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Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 ***Updated Mod Note Post 1***

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,851 ✭✭✭Mountainlad


    Miall108 wrote: »
    That KK team were never expected to do anything, obviously were expected to put up a better fight than they did but they were never going to get near the All Ireland, whereas the Waterford team made up of most of the Seniors should be walking to the All Ireland. Did the little bit of pressure get to ye again?

    Oh really?
    unrealtime wrote: »
    Fantastic win indeed - under the radar. I expect to see us win it out this year. We have the hurlers to do it. The back door makes it really tough but we have the men who don't lie down.

    We will improve as we go along. To beat Dublin in their own back yard was some achievement.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,293 ✭✭✭Deise_2012


    Tramore84 wrote: »
    We should be thankful a ' boundary commission ' won't use hurling achievements as a criteria otherwise South Kk will be extended to the Copper Coast.

    I think Dublin will be a real threat and will be set up smartly ( unlike Cork earlier on in the year) Paul Ryan is a v good forward and will have to be watched closely.
    Paul Ryan is a windy forward. Noel Connors will take care of him


  • Registered Users Posts: 134 ✭✭Tramore84


    Deise_2012 wrote: »
    Paul Ryan is a windy forward. Noel Connors will take care of him

    Windy?


  • Registered Users Posts: 122 ✭✭Horseboxhead


    Windy = Nice Hurler , No Tramp in him, i think he lacks a bit of top pace too, good free taker though, yeah Conners would snuff him out like a candle. He is the exact opposite to Ryan O'Dwyer , too much tramp and a little Hurling, Gotta admire his bite though, really want's to win to the point of it being all consuming, he get's sent off about every third Championship game so he's Due.


  • Registered Users Posts: 580 ✭✭✭HillFarmer


    Will we see any drastic change regarding positioning I wonder?

    I think we need a bit more bite up front.

    If D Fives was Fit, I'd be for pushing Gleeson up front.

    Jesus i cant wait for the game.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,243 ✭✭✭deiseach


    HillFarmer wrote: »
    Jesus i cant wait for the game.

    I'm sick at the thought of it. After such a wonderful year, to be out of everything before everyone else in Munster, even if only by a few hours, would be a proper downer.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,134 ✭✭✭Tom Joad


    Once again a mod has had to step in a clean up this thread after it has become a car crash. A number of persistent offenders have been given bans and warned not to post here again once they serve their bans.

    This thread is for discussion on Waterford GAA and if posters want to keep it on topic, please report posts than are derailing the thread as mods don't read every post- we rely on posters to report posts that are against the charter.

    /End Mod - carry on :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 489 ✭✭Mulbert


    Have to say, a crack at Kilkenny would be great But people are forgetting that this Dublin team have absolutely no fear of Waterford. They have beaten us in the last knockout game they played us in, and the "system" is out there for anyone to examine and exploit. I'm extremely nervous going to this game!


  • Registered Users Posts: 427 ✭✭blueflame


    Think we will be up against it Sunday. Dublin were very impressive at start of year until collapse against cork. They have their problems but are a fine side that have a big game in them. That being said believe we have the hurlers to win. Would like to see darragh fives in at wing back, move gleeson to Dunford role and push Dunford into corner and keep him in there alongside Bennett. Expect and hope to see Patrick curran get some decent game time, maybe not to start but getting him in for 25 min or so. Cannot wait for Sunday


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,768 ✭✭✭✭tomwaterford


    HillFarmer wrote: »
    Will we see any drastic change regarding positioning I wonder?

    I think we need a bit more bite up front.

    If D Fives was Fit, I'd be for pushing Gleeson up front.

    Jesus i cant wait for the game.

    Have to say I think myself gleeson would be served better in midfield/deeper where his powerful running and at times in the u21 match brilliant distribution Of the ball would be most effective??

    No point in throwing him up in the forwards to turn around and make a defender of him in a year or two time??

