might see Tony in the ring again - we're all rooting for him I'm sure, so it's something that'd be good in terms of discussion, and community building.

Similarly, McGregor's beach antics could have an impact on his career also. It's another bump in the road, a very long and bumpy road of late, for McGregor. Ok, it's a subject that could harbour ill will/fighter bashing, but I think to outlaw discussion on it is really exposing the fact that we need more versatile definitions of acceptable/not acceptable topics here. It made headlines, so it should be acknowledged, with a heavy handed approach to fighter bashing/trolling.

Proper 12, Tony McGregor, Instagram Babies, and what not, have no relevance to fights, upcoming fights, potential fights, careers, UFC, MMA...those sort of things (imo) are completely and totally irrelevant here. They fuel fighter bashing, posts antagonise people, causes I'm sure a not insignificant extra work for Axwell, and are discussions of no value in an MMA forum. Boards will cater to that type of thing, just go to AH or the Celebrity forums to do it.



But how many people here are interested in hearing about McGregor's career? Is he training again? He's been seen training here, there, somewhere else. Has he fallen out with Kavanagh? He's just promised Nate a trilogy match, can he possibly adapt to overcome Khabib? Will he get the winner of Poirier and Holloway? How will he fare against a much improved version of Max/Dustin if he does?

^^ Personally, I love all that stuff. Am I interested in Proper 12, Instagram rumours, Tony McGregor, Whatsaap groups that claim Conor's friends cousin's sister's Aunt knows a fella that seen McGregor do something bad? Fook no.



It's possibly the most flexible solution Beasty, but again, my only concern is that a thread such as that would encompass some of the good stuff too, meaning people might have to trawl through some serious OT stuff to get to it. I do agree though, how to determine "the good stuff" from the not so, is the problem.
Tony's mental health issues could definitely attract trolling and offense. Proper 12 is relevant to McGregor's fight career. People have already brought up how he's spending too much time on it and losing his focus, not training enough as a result.
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21-03-2019, 17:11   #47
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Originally Posted by Inviere View Post
I appreciate that what I personally feel is relevant, another poster might not, and vice versa. I used those examples for these reasons; Tony's mental health problems are just that, problems. It's not something that's going to cause trolling, offense, and arguing etc. It's directly connected to Tony's career, and will determine if and/or when we might see Tony in the ring again - we're all rooting for him I'm sure, so it's something that'd be good in terms of discussion, and community building.
Just in reference to this - a post was made not so long ago regarding Matt Hughes and a restraining order placed against him for similar reasons. The posts that followed were less than sympathetic, name calling and opinions of him and generally added nothing in the form of adult discussion. People also have different opinions on fighters, not everyone is guaranteed to like or be rooting for a fighter. So it's not as clear cut as to assume it's not going to cause offence, arguing etc - it led to name calling and fighter bashing in this case alone. Every case is different and those are just two examples which fall on either side of the coin.

As regards the overall discussion on adding a thread for gossip/other relevant topics. While people have different opinions on what is relevant or what is interesting to them. Common sense on what is acceptable and not acceptable regardless of the topic is something that seems to either be ignored or people just don't think before they post. Some people also are just trolls clearly there to provoke a reaction from others and have little or no interest in proper discussion regardless of the topic, they do not post on any other threads for the most part in the forum. If there is a discussion about McGregor smashing a phone, what exactly is someone adding to the discussion dropping in to post 'he's a knacker'? Discussion about how it might affect when he fights next, or what his mental state is are relevant and there is room for that but the posters dropping in with comments like 'cocaine is a hell of a drug' etc..they are just juvenile and show a level of immaturity that drags the thread into nonsense comments adding no value and off topic conversation about accusations of recreational drug use which has nothing to do with MMA. I personally couldn't care less about what he does outside the cage. I see some people claim as a mod I am biased towards him. My only interest is what he does inside the cage, outside of it I couldn't care less about his antics and have no interest in the drama it brings however as a mod I have to deal with the nonsense that people post on here. Many simply ignoring the charter about fighter bashing, name calling etc - it has nothing to do with being biased, people are simply not following the rules laid out on the forum. The fact that a whole thread is dedicated to him and he is in the media more often lately than in the cage means, as a result, there is obviously more cases of these type of rule breaks in relation to him over other fighters but the rules still apply and people will face repercussions as a result.

