Zimbabwe

Mahatma coat · 16-12-2008 2:05am #1

Seriously WTF is going on over there

why has it been let get to this point

what are thew rest of the world going to do about it

Thoughts

I have some theories of my own but I'[ll let others post first.

Actually I might see about puttin one of them time delay thingys on my next post and see if anyone else comes up with the same theory

Mahatma coat · 16-12-2008 2:07am

I'm sure thats a function somewhere, I'm off to read the ModUtils again

Sod it, I must have been thinkin of something else, anyway I dont want to post my theories first as at this stage anything that I say will derail a thread into discussions about me rather than the topic at hand

Shazbot · 16-12-2008 10:42am

Again you raise a political agenda in the CT forum and then refuse to state your theory.

That's a very backward way of starting a topic. Here's topic X, tell me your opinion on X then I'll tell you mine.

You obviously want to get something off your chest about Zimbabwe so just do it and don't wait for approval by the masses.

starn · 16-12-2008 11:01am

Can you just get to your point please, otherwise why did you bother starting the thread

Diogenes · 16-12-2008 1:22pm

Mahatma coat wrote: »

Seriously WTF is going on over there

why has it been let get to this point

Because Mugabe has had the continued support, politcaly financially and miltary support from both China and Sth Africa. In fact it was an ad hoc protest from South Afrcian Dockers that ensured Mugabe didn't receive his weapons.

what are thew rest of the world going to do about it

Thoughts

I have some theories of my own but I'[ll let others post first.

Actually I might see about puttin one of them time delay thingys on my next post and see if anyone else comes up with the same theory

Well theres one thought I look forward to you airing yours.

starn · 16-12-2008 2:10pm

Actually I think youll find that the dock workers are actually thetans and thus high ranking members of the NWO. They only made it appear sa if they were striking so they could smugle secret technology developed by Nickla Tesla out of a different port in SA to Zimbabwee. Which is being used along with North Korea as a testing ground for the weaponised technology..

Anywhere close MC ???

Sofa_King Good · 16-12-2008 2:16pm

Well it might have something to do with the fact that ..." after president Robert Mugabe earlier this year (2006) announced government plans to change mining laws and take a 51 per cent stake in mining operations.Zimbabwe also mines tin, chrome, copper, iron and coal. It has southern Africa's largest deposits of high quality coal in the western Hwange district."

Irish Times

So it is one of the few African countries yet to be carved up by international bankers.

In Zimbabwe an Irish company..."African Gold actually runs a gold mine, although it is in highly unstable Zimbabwe and is only operating at break-even.

The company is of interest, however, because it was recently bought into by a group including Oliver Baring, of the famous banking family. Mr Baring and a group of associated investors bought 40 million shares in the company as well as 40 million warrants (similar to options).

Mr Baring is chairman of First Africa, a corporate finance boutique part-owned by Swiss bank UBS, as well as the Oppenheimer and Hambro families.
First Africa hopes to raise a $50 million (€39 million) fund to back African mining projects.
Mr Baring joined the African Gold board, along with John Anderson and Hank Slack, also associated with the new investors, who wish to use African Gold for a number of projects they have in mind. The directors are generally highly regarded."
Here is what the Zimbabweans claim to think:

Zimbabwe accuses West of cholera 'biological warfare' - http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2008/1213/breaking7.html

- Mugabe minister accuses Botswana (Worlds largest diamond producer)of MDC coup plot http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/world/2008/1216/1229035766461.html

Diogenes · 16-12-2008 2:31pm

Sofa_King Good wrote: »

Well it might have something to do with the fact that ..." after president Robert Mugabe earlier this year (2006) announced government plans to change mining laws and take a 51 per cent stake in mining operations.Zimbabwe also mines tin, chrome, copper, iron and coal. It has southern Africa's largest deposits of high quality coal in the western Hwange district."

Irish Times

So it is one of the few African countries yet to be carved up by international bankers.

Oh Christ Robert Mugabe is a hero standing up the West Nonsense?

As mentioned previously Mugabe is heavily involved and supported by both China and South Africa have extensive involvement with the regime.

Zimbabwe accuses West of cholera 'biological warfare' - http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2008/1213/breaking7.html

Yes because the complete break down of any form of public investment, the collapse of the hospital system
have absolutely nothing to do with it.

- Mugabe minister accuses Botswana (Worlds largest diamond producer)of MDC coup plot http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/world/2008/1216/1229035766461.html

[/quote]

Dictator clinging to last vestiges of power blames everyone else shock horror.

A friend of mine's wife is Zimbabwian, they try and get back once or twice a year, with a collection of clothes for distribution, blaming "Western Banks" for this is just utter crap.

starn · 16-12-2008 2:38pm

WTF Sofa King do you actually belive the sh1te Mugabee is spewing ???

Sofa_King Good · 16-12-2008 3:20pm

starn wrote: »

WTF Sofa King do you actually belive the sh1te Mugabee is spewing ???

