Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all,
Vanilla are planning an update to the site on April 24th (next Wednesday). It is a major PHP8 update which is expected to boost performance across the site. The site will be down from 7pm and it is expected to take about an hour to complete. We appreciate your patience during the update.
Thanks all.

Greenways [greenway map of Ireland in post 1]

Options
17071737576120

Comments

  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    serfboard wrote: »
    The N67 north of Kinvara is actually currently being upgraded - I was held up at traffic lights for the work there before Christmas.

    Would that be the new paths going to the castle or something else?


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,344 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    3km or road realignment between the two villages. Includes a cycleway/footpath along the route too.

    More info on the contractors website: http://www.fox-contracts.com/portfolio/n67-ballinderreen-to-kinvara-road-realignment/


  • Registered Users Posts: 978 ✭✭✭riddlinrussell


    Grassey wrote: »

    Just thought I'd highlight that there has been a fair bit of stink regarding the WRC report, from what I've seen some absolutely appalling errors in it and a narrow focus on purely the economics of the railway itself which was apparently not the brief they were given?

    Article outlining some of the issues
    https://fleet.ie/ey-report-on-the-reopening-of-the-western-rail-corridor-flawed-gold-plated-westontrack/


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,647 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Just thought I'd highlight that there has been a fair bit of stink regarding the WRC report, from what I've seen some absolutely appalling errors in it and a narrow focus on purely the economics of the railway itself which was apparently not the brief they were given?

    Article outlining some of the issues
    https://fleet.ie/ey-report-on-the-reopening-of-the-western-rail-corridor-flawed-gold-plated-westontrack/

    That "article" is based entirely on a press release from an organisation who's purpose to exist is basically melting away due to that report. It is not a fair assessment of the content of the report and is full of schoolboy maths and errors

    * Trying to force cost comparisons to WRC Phase 1 - reinstatement of track on a better quality, much more recently closed alignment and which was done without a Railway Order - and then blaming a minor increase in line speed for an increase in construction costs; when there has been rampant construction inflation.
    * Trying to claim end to end journey time estimates are wrong by comparing purely to line speed, rather forgetting there is a concept of a train station at which trains need to stop.
    * Attempt to re-base ticket revenue calculations by swapping out a calculated average figure (taking in to account FTP, season tickets, etc) for single fares

    Coupled with a huge amount of pointless nit-picking to make the list look longer and a lot of vain hope for freight demand to appear from nowhere / justify reopening by diverting freight flows from other tracks.

    You might scrape a C in first year for a review like that, if only because it shows you read the report end to end; albeit you didn't understand it very well.

    Most importantly, it doesn't identify anything that would refute the outcome.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Just thought I'd highlight that there has been a fair bit of stink regarding the WRC report, from what I've seen some absolutely appalling errors in it and a narrow focus on purely the economics of the railway itself which was apparently not the brief they were given?

    Article outlining some of the issues
    https://fleet.ie/ey-report-on-the-reopening-of-the-western-rail-corridor-flawed-gold-plated-westontrack/

    I really wouldn't be looking to WOT for detailed analysis of anything, they are notorious for fudging the numbers to suit their narrative.

    Given the last 3 reports on the WRC have rubbished the idea of extending it, I think its safe to say it's never going to be extended.

    Don't forget, WOT were over the moon when Canney managed to get this report into the PFG during the last govt, but they cried foul when it didn't give them what they wanted and are now taking the Trumpian approach of saying its wrong because it doesn't match their desires.

    Lest we forget their projections for phase 1, 500k users by year 5, 76 mil to build.

    Actual numbers are barely half that unless you count Oranmore users (yes users on a different line). The finished cost was nearly 40% over their projections at 106 million.

    The figures in the EY report are based on bringing the line up to modern standards and all that this entails. The WOT numbers do not.

    The data, methodology and sources are all very detailed and clear in the EY report whereas WOT seem to pluck figures from the air and say its gospel.

    Sure, there are a few minors errors in the EY report, however even correcting those does not change the outcome of the report in any way shape or form.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 978 ✭✭✭riddlinrussell


    Fair enough!

    As I say, just highlighting that there has been a bit of grumbling on it, and definitely seem to have been some schoolboy errors in the document (Not that they sway the actual argument but getting basic facts wrong does allow others to question credibility of all your information).