If people want to be able to discuss a wider range of topics and that was approved then the onus is on them to realise as a result there is an expectation that any discussion is done so in an adult manner, if it isn't then people should not be shocked or surprised if they are carded or banned. At the end of the day this is an MMA forum, not a gossip column and while there are wider topics that flow into the discussion if you are here simply to gossip and goad other people or just generally add nothing to the forum but nonsense comments then you are on the wrong place.

If there is to be some sort of move towards having a separate thread for gossip/related stories/whatever and that is what is decided then it should be expected that it will be moderated with a heavy hand and nonsense will simply not be tolerated. It can't be treated like a free for all where anything goes because it is in the 'gossip' thread and not in the 'MMA focussed thread'. Otherwise, there is little point in adding such a thread just for the nonsense to move from one thread to another with the same disregard for what is acceptable and what is not.

Last edited by Axwell; 21-03-2019 at 17:22.
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21-03-2019, 17:31   #48
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Tony's mental health issues could definitely attract trolling and offense.
That's what the charter is there to protect against. There needs to be very little in the form of leeway on this, and is mentioned by Axwell below, people are taking advantage of it. Trolling and offensive comments for the sake of being offensive, week off. Next time, month off. Again? Bye bye. That needs to be applied across the board, all threads, all users, for it to be effective. It needs to be backed up by more mods too, for the sake of Axwell's own mental health!

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Proper 12 is relevant to McGregor's fight career. People have already brought up how he's spending too much time on it and losing his focus, not training enough as a result.
Not in the way that Tony's problems are relevant. Tony wants to fight, mental breakdown isn't a distraction, it's an affliction. Even at that, fair enough, if Proper 12 is on the cards, the same applies - a near zero tolerance on nonsense trolling. If it's distracting him from training, fine, that's his choice. I don't see it as relevant, if some do, fair enough.

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Just in reference to this - a post was made not so long ago regarding Matt Hughes and a restraining order placed against him for similar reasons. The posts that followed were less than sympathetic, name calling and opinions of him and generally added nothing in the form of adult discussion. People also have different opinions on fighters, not everyone is guaranteed to like or be rooting for a fighter. So it's not as clear cut as to assume it's not going to cause offence, arguing etc - it led to name calling and fighter bashing in this case alone. Every case is different and those are just two examples which fall on either side of the coin.
The domestic violence stuff? Indeed, I can see how that would spark some heated debate. Again though, I don't think the topic needs to be censored here - just apply a hard and fast banning policy on fighter bashing/trolling. If people can't debate the issue without resorting to name calling, bashing, and antagonising others, let the charter fall down upon them...that leaves the topic open for those of us who are capable of discussing more serious matters affecting fighters, in a mature way.

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If there is a discussion about McGregor smashing a phone, what exactly is someone adding to the discussion dropping in to post 'he's a knacker'? Discussion about how it might affect when he fights next, or what his mental state is are relevant and there is room for that but the posters dropping in with comments like 'cocaine is a hell of a drug' etc..they are just juvenile and show a level of immaturity that drags the thread into nonsense comments adding no value and off topic conversation about accusations of recreational drug use which has nothing to do with MMA.
"He's a knacker" and "cocaine is a hell of a drug" and those types of comments should be an instaban. I think anyone here who'd like to see such debate, and have no issue debating it in a mature fashion, would applaud you for taking hard/fast action on that exact type of comment. Let them take it to the DRP, speak to Cmods & Admins, if it's in the charter it's a slam dunk ban. Next time will be a longer one too. You'll gradually clean the house with that approach, and gain support from forum regulars who hate that nonsense anyway.