Nope, I think he is a tyrant dictator. But that is not to say CIA sponsored regime change should be disregarded as a possibility.

starn · 16-12-2008 3:21pm

Sofa_King Good wrote: »

Nope, I think he is a tyrant dictator. But that is not to say CIA sponsored regime change should be disregarded as a possibility.

Well the CIA would want to hurry the funk up, wouldnt they

Sofa_King Good · 16-12-2008 3:29pm

Diogenes >>> He is no hero of mine. For me its just a modern-day scramble for Africa and her mineral wealth. Unfortunately Mugabe has held out and fought for his piece of the pie, much to the detriment of the people. Regardless the country will be exploited either way. Seems the international bankers will be lining their pockets off the backs of the Zimbabwean people in time.

Sofa_King Good · 16-12-2008 3:44pm

"Yes because the complete break down of any form of public investment, the collapse of the hospital systemhave absolutely nothing to do with it. "

and the economic sanctions had nothing to do with this?

meglome · 16-12-2008 9:53pm

Sofa_King Good wrote: »

"Yes because the complete break down of any form of public investment, the collapse of the hospital systemhave absolutely nothing to do with it. "

and the economic sanctions had nothing to do with this?

Nor, I'd imagine, giving land to people who know nothing about farming. Countries don't need food do they?

Sofa_King Good · 16-12-2008 10:51pm

meglome wrote: »

Nor, I'd imagine, giving land to people who know nothing about farming. Countries don't need food do they?

Yeah your right, here was one of the innocent victims - http://www.forbes.com/finance/lists/10/2004/LIR.jhtml?passListId=10&passYear=2004&passListType=Person&uniqueId=2MY9&datatype=Person who had a farm the size of Belgium in Zimbabwe.

And by "people" I can only assume you mean the indigenous population, who I might add had survived from long before Cecil Rhodes, The Rothschilds and the Oppenheimers ever arrived with their metal detectors. The people who you refer too as knowing about farming i.e white settlers made up between 1% and 2% of the population.

And one more thing. It was mentioned that backing by China and S.Africa as a criticism. Why ? Surely any counterbalance to anglo/american dominance is a good thing?

amacachi · 16-12-2008 10:56pm

Well if one of the dispossessed landlords was loaded then they must all be rich scumbags:rolleyes:

Sofa_King Good · 16-12-2008 11:15pm

amacachi wrote: »

Well if one of the dispossessed landlords was loaded then they must all be rich scumbags:rolleyes:

Relative to the native population yes. Besides, Rhodesia/ Zimbabwe never accepted the Universal freedom afforded to the African colonies in the 60's and declared itself a republic. I do not condone any of the violence that was used but it is no so long in our history that the land war took place.

meglome · 17-12-2008 1:35am

Sofa_King Good wrote: »

Yeah your right, here was one of the innocent victims - http://www.forbes.com/finance/lists/10/2004/LIR.jhtml?passListId=10&passYear=2004&passListType=Person&uniqueId=2MY9&datatype=Person who had a farm the size of Belgium in Zimbabwe.

And by "people" I can only assume you mean the indigenous population, who I might add had survived from long before Cecil Rhodes, The Rothschilds and the Oppenheimers ever arrived with their metal detectors. The people who you refer too as knowing about farming i.e white settlers made up between 1% and 2% of the population.

And one more thing. It was mentioned that backing by China and S.Africa as a criticism. Why ? Surely any counterbalance to anglo/american dominance is a good thing?

Strangely enough coming from a country where little of the land was owned for a long time by the native people I have no issue with land reform whatsoever, in fact i agree fully with it. But taking land off farmers and giving it to former soldiers who know sweet fa about farming is a recipe for disaster. And shock horror it was a disaster. The country went from being a big exporter of surplus food to the people starving. If I believed that land reform in Zimbabwe was anything but state sponsored robbery I'd support it.

starn · 17-12-2008 2:48am

So CT are you going to enlighten us with your views on Zimbabwe, and if not why did you bother starting this thread.

Mahatma coat · 17-12-2008 9:45am

Test Post

I have tried to write a post twice and they have disapeared twice

Sofa_King Good · 17-12-2008 12:15pm

meglome wrote: »

Strangely enough coming from a country where little of the land was owned for a long time by the native people I have no issue with land reform whatsoever, in fact i agree fully with it. But taking land off farmers and giving it to former soldiers who know sweet fa about farming is a recipe for disaster. And shock horror it was a disaster. The country went from being a big exporter of surplus food to the people starving. If I believed that land reform in Zimbabwe was anything but state sponsored robbery I'd support it.

Is what your saying is that your land reform should only be an entitlement of the worthy?

Who was profiting from the exports? and how would you justify it?

And I ask again do you think the economic sanction have nothing to do with the problems facing Zimbabwe and its people?

meglome · 17-12-2008 1:58pm

Sofa_King Good wrote: »

Is what your saying is that your land reform should only be an entitlement of the worthy?