    This is still a team in development and no real massive need for emergency fixes!
    Though his strength would be needed midfield....right job in hindsight would've been to swop himself And Moran in the Munster final


    Looking forward to this match....think the dubs will bring a physicality that Waterford have not seen yet...will they have the intensity and effort that tipp brought to the Munster final??


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  • Registered Users Posts: 580 ✭✭✭HillFarmer


    Have to say I think myself gleeson would be served better in midfield/deeper where his powerful running and at times in the u21 match brilliant distribution Of the ball would be most effective??

    No point in throwing him up in the forwards to turn around and make a defender of him in a year or two time??

    This is still a team in development and no real massive need for emergency fixes!
    Though his strength would be needed midfield....right job in hindsight would've been to swop himself And Moran in the Munster final


    Looking forward to this match....think the dubs will bring a physicality that Waterford have not seen yet...will they have the intensity and effort that tipp brought to the Munster final??


    Wouldn't disagree with that. I just feel he can be wasteful when shooting from half back.

    I'd like to see him forwards or midfield and drive on from there.

    I'm not a coach or tactician so I'll leave that to the managers but I feel he needlessly wastes possession. Phenominal talent dont get me wrong.


    I feel this Dublin game is massive for this group. Hopefully they'll come out with 100% intensity from the off.

    Do you think Darragh Fives will / should start?


  • Registered Users Posts: 854 ✭✭✭carq


    What terrace are wford in - Town end again?


  • Registered Users Posts: 66 ✭✭DE DEISE


    deiseach wrote: »
    I'm sick at the thought of it. After such a wonderful year, to be out of everything before everyone else in Munster, even if only by a few hours, would be a proper downer.

    Clare are already out and so are Limerick so what do you mean ???


  • Registered Users Posts: 427 ✭✭blueflame


    A big ask for Darragh but he has to start at some stage and if we get passed Dublin it woad be nice for him to have a game under his belt before facing the Cats. Re positioning of Gleeson, in the event that Fives is named wing back fro Sunday - Would play him as part of a three man midfield alongside Barron and Moran, with Barron playing centre , deep in front of De Burca, Gleeson on the right and Moran on the left both being given licence to drive forward.

    Half forward line of Maurice, Brick & Dillon, I believe this line up carries a scoring threath coupled with work rate, and think that Dillon's hurling brain is vital in this area to get good ball into inside forwards. Inside Line of Stephen Bennett, and Dunford and get them to stay inside. To get the best out of Bennett's predatory instincts for goal we need to play him inside, and Dunford's pace and directness carries a real goal threat also. The two of these are more than capable of causing any full back line trouble especially with the right ball, and also of keeping teh full back line busy and on their toes.

    Options from the bench. - Paudie Prendergast to cover Fives in he breaks down - actually believe Paudie is unlucky not to be starting,. everytime he has played for Waterford he has done really well and i would have no worry in placing him. Shane Roche apparently going really well also.

    Barrett, with a game under his belt should be capable of coming into the game. have seen hi in several challenges and believe he is much better than his performance the last day and believe Gavin O'Brien is really showing up in challenges and training.

    In the forwards Patrick Curran has to get some decent game time and for me preferably off the bench along with Shane Bennett and Tom Devine.

    I do not view this as any major change of tactics, we still have de Burca sweeping, we have two natural wing backs and we have three massive engines in the midfield area capable of both providing cover for the back lines and getting forward at pace. We have a combination of brawn, brain, speed and scoring ability in the half forward line, and a real goal threat in the full forward line. Key thing for me is to make sure the inside forward line do not drift miles out the field. They need to stay inside and pull wide so they spread the full back line and keep the space in front of them, this can nulify the effect of the sweeper to some degree, (if Dublin play one) . If we can master this I believe we have a real chance against anyone, KK and Tipp included, but let's get past Dublin who are a real threat on Sunday.


  • Registered Users Posts: 427 ✭✭blueflame


    DE DEISE wrote: »
    Clare are already out and so are Limerick so what do you mean ???

