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What Laptop for Starting Out?

  • 15-06-2020 6:42am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 2,027 ✭✭✭


    My teenage son is looking to explore music production.

    He is looking for a laptop minimum 8GB Ram, I5, SSD (larger the better).

    From my limited reading I believe a PC might be a better option however he will always need a laptop so he can explore with this and if he gets really into it can go the PC route in the future.

    Any suggestions?

    I see in the Laptop forum the Honor MagicBook gets mentioned as a good value laptop.

    I also see this deal on Amazon today (seems to be same spec as above)

    Huawei MateBook D 14 2020 - 14 Inch Laptop with FullView 1080P FHD Ultrabook PC (AMD Ryzen 5 3500U, 8 GB RAM, 256 GB SSD, Windows 10 Home, Multi-Screen Collaboration), Amazon Exclusive, Space Grey https://www.amazon.co...._apa_i_lDX5EbBM2BFFV

    Advice welcome.


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 720 ✭✭✭Timfy


    For music production I strongly suggest a PC over a laptop. Over time your son may need to add many specialised output/input cards as well as possibly midi channels and a pc, larger the case the better, is much better suited than having external boxes daisychained all over the place. Also consider a dual drive system with an SSD for the OS and programs and a large capacity HDD (spinning rust) for data storage, he will be needing tons of storage space!

    No trees were harmed in the posting of this message, however a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,041 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    Can he play the piano, would be a good place to start as it'll help with everything else.

    Any laptop will do, I wouldn't over pay for something with an SSD as you can fit one yourself easily after you buy a laptop and it shouldn't effect your warranty, it's really easy do. There's a 500gb for just over €50 https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01N0TQPQB/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_awdb_YRX5EbAF1C7RZ
    Put the savings into something like this Akai mini 2, comes with a good bit of software to get him started https://www.amazon.co.uk/AKAI-Professional-Performance-ready-4-Way-Thumbstick/dp/B00IJ6QAO2


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,027 ✭✭✭eddiem74


    Timfy wrote: »
    For music production I strongly suggest a PC over a laptop. Over time your son may need to add many specialised output/input cards as well as possibly midi channels and a pc, larger the case the better, is much better suited than having external boxes daisychained all over the place. Also consider a dual drive system with an SSD for the OS and programs and a large capacity HDD (spinning rust) for data storage, he will be needing tons of storage space!

    Thanks I understand a PC is a recommended option but as he is only starting to dabble I did not want to make that investment / learning curve, if a laptop could be a starting point and if his interest fell off it would be something that would still get used versus a PC.

    That was my logic, perhaps incorrectly...:o


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,027 ✭✭✭eddiem74


    Can he play the piano, would be a good place to start as it'll help with everything else.

    Any laptop will do, I wouldn't over pay for something with an SSD as you can fit one yourself easily after you buy a laptop and it shouldn't effect your warranty, it's really easy do. There's a 500gb for just over €50 https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01N0TQPQB/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_awdb_YRX5EbAF1C7RZ
    Put the savings into something like this Akai mini 2, comes with a good bit of software to get him started https://www.amazon.co.uk/AKAI-Professional-Performance-ready-4-Way-Thumbstick/dp/B00IJ6QAO2

    As part of Transition Year in school they done Keyboard and he enjoyed it. His teacher also gave feedback he was good at it and picked it up really well.

    So he has recently purchased a basic keyboard and been learning some stuff via YouTube. In fairness he has been putting in a few hours and learning.

    He has now started asking for a Laptop and wants to then explore what software options he likes via trial and error heading down this music production path I guess.


  • Registered Users Posts: 743 ✭✭✭KeithTS


    A starting point would be to take a look at the minimum system requirements for Cubase or any other DAW.
    Don't op for the minimum, go recommended or higher. As soon as he starts having multiple tracks with plugins it'll grind to a halt with the minimum spec. As many USB ports as you can get would be useful in the future too, a couple of USB 2 and USB 3 ports would be ideal. 1-2 will be taken up with a mouse/keyboard so bear that in mind.

    I would suggest Windows 10, with at least 8GB of RAM, an Intel i5 (not sure which AMD would be equivalent). Graphics cards aren't as important as processor and RAM here so spend the money on the latter unless he wants it for gaming too.

    To get started there is a huge amount he can do with free VSTs and plugins so software doesn't need to cost a fortune, especially for a beginner. Reaper is a good free DAW and if he googles free VSTs there are literally hundreds of free synths, FX, drum samples etc. so he'll be able to learn a lot for free once he has a suitable laptop.

