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Should junkies be allowed to have children?

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  • Options
    #32
    Cobalt17
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 135 ✭✭Cobalt17


    corner of hells wrote: »
    Why dont you contact TUSLA yourself or the Gardai if you have a specific concern.

    I have done, I was told there was nothing they could do.


  • Options
    #33
    Urethral Buttercup
    Closed Accounts Posts: 133 ✭✭Urethral Buttercup


    Cobalt17 wrote: »
    If it’s a low level thread, you’ll fit right in.

    That's alright pet. Put the Jordan Peterson book on your bedside locker tonight and have an honest think about my question instead.


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    #34
    BabysCoffee
    Registered Users Posts: 4,712 ✭✭✭BabysCoffee


    Cobalt17 wrote: »
    Nope, their children should be removed from them though.


    How about forcing abortions on "junkies"?


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    #35
    Cobalt17
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 135 ✭✭Cobalt17


    tdf7187 wrote: »
    Hes talking about you and a smaller number of other far right trolls. Youse are like a bad smell that wont go away.

    I’m certainly not far right. How is trying to ensure children of drug addicts have some sort of a shot at a decent future “far right”?


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    #36
    Cobalt17
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 135 ✭✭Cobalt17


    Urethral Buttercup wrote: »
    That's alright pet. Put the Jordan Peterson book on your bedside locker tonight and have an honest think about my question instead.

    Your question was irrelevant and so are you.


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    #37
    Urethral Buttercup
    Closed Accounts Posts: 133 ✭✭Urethral Buttercup


    Cobalt17 wrote: »
    Your question was irrelevant and so are you.

    Doesn't surprise me that a fearful small man like you doesn't have the imagination to see the connection. Bye. I'm done with you now.


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    #38
    Made in China 2040
    Closed Accounts Posts: 175 ✭✭Made in China 2040


    Cobalt17 wrote: »
    Your question was irrelevant and so are you.

    What's your definition of a "junkie" OP?


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    #39
    Antares35
    Registered Users Posts: 3,845 ✭✭✭Antares35


    Anyone should be allowed to have children - once they can afford to rear them themselves without relying on handouts. There is a misconception that having children is a human right and that the state should pay for people to exercise this right...


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    #40
    Cobalt17
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 135 ✭✭Cobalt17


    Urethral Buttercup wrote: »
    Doesn't surprise me that a fearful small man like you doesn't have the imagination to see the connection. Bye. I'm done with you now.

    Doesn’t surprise me that a fat cow like you has such a response.


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    #41
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Just reduce welfare allocations for anyone with a history of unemployment and having more than one child. Any further children would be taken by the State and put up for adoption (with no allowable contact tracing from the original parents under any circumstances). All costs needed to process the adoption or to support the child prior to adoption would be automatically taken from the persons welfare allocations. Give the parent(s) a limited time of probation to show them capable of raising and supporting any further children, but once they fail with any child, they lose access to that child completely.

    I suspect the number of junkies having kids or those who are unable to afford to raise them, would dry up quickly. There are plenty of couples in Ireland or Europe who can't have children and would be interested in adopting a child. Once people recognise that they're not going to get a completely free ride from State benefits like welfare, then we'll see far less people willing to have children under such dubious circumstances. Getting pregnant once by accident is understandable. It happening repeatedly is ridiculous.

    I'd also love to see family planning and educational programs being brought in to teach anyone having kids, the ins and outs of the whole thing, including how not to have more. Including estimates of the costs involved in having and raising a child.

    While we do need the population to grow, we don't need a population that is tied to welfare.. and that's only going to become more common as time goes by, unless we put in better deterrents to that kind of behavior.


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    #42
    corner of hells
    Registered Users Posts: 8,356 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    Cobalt17 wrote: »
    I have done, I was told there was nothing they could do.

    Who the Gardai or TUSLA ?

    You can make informal contact with TUSLA or make a formal connection.


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    #43
    dublin.15
    Registered Users Posts: 42 ✭dublin.15


    Cobalt17 wrote: »
    Seeing junkies pushing prams is a horrible sight to behold. Why aren’t these children made ward of state, or contraceptive solutions mixed with methadone?

    you should be ashamed of yourself,people can change,maybe you should get the snip ,so your kids are not polluted by your views


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    #44
    Cobalt17
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 135 ✭✭Cobalt17


    Made in China 2040 wrote: »
    What's your definition of a "junkie" OP?

    Somebody addicted to drugs such as cocaine, crack, meth, heroin.