    Think he means Clare are still in the U-21 while Limerick are still in Minor and U-21. Waterford and Cork only have senior left while Tipp will still be in senor and minor. We loose on Sunday before Cork and we are first countie out of all three competitions


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,243 ✭✭✭deiseach


    Mulbert wrote: »
    Have to say, a crack at Kilkenny would be great

    It's not as if we're allowed have a crack at them on here.

    I'll get my coat...


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,243 ✭✭✭deiseach


    blueflame wrote: »
    Think he means Clare are still in the U-21 while Limerick are still in Minor and U-21. Waterford and Cork only have senior left while Tipp will still be in senor and minor. We loose on Sunday before Cork and we are first countie out of all three competitions

    That's exactly what I mean.


  • Registered Users Posts: 122 ✭✭Horseboxhead


    I think that Not only should Darragh fives start, but i would play him in the sweeper role that Tadgh de burca plays, and this is not a reflection on de burca at all, but Fives is a natural born and bread defender and a superb reader of the game, and a natural leader, something i think de burca, has yet to turn into[and i believe its well within him] Just fives is a bit more experienced and mature.
    My reason for doing this is De Burca for me was always at his most natural a wing back, and would be allowed the freedom that Gleeson is allowed from that position to attack the game , as his ball striking and delivery are top top quality, and we would not miss his defencive instincts which sometime Gleeson lacks, or does not have, it would alos allow one or two things with gleeson, push him to midfield [ not sure if he has the workrate], or push him right up , and i mean at the edge of the square with maurice , as he is possibly the most natural hurler i have ever seen at his age, and positions don't seem to bother him, and he would cause unbeliavable damage , he's tall , rangy, and a wonderfull hurler, probably a better balanced striker than maurice, and that again is with total respect to our best forward this year in the championship in terms of scoring and giving us the outlet we need because of our "system", but only if Gleeson matches Maurices hunger and work, anything less and he becomes a passenger.
    I am also a massive massive fan of Patrick curran, Closest thing to Richie hogan in terms of Natural ability, and could play that role, but will be very interesting to see how he develops in the next 12 months, he is as of now, Potentially, the brightest and most natural hurling forward in the country bar none, but whilst that alone would have guaranteed him being a big star 8/9 years go, now it is just one of about 5 things needed to be top class in today's game, but what he has can't be taught , he has magic in his hands and in his head, his striking is as pure as it can be, freetaking quality, now lets see if the dog has some serious bite and hunger, then you have greatness, and i really hope he has.
    Will get game time on sunday no doubt, but will be cameos i would say for this year, need a big game now from Tom devine, Dublin should suit him, his stock has fallen a bit since U-21's defeat, and Munster final , he could not affect both games, could not get on ball, and when he did in the U-21 his distribution and skill level was iffy, i have huge time for what he has though and i love his honesty, so i would love to see him make a massive impact.
    I Like Eddie Barrett, i know alot of People were questioning him starting the last day, and i know at times he gave the ball away, two of the times were particularly highlighted, but jesus the work and pressure he brings and the intensity , fitness and desire, it fairly pours off him, I remember his first game for waterford , prior to that bad injury, i thought this lad can hurl, and unfortunatly his hurling left him down a bit in the Munster final, but he needed that game, all the nerves and making his seasonal debut are all gone, so i think we will see more of him, he suits the role needed too, he works and runs into lads with a serious will, if he adds a bit of hurling to that with a bit of confidence , then he is a serious asset, any one i've spoken too says he can hurl, so we'll see.
    I think Dublin have shown themselves to be Honest but Limited, i think Cunningham has shown himself to be at his best prior to games on the training ground getting teams ready , improves their hurling usually, and generally makes them fit, but i think in games going back to his time with Ballygunner, he tends to set his stall out and no matter waht way the game is going , never changes his system all that much, very much a throwback, likes old style play it up the lines , get it up front as quickly as possible, even after Cork defeat in league semi, came out the next day with exact same set up, think we'll win, i think it is a huge Battle, as i think now Realism has set in to where we are in the pecking order, not too worried about U-21'S defeat[as history would tells us, we don't win them], and alot of the leaders on the Senior team , were not Playing , Connors, S fives, Kevin Moran, brick , So not too worried, and also if i remember correctly no body was really up in arms over the Munster final, which with a bit of tweaking we could have won, but tipp were a bit better on the day, so Onwards and upwards, prepare for war, and we will win it by a couple of Points, but it won't be anyway easy, even at our best, now it never is.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,113 ✭✭✭galwaylad14


    HillFarmer wrote: »
    Wouldn't disagree with that. I just feel he can be wasteful when shooting from half back.