    I really hate that rail and greenway supporters are so often at loggerheads, I think in most cases the greenway should have the right of it in terms of taking on the old alignments, but I think IE could show a bit of sense when it comes to built up areas and reserve their old linkages into the running network for potential new build lines.

    As has been stated on here before, those who get misty eyed for an old mothballed line would be best served campaigning to make the core network more viable first, if every major line in Ireland was dual track, and the junctions were all upgraded to a modern and efficient configuration, I think the case for a number of the currently sidelined or mothballed lines would become far, far stronger. Unfortunately none of those causes are as 'emotive' I suppose...


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,344 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21




  • Registered Users Posts: 212 ✭✭ShaneC1600


    L1011 wrote: »
    That "article" is based entirely on a press release from an organisation who's purpose to exist is basically melting away due to that report. It is not a fair assessment of the content of the report and is full of schoolboy maths and errors

    * Trying to force cost comparisons to WRC Phase 1 - reinstatement of track on a better quality, much more recently closed alignment and which was done without a Railway Order - and then blaming a minor increase in line speed for an increase in construction costs; when there has been rampant construction inflation.
    * Trying to claim end to end journey time estimates are wrong by comparing purely to line speed, rather forgetting there is a concept of a train station at which trains need to stop.
    * Attempt to re-base ticket revenue calculations by swapping out a calculated average figure (taking in to account FTP, season tickets, etc) for single fares

    Coupled with a huge amount of pointless nit-picking to make the list look longer and a lot of vain hope for freight demand to appear from nowhere / justify reopening by diverting freight flows from other tracks.

    You might scrape a C in first year for a review like that, if only because it shows you read the report end to end; albeit you didn't understand it very well.

    Most importantly, it doesn't identify anything that would refute the outcome.

    Where are the schoolboy maths errors because I see much more in the original document?

    Having read the original report and WOT reviews I think there is much credence in some of what they state. Obviously there is some issues that would make no difference to the overall outcome but then maybe they did that to show just how many errors was in the original report. Using Tuams population as 1100 odd is an unacceptable error if it was used in the data modelling.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,393 ✭✭✭Grassey


    Tender gone up:

    141332208_3774475642575398_7510902792220219489_o.jpg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=2&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=abNjBBQKbMAAX-K41z3&_nc_ht=scontent-dub4-1.xx&oh=e9a0442146e1ea45c602f956027d989c&oe=602F5317


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Link to the tender but no documents on it. They are supplied "upon expression of interest"

    https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicPurchase/181458/0/0?returnUrl=ctm/Supplier/publictenders&b=ETENDERS_SIMPLE


  • Advertisement
  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    This is great to see.

    One reason I am particularly happy is actions such as this ensure that regardless of what party goes into the next or future govts, the ground work will have been laid for the continued development of cycling infrastructure.

    Now....if they could just get a move on with making protected junctions and lanes the norm and feck the paint tins into the bin where they belong
    FUNDING FOR 248 NEW JOBS TO SUPPORT “1,000 KILOMETRES OF WALKING AND CYCLING INFRASTRUCTURE BY 2025”

    A promise to support up to 248 new jobs focused on walking and cycling infrastructure and promotion was announced by the Department of Transport.

    The announcement was made by Minister for Transport Eamon Ryan and Minister of State for Roads Hildegarde Naughton. The Department of Transport said that it is expected that up to 218 staff could ultimately be assigned to the new active travel teams across all local authorities with a further 30 additional staff available through the Regional Design Offices.

    The announcement differs from the approach in the UK where a departmental order was issued by the UK Department of Transport to follow improved design guidance ahead of new funding.

    The National Transport Authority in Ireland has started a review of the National Cycle Manual, but this comes after long delays in that process and the orignal drafting of the manual also subject to delay. National Transport Authority has also been reluctant to accept Dutch designs for infrastructure elements such as protected junctions and bicycle priority roundabouts.

    The Department of Transport said that the Programme for Government has already committed that €1.8bn, or around €1 million a day, will be spent on walking and cycling over the lifetime of the Government. It is unclear at this point how much of the funding will be spent on the 248 new jobs.