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    #45
    Cobalt17
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 135 ✭✭Cobalt17


    dublin.15 wrote: »
    you should be ashamed of yourself,people can change,maybe you should get the snip ,so your kids are not polluted by your views

    I know they can. But children should not be exposed to that sort of behaviour. I’ve no problem with reformed junkies having children.


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    #46
    Blueshoe
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭Blueshoe


    dublin.15 wrote: »
    you should be ashamed of yourself,people can change,maybe you should get the snip ,so your kids are not polluted by your views

    What about those who don't change?
    Addiction relapse rates are 40% to 60% and they have to want to quit in the first place. The poor child or children only grow up once.


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    #47
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    Cobalt17 wrote: »
    So it’s better to leave children in the care of junkies than the state? Cop yourself on, we have a duty to at least give children a chance. Leaving them in the care of a pair of heroin addicts is removing any chance of a normal life from them.

    This is not necessarily true. A lot of parents who suffer from heroin addiction are perfectly capable of raising a child when they are sober. Indeed even when they are using they would be able to raise children, especially if they are getting support in doing so.

    I am not fully convinced that you are grasping the concept off heroin addiction and how it afflicts its' victims. As of 2019 stats there are about 19,000 persons admitting to have become exposed to heroin use in their lifetime. That is around 1 in every 260 citizens in the republic. Of these 19,000 potential users there are currently over half on methadone treatment, over 10,000, about 1 in 500 citizens. So officially we have around 10,000 serious heroin users who are attempting treatment. Hopefully for them they get some sort of success out of it and can manage to improve their options and help them to cope better as a result.

    Your belief that users have families and that both parents are active users is a little cynical. Yes it does happen, but it is in no way prevalent. More often than not families will be affected by one user in the family. But your hypothetical dystopia of two strung out parents hopelessly trying to raise a child is extremely uncommon. It happens , but it is not really that prevalent.

    Where social services become aware of a one parent family being mismanaged by a user they will intervene. This does and will happen, but we have a system in place around it. It can be extremely difficult for a one parent family if the active parent is also suffering from addiction issues.

    To be honest I find your suggestion both extremely naïve and quite frankly abhorrent. The most vulnerable members of our society deserve the most attention, they need support. Your concept of removing citizens human rights based on some value system you have invented in your own mind is frankly disgusting. I get the distinct impression from your op that you are possibly more interested in persecuting sufferers of heroin addiction than protecting the future of their off-spring. Get a grip and get a life.


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    #48
    corner of hells
    Registered Users Posts: 8,356 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    This is not necessarily true. A lot of parents who suffer from heroin addiction are perfectly capable of raising a child when they are sober. Indeed even when they are using they would be able to raise children, especially if they are getting support in doing so.

    I am not fully convinced that you are grasping the concept off heroin addiction and how it afflicts its' victims. As of 2019 stats there are about 19,000 persons admitting to have become exposed to heroin use in their lifetime. That is around 1 in every 260 citizens in the republic. Of these 19,000 potential users there are currently over half on methadone treatment, over 10,000, about 1 in 500 citizens. So officially we have around 10,000 serious heroin users who are attempting treatment. Hopefully for them they get some sort off success out of it and can manage to improve their options and help them to cope better as a result.

    Your belief that users have families and that both parents are active users is a little cynical. Yes it does happen, but it is in no way prevalent. More often than not families will be affected by one user in the family. But your hypothetical dystopia of two strung out parents hopelessly trying to raise a child is extremely uncommon. It happens , but it is not really that prevalent.

    Where social services become aware of a one parent family being mismanaged by a user they will intervene. This does and will happen, but we have a system in place around it. It can be extremely difficult for a one parent family if the active parent is also suffering from addiction issues.

    To be honest I find your suggestion both extremely naïve and quite frankly abhorrent. The most vulnerable members of our society deserve the most attention, they need support. Your concept of removing citizens human rights based on some value system you have invented in your own mind is frankly disgusting. I get the distinct impression from your op that you are possibly more interested in persecuting sufferers of heroin addiction than protecting the future of their off-spring. Get a grip and get a life.

    Awww , you're after ruining the thread with that post.


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    #49
    Cobalt17
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 135 ✭✭Cobalt17


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    This is not necessarily true. A lot of parents who suffer from heroin addiction are perfectly capable of raising a child when they are sober. Indeed even when they are using they would be able to raise children, especially if they are getting support in doing so.

    I am not fully convinced that you are grasping the concept off heroin addiction and how it afflicts its' victims. As of 2019 stats there are about 19,000 persons admitting to have become exposed to heroin use in their lifetime. That is around 1 in every 260 citizens in the republic. Of these 19,000 potential users there are currently over half on methadone treatment, over 10,000, about 1 in 500 citizens. So officially we have around 10,000 serious heroin users who are attempting treatment. Hopefully for them they get some sort of success out of it and can manage to improve their options and help them to cope better as a result.