    I'd like to see him forwards or midfield and drive on from there.

    I'm not a coach or tactician so I'll leave that to the managers but I feel he needlessly wastes possession. Phenominal talent dont get me wrong.


    I feel this Dublin game is massive for this group. Hopefully they'll come out with 100% intensity from the off.

    Do you think Darragh Fives will / should start?


    You're exactly right on Gleeson. Supreme hurler, absolutely no doubt about that but from what I've seen of him so far the 6 inches between the ears are letting him down massively.

    Every game he hits 3 or 4 crazy wides from long range. Such a waste of the ball. It looks to me as though he sort of plays to the crowd, constantly looking for the massive inspirational score to get the massive roar from the crowd. Would be much better off trying to feed a good ball into the forwards instead of that sort of messing. Great when it comes off but it's about a 1 in 5 shot really.

    Now maybe that's a little harsh as I know he's young and as I said he's a gifted hurler, just needs to make better decisions.

    Anyway I'd expect ye to win Sunday and probably win with a small bit to spare. Dublin are pretty poor having seen them in the flesh twice this year when we played them. Hopefully we can join ye in the semi finals.


  • Registered Users Posts: 257 ✭✭dcrosskid


    You're exactly right on Gleeson. Supreme hurler, absolutely no doubt about that but from what I've seen of him so far the 6 inches between the ears are letting him down massively.

    Every game he hits 3 or 4 crazy wides from long range. Such a waste of the ball. It looks to me as though he sort of plays to the crowd, constantly looking for the massive inspirational score to get the massive roar from the crowd. Would be much better off trying to feed a good ball into the forwards instead of that sort of messing. Great when it comes off but it's about a 1 in 5 shot really.

    Now maybe that's a little harsh as I know he's young and as I said he's a gifted hurler, just needs to make better decisions.

    Anyway I'd expect ye to win Sunday and probably win with a small bit to spare. Dublin are pretty poor having seen them in the flesh twice this year when we played them. Hopefully we can join ye in the semi finals.

    That's all well & good but considering Waterford only have 2 forwards to aim at most of the time with 4-5 backs in close proximity it is often the right option to take the shot on. Waterford's game plan often centers around creating chances from long range, see Shane Fives 2 points in the Munster final for example.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,122 ✭✭✭redlead


    I can't see Derek making too many changes at all on Sunday and certainly now isn't the time in championship knockout.

    Gleeson is fast turning into the new Eoin Kelly as some peoples favourite player to give out about. The problem with Aussie largely isn’t him, it’s the system he is playing in. People are annoyed that he is taking long pot shots and missing but he usually only does it when there is either no one up front or one man with three markers on him. It’s occasionally the wrong decision but not always. A lot of people just don’t like the Aussie/Ken/Kelly style of player anymore. Aussies natural instinct is to be a pure off the cuff player like Ken was and I think that he has done remarkably well to adjust his game to curtail it to a certain extent. Tadhg de Burca for example is a classic example of the type of player people love now. Unbelievably solid and does the job he is told to do without deviating from the plan or doing any fancy stuff. The simple fact is that both are great players in different ways. You need players like Aussie with a spark of genius to win you big games.