    A press release issued under embargo for midnight said that Minister Ryan has requested that councils “ensure that as part of the development of these teams that each will include an Active Travel Officer dedicated to behavioural change and promotional activity”.

    Minister Ryan said: “Developing high quality walking and cycling facilities will encourage more people to switch to active travel and will contribute to tackling climate change. Really good design is what is needed to connect communities and make walking and cycling attractive, safe and accessible to everyone.”

    He added: “I am delighted to confirm that we will fund dedicated resources in all local authorities to deliver on the commitments in the Programme for Government. This is a game-changer in terms of delivering high-quality infrastructure across the country in both rural and urban areas.”

    Minister of State Naughton said: “Today’s announcement, underpinned by our commitment to spend almost €1 million per day on walking and cycling, focuses on resourcing the shift towards more sustainable modes of transport. Local authorities are at the heart of what we want to achieve and we need to ensure they have the right level of resources available to deliver this in every city, town and village across the country.

    Story continues here


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,531 ✭✭✭veryangryman


    Still don't get the Athlone Greenway plan. They still need to extend to the bridge from White Gates (Ballymahon Road) terminal point but nothing happening there in almost a year. Even with Covid this seems a worry.

    One idea in my head is that theyll do this part bundled in with the bridge


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Still don't get the Athlone Greenway plan. They still need to extend to the bridge from White Gates (Ballymahon Road) terminal point but nothing happening there in almost a year. Even with Covid this seems a worry.

    One idea in my head is that theyll do this part bundled in with the bridge

    That's part of a phase all on its own. It's due to be opened by 2022 I think. If I recall correctly they are due to go out for tender on construction shortly or its already happened, can't quite recall


  • Registered Users Posts: 978 ✭✭✭riddlinrussell


    Second Public Consultation on Galway to Athlone Cycleway - Preferred Routes is now up and running

    Interactive Consultation

    There is a nice Interactive Map on the wall opposite where it opens up


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,247 ✭✭✭Greaney


    Fair enough!

    As I say, just highlighting that there has been a bit of grumbling on it, and definitely seem to have been some schoolboy errors in the document (Not that they sway the actual argument but getting basic facts wrong does allow others to question credibility of all your information).

    I really hate that rail and greenway supporters are so often at loggerheads, I think in most cases the greenway should have the right of it in terms of taking on the old alignments, but I think IE could show a bit of sense when it comes to built up areas and reserve their old linkages into the running network for potential new build lines.

    As has been stated on here before, those who get misty eyed for an old mothballed line would be best served campaigning to make the core network more viable first, if every major line in Ireland was dual track, and the junctions were all upgraded to a modern and efficient configuration, I think the case for a number of the currently sidelined or mothballed lines would become far, far stronger. Unfortunately none of those causes are as 'emotive' I suppose...

    I've read some of the report. Some of the mistakes are pretty obvious. The figures are all over the place. Some don't add up at all. There's a suspicious line on one of the tables. It looks like it's left in there, that has very positive figures, so that has me stummped

    My conclusion is the Math wasn't peer reviewed by Jaspers, just the conclusion was commented on by them.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    WRT to the recent objections by Peter Sweetman against the Kerry greenway, here is a profile piece of him published today by the Examiner.

    It makes for interesting reading and should clarify, for a lot of folks, that he is not necessarily the boogeyman he is made out to be.
    The woodturner who is a splinter in the thumbs of the planners

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/spotlight/arid-40212290.html

    Peter Sweetman, accustomed to anger in the face of his objections, has received bullets in the post three times. He says: “I like them because once I have them it means they can’t be used to shoot me.” Michael Clifford reports

    Peter Sweetman had a busy few days earlier this month. He initiated two High Court actions and received a ruling in another in the space of a week. These are among the estimated 20 or so actions with his name on them currently being processed by the court.

    Sweetman is the country’s foremost litigator in objecting to major development or infrastructure projects. The term “serial litigator” is often used to refer to cranks.

    Sweetman is no crank, or at least not one without the substance to back up any crankiness or contrarian instincts.

    The 78-year-old former woodturner has a long record of success in the actions he brings, including three at the European Court of Justice in the last decade.