    Your belief that users have families and that both parents are active users is a little cynical. Yes it does happen, but it is in no way prevalent. More often than not families will be affected by one user in the family. But your hypothetical dystopia of two strung out parents hopelessly trying to raise a child is extremely uncommon. It happens , but it is not really that prevalent.

    Where social services become aware of a one parent family being mismanaged by a user they will intervene. This does and will happen, but we have a system in place around it. It can be extremely difficult for a one parent family if the active parent is also suffering from addiction issues.

    To be honest I find your suggestion both extremely naïve and quite frankly abhorrent. The most vulnerable members of our society deserve the most attention, they need support. Your concept of removing citizens human rights based on some value system you have invented in your own mind is frankly disgusting. I get the distinct impression from your op that you are possibly more interested in persecuting sufferers of heroin addiction than protecting the future of their off-spring. Get a grip and get a life.

    No.


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    #50
    Made in China 2040
    Closed Accounts Posts: 175 ✭✭Made in China 2040


    Cobalt17 wrote: »
    Somebody addicted to drugs such as cocaine, crack, meth, heroin.

    What about alcoholics, prescription drug abusers, people addicted to food to name a few?

    Have you ever had a addiction to anything yourself?


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    #51
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    The alternative is worse. Think it through.


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    #52
    kravmaga
    Registered Users Posts: 1,945 ✭✭✭kravmaga


    Cobalt17 wrote: »
    Seeing junkies pushing prams is a horrible sight to behold. Why aren’t these children made ward of state, or contraceptive solutions mixed with methadone?

    No. Absolutely not.

    If they do have children what quality of life will they provide for their children.

    What values will they teach them?

    How will they lead by example to be a person who actively contributes to society?

    How will they take care of them in the very fundamental routines of early life, education, clothes, love etc


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    #53
    Cobalt17
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 135 ✭✭Cobalt17


    Made in China 2040 wrote: »
    What about alcoholics, prescription drug abusers, people addicted to food to name a few?

    Have you ever had a addiction to anything yourself?

    They’re not the subject here.


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    #54
    Cobalt17
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 135 ✭✭Cobalt17


    Junkyard Tom wrote: »
    The alternative is worse. Think it through.

    How?


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    #55
    elperello
    Registered Users Posts: 14,240 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    jam_mac_jam wrote: »
    Children all over the world are removed from parents who abuse them. Are you actually arguing that this shouldn't happen.

    And being rude to someone else for absolutely no reason.

    Yes I am when the parents are the victims of abuse themselves and the situation can be resolved otherwise.

    Do you seriously expect me to observe the normal niceties when corresponding with someone who posts the likes of below?
    Cobalt17 wrote: »
    Doesn’t surprise me that a fat cow like you has such a response.


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    #56
    Cobalt17
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 135 ✭✭Cobalt17


    elperello wrote: »
    Yes I am when the parents are the victims of abuse themselves and the situation can be resolved otherwise.

    Do you seriously expect me to observe the normal niceties when corresponding with someone who posts the likes of below?

    Yeah, its not like I was insulted first or anything. G’lad.


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    #57
    Made in China 2040
    Closed Accounts Posts: 175 ✭✭Made in China 2040


    Cobalt17 wrote: »
    They’re not the subject here.

    You ignored my direct question, have you ever had any addictions?

    They're the subject as you're classing who you think are "junkies".


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    #58
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    Cobalt17 wrote: »
    How?

    The alternative is forced sterilisation. Now think through how setting up a system of forced sterilisation might work, and see where it takes you. Don't force me to do your thinking for you.


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    #59
    Fritzbox
    Registered Users Posts: 488 ✭✭Fritzbox


    Made in China 2040 wrote: »
    What about alcoholics, prescription drug abusers, people addicted to food to name a few?

    If they are failing to fulfill their basic duties as parents, why not?


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    #60
    Cobalt17
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 135 ✭✭Cobalt17


    Made in China 2040 wrote: »
    You ignored my direct question, have you ever had any addictions?

    They're the subject as you're classing who you think are "junkies".

    Nope, I’m not addicted to anything. I’ve never been dim enough to try any addictive substance.


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    #61
    elperello
    Registered Users Posts: 14,240 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Cobalt17 wrote: »
    Yeah, its not like I was insulted first or anything. G’lad.

    You were not insulted.

    You were robustly requested to contribute something useful to the thread you opened or close it.

    So far you have failed to do either.


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