    A lot of posters here talk about Darragh Fives as if he is John Keane re-incarnated or something. He is a very good player no doubt but still has it all to prove at intercounty level. It would be maddness to swap him with De Burca who has been sensational this year for us in the role he is playing. Some also want to move Aussie up front and replace him in the backs with Fives but a major part of our game plan this year is based on our running backs. Moving Aussie would really impact that. I just can't see it happenening this year.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,851 ✭✭✭Mountainlad


    Darragh Fives has Ben fantastic any day he's been fit. Whether he's fit now or not I don't know, unlikely and I don't think he'll start.

    I've never met anyone and I wouldn't be log telling them where to go if I did that didn't appreciate how good Ken was. He started up front too before he moved back. If Darragh was fit than somebody needs to move up front because 1-9 all deserve to retain there places (not including Eddie Barrett in that). I like the suggestion of playing a two man inside forward line. You could swap lads in and out as well to give everyone a breather and would probably aid sustaining the high octane game the lads are playing.

    I do think there is scope for a change as we haven't really seen any improvement since the league final in my opinion, maybe even since the Tipp semi final as the problem remains to many wides and I guess not enough goals.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,122 ✭✭✭redlead


    Darragh Fives has Ben fantastic any day he's been fit. Whether he's fit now or not I don't know, unlikely and I don't think he'll start.

    I've never met anyone and I wouldn't be log telling them where to go if I did that didn't appreciate how good Ken was. He started up front too before he moved back. If Darragh was fit than somebody needs to move up front because 1-9 all deserve to retain there places (not including Eddie Barrett in that). I like the suggestion of playing a two man inside forward line. You could swap lads in and out as well to give everyone a breather and would probably aid sustaining the high octane game the lads are playing.

    I do think there is scope for a change as we haven't really seen any improvement since the league final in my opinion, maybe even since the Tipp semi final as the problem remains to many wides and I guess not enough goals.

    Some fair points, but the only thing I would say is that I still don't think that "our system" has been broken by anyone. It still had Tipp rattled for a long enough period where we had the oppotunity to win the game. Some of our wides against them were awful misses (not the long range ones). I think we should stick with it for this year and see how far it gets us. KK still havent tasted it and will try to play their own game against us. You never know where we could end up. A lot of the suggestions on here are good ones, I just don't think we should be trying them at this stage of the championship.

    Just on the wides, Dunford would be some player if he could sort his shooting out. He is brilliant at almost every other facet of the game but h has an awful shot. We saw it in the under 21 game too. I really hope he works on it as he has some potential.


  • Registered Users Posts: 40 pkc1


    redlead wrote: »
    I can't see Derek making too many changes at all on Sunday and certainly now isn't the time in championship knockout.

    Gleeson is fast turning into the new Eoin Kelly as some peoples favourite player to give out about. The problem with Aussie largely isn’t him, it’s the system he is playing in. People are annoyed that he is taking long pot shots and missing but he usually only does it when there is either no one up front or one man with three markers on him. It’s occasionally the wrong decision but not always. A lot of people just don’t like the Aussie/Ken/Kelly style of player anymore. Aussies natural instinct is to be a pure off the cuff player like Ken was and I think that he has done remarkably well to adjust his game to curtail it to a certain extent. Tadhg de Burca for example is a classic example of the type of player people love now. Unbelievably solid and does the job he is told to do without deviating from the plan or doing any fancy stuff. The simple fact is that both are great players in different ways. You need players like Aussie with a spark of genius to win you big games.

    I'd definitely agree with you that taking long shots (and the risk of missing a few of them) is part of the game plan with only 1 or 2 lads in the forward line and I wouldn't give out to him over it at all.

    At the same time, I'd like to see Gleeson take his time a bit more before he goes for that shot because there have been a number of occasions he's pucked balls wide with no pressure on him. In a perfect world, even if there's no one available for the long ball then there might be lads ready for a shorter ball in the 1/2 forward line, or to give a short 1-2 with lads in midfield and work the ball forward like the point Moran got at the start of the 2nd Cork game. We've seen him go on some incredible runs up the sideline this year and I'd love to see that being his Plan B instead of the shot from 100 yards....... particularly if we can get someone running on his shoulder looking for the pass. I'd have thought that there's enough lads knocking around the middle third to make that possible, they just need to commit to attack instead of worrying about leaving space behind them. In fairness they've done that well in a lot of game this year it just never happen against Tipp.