    He is also referred to as an environmentalist. All of his actions relate to planning of one sort or another. In most cases, his objections are rooted in planning processes for developments in which most environmentalists would share his concerns.

    However, the two actions he launched earlier this month would challenge this categorisation. One was against the planning permission for a greenway destined to run along an old railway line in South Kerry.

    The project has suffered numerous delays, mainly from a small group of landowners along the 32km route. The greenway is regarded as an economic and community saviour for the fast depopulating Iveragh peninsula. Approval was finally given by An Bord Pleanála in November.

    Then, on the deadline day for appeals, Sweetman and a landowner, James Clifford, lodged their High Court action.

    One of the main grounds for the objection was that there was a “failure to take the requisite measures to establish a system of strict protection for the Kerry slug and Lesser Horseshoe Bat in their natural range”.

    Another group of landowners is taking a simultaneous action challenging the use of a compulsory purchase order for the greenway.

    But it is Sweetman’s objection that has given rise to particular ire. He does not live in the area – he is based in Mayo and is from Kildare – yet EU law permits his objection as a concerned citizen.

    He says he was told of abusive posts on Facebook and that he received a number of calls which he didn’t answer but he assumed were abusive.

    “I always WhatsApp when I get a call from an unidentified number and ask 'who is this?' and none of those got back to me so I presume they weren’t being friendly.”

    He is accustomed to some anger in the face of his objections. “Over the years I’ve received bullets in the post three times,” he says. “I like them because once I have them it means they can’t be used to shoot me.”

    The other new objection he has launched this month is against a planned offshore windfarm near Arklow in Co. Wicklow.

    In recent decades, as wind has been promoted as a prime source of renewable energy, the optimum solution discussed in the face of objections from various communities, has been offshore windfarms.

    So when a proposal for a major farm comes along, it might be assumed that environmentalists would welcome it. Not Peter Sweetman. When he believes that something is not complying with the law, he acts.

    “I don’t go looking for these projects, these days they are brought to me,” he says. “I could take on 10 times what I’m doing.

    The way I see it, I’m an old fashioned Fine Gaeler. I believe in compliance with the law, which I don’t think Fine Gael does at the moment.
    While he might appear an unlikely Fine Gaeler, he is in fact blue-blooded in political terms. His father Gerard served as Minister for Finance in the Inter-party coalition between 1954 and 1957. Peter’s granduncle Roger was a member of the first Dáil and an early advocate for a peaceful resolution to the Civil War.

    Peter was educated in Glenstal Abbey, one of the most expensive fee paying schools in the country. He says that by the time he completed his second level education he couldn’t read, having suffered from undiagnosed dyslexia.

    He studied photography in London. “I was very interested in trees,” he says. “My portfolio that got me into Regent Street (technical college) was on the trees in Hyde Park, and my passing out portfolio was on foxes in Highgate cemetery. That place was full of foxes at the time, sitting on Karl Marx’s tomb and all.”

    A career photographing show jumping events beckoned, but then at 26 he was involved in a serious car accident that necessitated nearly a year in hospital.

    “I was in the Mater flat on my back and the psychiatrist in there had just come back from the US where he’d studied about dyslexia, which wasn’t widely known at the time. He actually taught me how to read.”

    He spent a brief period working as a lumber jack – ironically, one of his major cases in recent years involved halting the felling of trees – and moved from that onto woodturning.

    “I was quite good at it,” he says. “The other day Micheál Martin was being interviewed in the cabinet room on TV and one of my works was there in the background. Charlie Haughey bought it off me.”

    Mary Robinson also appreciated his work. “She gave one of my pieces to Nelson Mandela. I believe it’s in Mandela’s widow’s home now in Mozambique.”

    The world of planning opened up for him in the early nineties under the most mundane circumstances.

    “It was a NIMBY thing,” he says. “This fella wanted to build a piggery next to lands in Naas that had been in my family for years.

    Pig factories. Who wants that? Pigs go in and sausages and **** comes out.
    He researched planning law and challenged it. In the end the pigs stayed at home. He went after more pigs a little later when he became involved in a campaign to restrict piggeries around Lough Sheelan in Co Cavan. (One kindred spirit he had in that campaign was Michael McCabe, father of the well-known former garda Maurice).