    I assume you plan on him using headphones for listening as you haven't mentioned audio interfaces/monitors. It's out of the scope of your question but if so, please hammer into him the importance of taking breaks and listening at lower levels. If he's using monitors you'll know if he's overdoing the volume, with headphones you won't and things tend to sound better when played loud so hearing damage is very possible so keep an ear/eye on it.


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,358 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    How much are you looking to put in? I recently one from dell (doesn't seem to be listed on their site anymore). It has 15.6inch FullHD screen, i7, 512gb NVME SSD, 8gb ram, 250mx graffics card for 819. I added a 2tb HDD and an extra 8gb of ram.

    I recently got myself a laptop solely because I don't have room to use a desktop. It has it's pitfalls. A laptop will be nosier than a desktop and effective passive cooling won't be common amongst lower priced devices. CPUs are typically clocked lower for this reason and will throttle themselves to slower speeds to prevent over heating.

    They have limited expandability. Which is going to be an issue when he starts putting projects together, getting into sampling or collecting a range of Instruments/Effects. The storage is going to be very limited on most low priced laptops. They sell SSD because it's faster, but its useless for people that need storage first. If getting one with an NVME SSD, try to get the largest size you can, but don't let it hold you back from CPU/RAM. I spent a lot of time reviewing laptops to make sure I could get one, that'll allow me to add storage and ram. Before putting one into a cart, look up video's of people taking the casing off and showing what's inside it and what upgrade options you have. I'd recomend you don't waste your time with a Laptop where you're going to be left with replacing the storage device you got with it, instead of adding another one.

    Screen size will be an issue too and it's placement is not good for using during long periods. But don't expect a large screen to always be better, you also need the resolution to be higher and full HD at a minimum. Most laptops will only have 1 monitor output. So choices of running multiple screens will be impacted.

    Most keyboards on laptops these days aren't really that good either. To reduce the amount of keys on the device, they've doubled up a lot of items through a "Fn" button. the problem with that is, the Laptops functions such as screen brightness tend to have precedence over the F1 -> F12 keys. You'll need to get another keyboard to get full use of shortcuts. And a Mouse will be better to work with than a track pad, for adjusting a lot of different settings.

    While I second concerns with daisy chaining USB devices, it's likely to occur on desktops too. But they tend to sit in the one place and it's easy to tie down the cables. Check out what ports are included. Mine has 3 usb and 1 usb-c. Some software can require a dongle to be in a port to work. So if you've got that, an audio device and an external HDD, a keyboard/mouse you need to be sure they can all connect. Or if a hub is required, can it be powered by the USB or does it need an additional plug.

    While the laptop sounds like a nice pick up and go solution. For the most part, it really isn't.

    ALSO FREE STUFF

    Native Instruments and IK Multimedia have quite good free packages of their software, all you need to do is sign up on their website. SpitFire Audio tend to have a good following and they have a lot of instruments available free through their "Labs" package.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,027 ✭✭✭eddiem74


    KeithTS wrote: »
    A starting point would be to take a look at the minimum system requirements for Cubase or any other DAW.
    Don't op for the minimum, go recommended or higher. As soon as he starts having multiple tracks with plugins it'll grind to a halt with the minimum spec. As many USB ports as you can get would be useful in the future too, a couple of USB 2 and USB 3 ports would be ideal. 1-2 will be taken up with a mouse/keyboard so bear that in mind.

    I would suggest Windows 10, with at least 8GB of RAM, an Intel i5 (not sure which AMD would be equivalent). Graphics cards aren't as important as processor and RAM here so spend the money on the latter unless he wants it for gaming too.

    To get started there is a huge amount he can do with free VSTs and plugins so software doesn't need to cost a fortune, especially for a beginner. Reaper is a good free DAW and if he googles free VSTs there are literally hundreds of free synths, FX, drum samples etc. so he'll be able to learn a lot for free once he has a suitable laptop.

    I assume you plan on him using headphones for listening as you haven't mentioned audio interfaces/monitors. It's out of the scope of your question but if so, please hammer into him the importance of taking breaks and listening at lower levels. If he's using monitors you'll know if he's overdoing the volume, with headphones you won't and things tend to sound better when played loud so hearing damage is very possible so keep an ear/eye on it.
    How much are you looking to put in? I recently one from dell (doesn't seem to be listed on their site anymore). It has 15.6inch FullHD screen, i7, 512gb NVME SSD, 8gb ram, 250mx graffics card for 819. I added a 2tb HDD and an extra 8gb of ram.