    At any rate, I'm not overly pushed about how many shots at goal Gleeson gets on Sunday, I'll be looking more to see how much ball he wins and particularly how many 50/50's. Regardless of the wides he was quiet against Tipp, but if he gets the ball in his hand a lot on Sunday then I think we'll win, even if he does puck a few balls wide along the way.


  • Registered Users Posts: 37,553 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    One of the best games i ever saw was in the 2013 All ireland semi final Dublin vs Cork. Dublin were outstanding that day and lost. They were crap in 2014 and have improved a lot in 2015.

    If Dublin are good there good but if there bad there bad. Hopefully there bad sunday but i think they will scrape it by a late heartbreaking point.

    I just hope wides dont cost us like it did in the munster final.

    Hope some Waterford supporters remember its on at 2pm not 4pm (Some dose to walking into semple at 3.30 to find out the game is over lol)


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,811 ✭✭✭deisedude


    PTH2009 wrote: »
    One of the best games i ever saw was in the 2013 All ireland semi final Dublin vs Cork. Dublin were outstanding that day and lost. They were crap in 2014 and have improved a lot in 2015.

    If Dublin are good there good but if there bad there bad. Hopefully there bad sunday but i think they will scrape it by a late heartbreaking point.

    I just hope wides dont cost us like it did in the munster final.

    Hope some Waterford supporters remember its on at 2pm not 4pm (Some dose to walking into semple at 3.30 to find out the game is over lol)

    They haven't improved in my eyes. Beat out the gate by Galway and if Limerick were any good they should finished the game before half time.

    I would be very very disappointed if we lose this game. We should win and win well if we haven any aspirations of catching Tipp and Kilkenny


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 486 ✭✭Jjjjjjjbarry


    I think that Not only should Darragh fives start, but i would play him in the sweeper role that Tadgh de burca plays, and this is not a reflection on de burca at all, but Fives is a natural born and bread defender and a superb reader of the game, and a natural leader, something i think de burca, has yet to turn into[and i believe its well within him] Just fives is a bit more experienced and mature.


    Tadhg De Burca has been Waterford's player of the year in my opinion. Absolutely covered everything. He's a certain all star I'd think.

    Just my opinion, but I would not move him from the sweeper role. He reads the play so well and turns up everywhere and gives the other defenders confidence.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,748 ✭✭✭corny


    No, too early to say Dublin have improved but it remains to be seen if winning a tight game against Limerick has any effect.

    The defeat to Cork in the league and the fact they let Galway off the hook in the first game seemed to really knock the stuffing out of them. They've seemed like a team paralysed by a lack of morale and confidence ever since.

    Hopefully, from a Dublin perspective, they step it up now because from the looks of Waterford so far, their intensity will be too much for Dublin if they don't.


  • Registered Users Posts: 353 ✭✭JamieK


    Hi. I'm a selector of an under 16 team in South Tipperary that would be very competitive at "A" grade.

    I didn't know where to ask but I thought why not here. Somebody from Tramore is asking for a challenge match but wasn't able to tell me what grade they would play at or what level they are. There would be no point in travelling unless the 2 teams were relatively well matched. I'd greatly appreciate if somebody could help me out here!! Thanks in advance.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,868 ✭✭✭Dick phelan


    I'm amazed people want to move De Burca he's been outstanding this year possibly our best player in fact, Let's not get carried away here we lost by 5 points to Tipp in a game where we hit some awful wides, the system needs slight tweeking not a complete transformation. Personally i'd play Curran and Darrah Fives if he is fit and move Aussie more forward. Outside of that i wouldn't make any changes and from a logical standpoint how much abuse would the management get if we lost to Dublin and De Burca had been moved people would be going mental at such a crazy decision. I'm confident about Sunday we should have more then enough to beat Dublin if we play our game, just hoping the shooting improves on the last day and that we see one or two more forward at times.


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