    Since his initial foray into the world of planning he has been a constant thorn in the side of public planning bodies and developers. With his long, grey hair swept back and a preference for jumpers and cardigans he could be mistaken for a refugee from a 70s rock band in the company of the suits that people wear at planning hearings and court cases.

    In 1994, he toyed with the idea of standing for the Green party.

    “This was when the Greens were an environmental party,” he says. He claims to have been in the reckoning for a party nomination in Leinster at the time.

    “I went off to do a project in Africa in the course of the campaign for the nomination and when I came back everybody who was going to vote for me voted instead for the other person (Nuala Ahern). So I stood on my own bat in that election as an independent. I didn’t do any campaigning.”

    He received 3,228 votes, or 1.2% of the valid electorate. Ahern was elected to one of the four MEP seats.

    Afterwards, Sweetman claims that he wanted to join his local Green organisation but HQ objected on the basis that he had stood against the party candidate. Since then he has been largely apolitical.

    In the 2000s he became involved in the Shell To Sea campaign in north county Mayo, a campaign that was to change his life in that he ended up moving to the county.

    What prompted him to do that? “What do you expect it to have been? A woman of course.” He is also the father of an adult son and daughter.

    Unlike the vast majority of serial litigators, he has no trouble in finding solicitors and barristers to represent him.

    That is down to his reputation for winning, and consequently his lawyers getting their fees paid by the other side.

    When he loses, he is not pursued for costs as legally he is a man of straw. In those instances, his lawyers have to go hungry but the public body or developer is still obliged to pay their own legal counsel.

    Irrespective of outcomes of previous cases, Sweetman is entitled to object as often as he wants under the Aarhus Convention.

    The EU agreement in its access to judgment principle sets out the “right to review procedures to challenge public decisions that have been made without respecting…environmental law in general".

    One person in the legal world who has encountered him says that he is taken extremely seriously. “I’ve seen him at conferences where he would have had respectful exchanges with people like Frank Clarke (the chief justice).

    He certainly knowns what he is about.
    A contrary view is offered by a source who has had experience of a Sweetman case. “While the principle of the Aarhus convention has merit, you have to wonder is this what they envisaged when it was drafted. Has the bar been set too high?” this source asks.

    “Peter Sweetman is a shrewd operator and very knowledgeable but in all the decisions and proposals that he is managing to stall or overturn, is the public interest being served? Does the benefit to the environment that he advocates, often pretty minor, really outweigh the public interest in getting some of these proposals built for the overall good.

    “There is also the cost in public money for all of these cases. In many instances I simply don’t think the public interest is being served. If you don’t want any public development done, Peter Sweetman is your only man.”

    The man himself counters this with simple logic.

    “How can complying with the law be anti the public interest? Public servants are not the final arbitrators of the law, the courts are. If what they have done is not against the law then I don’t win.”

    He also points out that his legal position as a man of straw is entirely protected by the Aarhus convention.

    Last week his latest case came up with an application for a judicial review of an An Bord Pleanála decision to grant permission for a development of two blocks of apartments in Mallow.

    The court sat using a remote hearing, allowing the applicant to tune in from his home in Mayo. Judge Garret Simons in delivering his ruling remarked that Mr Sweetman was a well-known environmentalist in relation to challenging the law.

    The application was granted. On the same day, he had another victory with a High Court ruling in his favour over the extraction of water from Lough Corrib.

    Despite the creeping advance of senior years, he has no intention of pulling back from the application of vigilance of how the State is planned and built.

    “After the car accident in my twenties I was told that I wouldn’t be walking by my fifties,” he says. “And here I am still managing to walk, still going at my age. No reason to stop now.”
    A taste of Sweetman

    Trees and more trees

    One industry that Peter Sweetman has had a major impact on in recent years is forestry, which is ironic in light of his own trade as a woodturner. Forestry is a €2bn industry, rivalling the beef sector in agriculture.

    There is a shortage of timber in the country as a result of appeals against tree felling and tree planting in the last two years in particular.

    Most of these appeals are based on infringement of EU directives on biodiversity.

    For instance, between the beginning of 2018 and the middle of last year, Sweetman was responsible for 351 appeals out of a total of 624.

    In September, the government brought in legislation to strengthen the law and take account of the EU directive but problems still persist in the area.