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I personally couldn't care less about what he does outside the cage. I see some people claim as a mod I am biased towards him. My only interest is what he does inside the cage, outside of it I couldn't care less about his antics and have no interest in the drama it brings however as a mod I have to deal with the nonsense that people post on here. Many simply ignoring the charter about fighter bashing, name calling etc - it has nothing to do with being biased, people are simply not following the rules laid out on the forum. The fact that a whole thread is dedicated to him and he is in the media more often in the cage means, as a result, there is obviously more cases of these type of rule breaks in relation to him over other fighters but the rules still apply and people will face repercussions as a result.
I sympathise with you, I'd say the forum is a total headache at times. From one poster to another, a genuine piece of advice, work on getting some help for yourself in terms of more mods. Train them in, get yourselves working as a team, and I think tackling trolls becomes a lot easier, your own enjoyment of the site will go up, and it'll be a significant load off your back.

Quote:
If there is to be some sort of move towards having a separate thread for gossip/related stories/whatever and that is what is decided then it should be expected that it will be moderated with a heavy hand and nonsense will simply not be tolerated. It can't be treated like a free for all where anything goes because it is in the 'gossip' thread and not in the 'MMA focussed thread'. Otherwise, there is little point in adding such a thread just for the nonsense to move from one thread to another with the same disregard for what is acceptable and what is not.
Go one further, apply that policy forum-wide.
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21-03-2019, 17:35   #49
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I sympathise with you, I'd say the forum is a total headache at times. From one poster to another, a genuine piece of advice, work on getting some help for yourself in terms of more mods. Train them in, get yourselves working as a team, and I think tackling trolls becomes a lot easier, your own enjoyment of the site will go up, and it'll be a significant load off your back.
As was mentioned above we have been going through the process of getting a few more bodies on board but there hasn't been much uptake as most aren't interested in the position due to the McGregor thread and the attention it requires.
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21-03-2019, 17:47   #50
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As was mentioned above we have been going through the process of getting a few more bodies on board but there hasn't been much uptake as most aren't interested in the position due to the McGregor thread and the attention it requires.
I was about to suggest branching out and see if the mods of Martial Arts & Self Defence would be interested, but that forum doesn't even have mods
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23-03-2019, 10:29   #51
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Might it be worth destroying the McGregor thread? Any news related to him can be put in the general MMA thread whether it's a fight announcement or update like 'Conor arrested again' just like I'd expect a big news update about any MMA fighter where it's about fighting or not.

Obviously, gossip would have no place there bar the actual MMA journalist rumours. As in, no 'my brothers sisters uncle said a taxi driver told him Conor is after having an affair with Artem'.

Might be easier to mod the blow ins from after hours every time Conor sneezes but we would still be able to have actual MMA related discussions about what goes on in and outside the cage.

Being a former mod on a very quiet forum, the odd few complaints and bickering did my head in. No idea how Axwel deals with some of the shyte on here while trying to avoid legality issues.

Anyway, just a suggestion.
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23-03-2019, 10:54   #52
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Remember the days when it was just fighting! While the growth of the sport has been amazing its led to the mainstream media getting involved and created this hunger for the "off the field" reporting we now see just as much as the actual fight reporting. I think the forum needs to reflect that. While a lot of people will come just for the fight threads there will also be a lot of people who come to the forum as football supporter style fans just as interested in the off field antics.

We almost need a few different rule sets now; one for event threads where everything has to relate to that actual event which should probably not extend further than speculation as to who someone in a fight should face next. Second general news threads whether it be a UFC one or an any other promotion one that still sticks to news around actual fights/fighters/that promotion and then another section of off topic threads where things outside of the ring/octagon can be discussed that way people will have clear expectations of what they are getting involved with in each thread. Basically if McGregor is in a fight it goes in the fight thread if he's winding up other fighters on the roster it goes in the general news thread and if hes got a new car/watch/whisky it goes in an off topic thread. That way everyone can discuss the aspects of him they want to discuss, hopefully, without annoying too many people!