    I recently got myself a laptop solely because I don't have room to use a desktop. It has it's pitfalls. A laptop will be nosier than a desktop and effective passive cooling won't be common amongst lower priced devices. CPUs are typically clocked lower for this reason and will throttle themselves to slower speeds to prevent over heating.

    They have limited expandability. Which is going to be an issue when he starts putting projects together, getting into sampling or collecting a range of Instruments/Effects. The storage is going to be very limited on most low priced laptops. They sell SSD because it's faster, but its useless for people that need storage first. If getting one with an NVME SSD, try to get the largest size you can, but don't let it hold you back from CPU/RAM. I spent a lot of time reviewing laptops to make sure I could get one, that'll allow me to add storage and ram. Before putting one into a cart, look up video's of people taking the casing off and showing what's inside it and what upgrade options you have. I'd recomend you don't waste your time with a Laptop where you're going to be left with replacing the storage device you got with it, instead of adding another one.

    Screen size will be an issue too and it's placement is not good for using during long periods. But don't expect a large screen to always be better, you also need the resolution to be higher and full HD at a minimum. Most laptops will only have 1 monitor output. So choices of running multiple screens will be impacted.

    Most keyboards on laptops these days aren't really that good either. To reduce the amount of keys on the device, they've doubled up a lot of items through a "Fn" button. the problem with that is, the Laptops functions such as screen brightness tend to have precedence over the F1 -> F12 keys. You'll need to get another keyboard to get full use of shortcuts. And a Mouse will be better to work with than a track pad, for adjusting a lot of different settings.

    While I second concerns with daisy chaining USB devices, it's likely to occur on desktops too. But they tend to sit in the one place and it's easy to tie down the cables. Check out what ports are included. Mine has 3 usb and 1 usb-c. Some software can require a dongle to be in a port to work. So if you've got that, an audio device and an external HDD, a keyboard/mouse you need to be sure they can all connect. Or if a hub is required, can it be powered by the USB or does it need an additional plug.

    While the laptop sounds like a nice pick up and go solution. For the most part, it really isn't.

    ALSO FREE STUFF

    Native Instruments and IK Multimedia have quite good free packages of their software, all you need to do is sign up on their website. SpitFire Audio tend to have a good following and they have a lot of instruments available free through their "Labs" package.

    Thanks both for your replies.

    I went with the:Huawei MateBook D 14 2020 - 14 Inch Laptop with FullView 1080P FHD Ultrabook PC (AMD Ryzen 5 3500U, 8 GB RAM, 256 GB SSD, Windows 10 Home, Multi-Screen Collaboration), Amazon Exclusive, Space Grey

    He has a set of Sennheiser HD 4.50 Special Edition, Over Ear Wireless Headphone with Active Noise Cancellation that he can hopefully use in the interim. I will make sure he takes breaks.

    On the software he has mentioned some of the items you listed. I also picked him up the Akai mini 2 mentioned above as a starting point which also comes with some software so we will see where it goes.

    I will probably end up directing him over to this forum to start his own questions and advice thread. :)

    If he really does get into it a PC will be the next option.

    Thanks again for all the advice and detailed replies.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,358 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    https://youtu.be/ex9IhI5wn_I

    You arent going to have much options to upgrade storage or ram in it by the looks of things.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,027 ✭✭✭eddiem74


    https://youtu.be/ex9IhI5wn_I

    You arent going to have much options to upgrade storage or ram in it by the looks of things.

    Thanks storage seems an option with SSD upgrade but ram not. Hopefully sufficient to get him started.


  • Registered Users Posts: 743 ✭✭✭KeithTS


    eddiem74 wrote: »
    Thanks storage seems an option with SSD upgrade but ram not. Hopefully sufficient to get him started.

    8GB will be plenty to get him started.

    I doubt he will but if he starts to have trouble one old school trick is to bounce tracks down. If he's running out of memory, take some tracks that have effects etc. running on them that he's happy with, record the output onto a new track and then disable the old one where the FX were running. That saves on memory as it's only running audio without the plugins and things. There are lots of ways to work to save resources, it's good for him to learn those tricks.


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  • Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 743 Mod ✭✭✭✭TroutMask


    I mostly use Apple Mac laptops, find them very easy to use/maintain and capable of running a large number of tracks/plug-ins (circa 150 tracks at 44.1kHz). Refurbished items from the Mac store usually help mitigate the expense.


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