    “It’s unreal how wrong we got forestry,” Sweetman says. “We don’t have forests we have plantations in this country."

    There is no environmental gain from them even in relation to climate. They can dispute that but the science says it’s true.
    There is mixed opinion in the industry about culpability for the clogging up of the appeal system with some blaming the department for not getting its act together and others hitting out at the number of appeals which some claim are being lodged on a blanket basis.

    No way through

    In 2013, the European Court of Justice ruled that the Galway by-pass should not proceed as designed as there was a risk that it would bring about “the disappearance or the partial and irreparable destruction of a protected site”.

    This ruling was based on the EU habitat directive and the court was requested to consider it by the Irish Supreme Court.

    Environmentalists were very happy with the ruling that came from Sweetman’s persistence. An Taisce, the heritage group, described it as “a huge leap forward for nature conservation, not only in Ireland but across the EU".

    The result was a delay in the by-pass for the city which has not yet been fully completed.

    Don’t build the wall

    Last March An Bord Pleanála refused planning permission for a coastal protection wall proposed by the Trump organisation for its hotel and golf club at Doonbeg, Co Clare.

    The ruling overturned permission given by the county council. Sweetman along with environmental organisations had objected to the wall on the basis that they were not satisfied there was sufficient protection for the integrity of a nearby Special Area of Conservation.

    Trump’s organisation had claimed doing nothing was not an option and if permission was not granted it might bring the viability of the whole enterprise into question.

    Substitute consent

    Last July, Sweetman had a major victory in the Supreme Court when a ruling declared that the concept of substitute consent was not compatible with EU law.

    Substitute consent is a form of retention planning permission for infrastructure projects. Typically, it would be a route to go down for a developer if it was found that the project did not include an Environmental Impact Statement when first built.

    A number of wind farms that were found to have been built contrary to planning permission have, in recent years, applied for substitute consent. By and large, it is always granted.

    The Supreme Court found that it was not compatible with the law because there was no provision for the public to make submissions at that stage of the process and because there was no provision for a test of “exceptionality” to determine why a particular project should be included in the process.

    This will make it more difficult for projects to retrospectively apply to retain planning permission if it is not built according to proper planning in the first instant.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,956 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    I dunno, when you put it that way, Sweetman seems kinda reasonable. Maybe you need people like that to actually make the government comply with the law.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,802 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    spacetweek wrote: »
    I dunno, when you put it that way, Sweetman seems kinda reasonable. Maybe you need people like that to actually make the government comply with the law.

    Agreed - he's definitely not a crank.
    And the basis for most of his cases is adherence to our own laws (and EU laws) - however some objections have more merit than others I feel - like objections against windfarms (which do massive environmental damage as we see even today), but a greenway?


  • Registered Users Posts: 978 ✭✭✭riddlinrussell


    timmyntc wrote: »
    Agreed - he's definitely not a crank.
    And the basis for most of his cases is adherence to our own laws (and EU laws) - however some objections have more merit than others I feel - like objections against windfarms (which do massive environmental damage as we see even today), but a greenway?

    Article came out today directly related to this.

    https://www.independent.ie/news/environment/judge-says-state-showed-astonishing-reluctance-on-environmental-law-40016163.html


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,704 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    https://www.limerick.ie/council/newsroom/news/limerick-greenway-set-launch-summer-2021
    “Once completed this year, the upgraded greenway will be an important new tourism product for both Limerick and the wider region. As part of the increased marketing of the greenway, we are transitioning the name from the current 'Great Southern Greenway' to the 'Limerick Greenway'.

    He added: “Kerry County Council have indicated that their section of the Greenway will be named either the Kerry or North Kerry Greenway and both Councils have committed to engaging in joint marketing and promotion of the route in partnership with Fáilte Ireland.”

    Personally I think it is pretty stupid having two separate names for what should be considered one high quality, long distance greenway. Smacks of parochialism to me. If they develop another greenway in Limerick, what will they call that?


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 978 ✭✭✭riddlinrussell


    Pete_Cavan wrote: »
    https://www.limerick.ie/council/newsroom/news/limerick-greenway-set-launch-summer-2021



    Personally I think it is pretty stupid having two separate names for what should be considered one high quality, long distance greenway. Smacks of parochialism to me. If they develop another greenway in Limerick, what will they call that?