There is a similar structure to this in the fantasy sports arena forum where there are quite clearly defined rules as to what can be posted in each thread; one for injuries, one for price changes, one for match days, one for international matches, one that's just off topic etc. and there it works very well. It's worth giving it a shot here too imo.
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23-03-2019, 10:57   #53
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Might it be worth destroying the McGregor thread? Any news related to him can be put in the general MMA thread whether it's a fight announcement or update like 'Conor arrested again' just like I'd expect a big news update about any MMA fighter where it's about fighting or not.

Obviously, gossip would have no place there bar the actual MMA journalist rumours. As in, no 'my brothers sisters uncle said a taxi driver told him Conor is after having an affair with Artem'.

Might be easier to mod the blow ins from after hours every time Conor sneezes but we would still be able to have actual MMA related discussions about what goes on in and outside the cage.

Being a former mod on a very quiet forum, the odd few complaints and bickering did my head in. No idea how Axwel deals with some of the shyte on here while trying to avoid legality issues.

Anyway, just a suggestion.
Yeah the success of that thread has almost been its downfall since so many people see that thread on the front page and it brings in the folk who normally just reside in Afyer Hours! Axwell does a great job of keeping this forum on track not sure how he manages to stay sane!
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24-03-2019, 02:29   #54
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If you put all the McGregor stuff in the general chat thread then it take over that thread. Any other stuff will get lost and it will just piss off the people who want to ignore all the McGregor stuff.
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24-03-2019, 09:49   #55
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I think a general off topic chat thread would solve a lot.

It there is too much CMcG chat in it we can address that, but at least give it a go..
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24-03-2019, 11:09   #56
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I think the issue with having, for example, a specific McGregor "chat"-type thread is not only will it attract "outsiders" who have no interest in the sport, but also it is likely to encourage the type of gossip and in particular speculation that falls foul of site rules (and could cause legal issues).

My view therefore would be to have a general off-topic thread that includes McGregor specific "chatty" stuff as well as discussions over the price of eggs etc. Then the McGregor thread (I would suggest a completely new one) only has "sporting" discussion
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24-03-2019, 12:07   #57
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Could a situation where you have to have X amount of posts in the MMA forum in order to get access to the McGregor thread work? Sort of like how you have to have X amount of posts on the site to get access to the Soccer forum?

The main issues I see with the McGregor thread aren’t really from regulars that post on here (yeah we have disagreements from time to time but the discussion and debate is largely constructive) it’s from the likes of the After Hours crowd who will dip in to post 5-10 times about a McGregor related issue that arises and then hit the road until the next one crops up, never bothering to make any sort of contribution in the general or fight card threads. It’s an MMA forum and surely it should be expected that any posters will add to it in some constructive way, shape or form?

50-100 posts in the MMA forum required before getting access to the McGregor thread would soon put a stop to the majority of the hassle, IMO. Half of them wouldn’t be bothered to rack up such a post count for the sake of trolling and the other half would probably be banned for off topic (McGregor related, most likely) or ridiculous posting in the other MMA threads.

The Soccer forum can be a tough go at times but can you imagine what it would be like without the difficulty in getting accesss to it!?
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24-03-2019, 12:25   #58
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Could a situation where you have to have X amount of posts in the MMA forum in order to get access to the McGregor thread work? Sort of like how you have to have X amount of posts on the site to get access to the Soccer forum?
The only way it works with Soccer is everyone needs to apply for access - same as Politics Café. We can't impose any other "automatic" way of addressing it, and that pretty much then excludes any "casual" interest around particular events as it can only be imposed at forum, and not thread, level.

Even in those 2 forums I mention above, plenty then try and circumvent the rules by starting threads elsewhere
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24-03-2019, 12:43   #59
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Could you have a restricted McGregor subforum that requires approval? Seems crazy it would be a whole forum but would leave the rest of the place to discuss actual mma related topics.
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24-03-2019, 12:57   #60
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Could you have a restricted McGregor subforum that requires approval? Seems crazy it would be a whole forum but would leave the rest of the place to discuss actual mma related topics.
Technically yes but I wouldn't wish the management headache of access to it on the mod team.

It would be serious sledgehammer vs nut.

Just my opinion btw, not saying it can't happen.
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