I can't even begin to figure out where you got that from. I'll say it again I fully agree with land reform but what happened in Zimbabwe wasn't land reform.

Sofa_King Good wrote: »

Who was profiting from the exports? and how would you justify it?

Well I would imagine the farmers and the country. Neither of whom are now profiting.

Sofa_King Good wrote: »

And I ask again do you think the economic sanction have nothing to do with the problems facing Zimbabwe and its people?

Well for the most part the problems are not caused by sanctions. There's no food because the whole farming system was destroyed. The disastrous policies of the government have lead to hyperinflation meaning they can't afford to import many goods. And yet they still seem to be able to afford to buy weapons to oppress their own people. The country is a clusterfúck and only getting rid of Mugabe and his cronies is likely to fix it. Strangely many Zimbabweans support the sanctions.

Sofa_King Good · 17-12-2008 2:21pm

To be honest I don't think our points of view are all that different. Mugabe is a disgraceful despot who the world, and in particular the Zimbabwean people would be better off without.

Mugabe is a violent dictator. But the US as the worlds police get to decide who are the good/evil dictators of the world, depending on how it fits into their policies. Zimbabwe suffers for her vast mineral wealth, and the emergence of China as a global superpower and as a genuine rival to the US as has hastened it's demise unfortunately. China has an endless demand for the commodities that Zimbabwe can provide. So regime change is the mo of the UK/US as well as the Rotschild family front in the region the Oppenheimers.

tallaght01 · 17-12-2008 4:12pm

There's balls-all of a conspiracy about all this.

There's loads of crazy stuff going on in Africa.

Dharfur, the congo, somalia etc.

No-one intervenes unless they really have to (eg Sierra Leon). There are various reasons why African and western nations don't intervene. They haven't the stomach for a war, they have vested political interests etc.

It's not a secret, it's not a conspiracy.

It's just a fcuckin disgrace.

pgroarke · 17-12-2008 9:54pm

As any African will tell you the way to catch a baboon is to cut a 1.5 in hole in a large pumpkin and leave it near a watering hole.
The baboon will stick its hand in to the pumpkin and grab as many pips as he can.
Being greedy and not knowing any better the baboon refuses to let the pips go and is therefore unable to retrieve its fist.

meathstevie · 17-12-2008 10:10pm

pgroarke wrote: »

As any African will tell you the way to catch a baboon is to cut a 1.5 in hole in a large pumpkin and leave it near a watering hole.
The baboon will stick its hand in to the pumpkin and grab as many pips as he can.
Being greedy and not knowing any better the baboon refuses to let the pips go and is therefore unable to retrieve its fist.

And on top of that he is your typical so called socialist Soviet trained ( Stalinist ) Third World dictator. I'm nearly sure he never saw a Selous Scout in real life during the bush war but was an ace at purging the real fighters and brains who fought the Rhodesian Army. And than for the real unfortunate part of the story...he's survived way past the usual life span for a dictator. For flip's sake, if you offered most Zimbabweans the possible resurrection of Cecil Rhodes they'd jump on your offer...

thecommander · 17-12-2008 10:32pm

pgroarke wrote: »

As any African will tell you the way to catch a baboon is to cut a 1.5 in hole in a large pumpkin and leave it near a watering hole.
The baboon will stick its hand in to the pumpkin and grab as many pips as he can.
Being greedy and not knowing any better the baboon refuses to let the pips go and is therefore unable to retrieve its fist.

Good old Aesop's fables

Ludo · 19-12-2008 11:04am

No conspiracy really...just an a**hole of a dictator.

Does the OP think there is something else going on that we are not aware of?

starn · 19-12-2008 2:26pm

Mahatma coat wrote: »

I have some theories of my own but I'[ll let others post first.

Actually I might see about puttin one of them time delay thingys on my next post and see if anyone else comes up with the same theory

So are you going to tell us or what

ilkhanid · 06-09-2019 1:22pm

Sofa_King Good wrote: »

Relative to the native population yes. Besides, Rhodesia/ Zimbabwe never accepted the Universal freedom afforded to the African colonies in the 60's and declared itself a republic. I do not condone any of the violence that was used but it is no so long in our history that the land war took place.

If I recall correctly, the main difference was that the landed estates were divided up among small farmers (as indeed, was the case in most of these situations:France in 1790, the USSR-initially!-and others). In Ireland the confiscated land wasn't handed over to cronies of Michael Davitt and Charles Stuart Parnell ( or Old IRA men, pals of Cosgrave or De Valera). The land was well-tended and became productive, not let run down to rack and ruin.

Sofa_King Good wrote: »

Is what your saying is that your land reform should only be an entitlement of the worthy?

Well...yes! The land should have gone to those who 1:needed it, the landless and rural poor, and 2: those with the will and ability to make use of it and work it. The "unworthy" , those whose only entitlement to the land was the fact that they were friends of the powerful should never have been let next nor near it.

Sonics2k · 14-09-2019 3:16pm

Dude. This thread is 11 years old.

Zimbabwe

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