    It's also a bit of a slap in the face of the Great Southern Trail Group that worked on developing it from the late 80's with no support from the council.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,811 ✭✭✭Tigerandahalf


    It's also a bit of a slap in the face of the Great Southern Trail Group that worked on developing it from the late 80's with no support from the council.

    It is. Personally I love the name Great Southern Trail. It immediately gets people thinking of its source and the history of the train line.

    Given that this line could eventually run to Tralee, keeping the old name makes sense. People especially outside tourists would be attracted by a long distance cycle.

    Instead there will be 2 or 3 different names that will confuse.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Del.Monte


    It is. Personally I love the name Great Southern Trail. It immediately gets people thinking of its source and the history of the train line.

    Given that this line could eventually run to Tralee, keeping the old name makes sense. People especially outside tourists would be attracted by a long distance cycle.

    Instead there will be 2 or 3 different names that will confuse.


    Surely as the Limerick/Tralee Railway was built by the Waterford & Limerick Railway Company the Great Southern Trail is something of a misnomer?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,016 ✭✭✭blindsider


    Could you imagine if the Wild Atlantic Way had multiple names? Complete disaster!

    Great Southern Trail is a fantastic name, and I'm sure a decent marketeer/brand specialist could do a lot with it.

    2 names = more cost (maybe not double, but still..) and half the brand recognition etc.....madness!


  • Registered Users Posts: 978 ✭✭✭riddlinrussell


    blindsider wrote: »
    Could you imagine if the Wild Atlantic Way had multiple names? Complete disaster!

    Great Southern Trail is a fantastic name, and I'm sure a decent marketeer/brand specialist could do a lot with it.

    2 names = more cost (maybe not double, but still..) and half the brand recognition etc.....madness!

    I've seen at least one article talking about the name change referring to the separate sections as the limerick/north kerry greenways but calling the whole thing the Great Southern Greenway


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,016 ✭✭✭blindsider


    I've seen at least one article talking about the name change referring to the separate sections as the limerick/north kerry greenways but calling the whole thing the Great Southern Greenway

    So, is that 3 names then? :D

    Only joking, but still, if anything it just shows how ridiculous things can become once local interests lose sight of the bigger picture.

    I don't want to drag this informative thread off-topic so I'll go back to lurking :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Del.Monte


    blindsider wrote: »
    Could you imagine if the Wild Atlantic Way had multiple names? Complete disaster!

    Great Southern Trail is a fantastic name, and I'm sure a decent marketeer/brand specialist could do a lot with it.

    2 names = more cost (maybe not double, but still..) and half the brand recognition etc.....madness!


    What exactly is the Wild Atlantic Way apart from a meaningless Bord Failte marketing name for something that already existed i.e. a patchwork of roads in the West of Ireland? I'm happy to be educated in the matter. :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,802 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Del.Monte wrote: »
    What exactly is the Wild Atlantic Way apart from a meaningless Bord Failte marketing name for something that already existed i.e. a patchwork of roads in the West of Ireland? I'm happy to be educated in the matter. :)

    It's just a marketing thing, but its highly effective.
    It would be so much worse had it been "Donegal atlantic way", "Sligo atlantic way", "Kerry atlantic way" etc.

    From that article above it sounds like Limerick coco are trying to go off on their own and market the Limerick greenway rather than getting combined marketing for a greenway spanning across Limerick *and* Kerry.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,742 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    It's also a bit of a slap in the face of the Great Southern Trail Group that worked on developing it from the late 80's with no support from the council.

    Sad to see the GST name disappear for the sake of "morketing". Also sad to see it looking like a new motorway in miniature, growth hacked back to bare earth and nothingness so much for the "green" bit of "greenway".

    What's this "repurposed" bit by media? Has it a new purpose now we are not aware of?


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 15,742 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Del.Monte wrote: »
    What exactly is the Wild Atlantic Way apart from a meaningless Bord Failte marketing name for something that already existed i.e. a patchwork of roads in the West of Ireland? I'm happy to be educated in the matter. :)

    An attempt to make a patchwork of roads sexy for the 'gram.


Advertisement