2004 Ducato's become a smelly old diesel :(

CelticRambler · 02-03-2020 10:31pm #1

Over the last few years, my Ducato (2.8l JTD) has become something of a stereotypical smelly old diesel, the kind that gets us a bad name and thrown out of Low Emissions Zones.

It still purrs nicely, like it always has, and on the road, I've had only an occasional puff of black smoke when changing gears going up a 7% gradient. I've tried two doses of an injector cleaner and some high-rev driving over about 20km to no effect.

What next? Change the exhaust system?

autumnalcore · 03-03-2020 12:27am

CelticRambler wrote: »

Over the last few years, my Ducato (2.8l JTD) has become something of a stereotypical smelly old diesel, the kind that gets us a bad name and thrown out of Low Emissions Zones. It still purrs nicely, like it always has, and on the road, I've had only an occasional puff of black smoke when changing gears going up a 7% gradient. I've tried two doses of an injector cleaner and some high-rev driving over about 20km to no effect.

What next? Change the exhaust system?

How many miles? Injectors may be worn.

CelticRambler · 03-03-2020 1:32am

180000 km

Not sure if it's relevant, but on my last mountainous trip, the "engine block" light flickered a few times, again during steep ascents. The book said don't worry if it only flickers, so I didn't worry and it didn't come on again once I'd come down below 2000m ... but I'd really like to get another 15 years' mountain climbing out of it.

The smelliness is more of a problem at rest on the flat, e.g. while being interrogated at the Eurotunnel control points.

samih · 04-03-2020 6:10pm

Check the EGR valve operation (that it is not sticking in partially open position at full load) and also check the inlet manifold for soot buildup would be my first two ports of call on any diesel engine after a few miles have built up. This is not spefic to Ducato.

And the injectors are the number 3. Just because checking them is not "free".

CelticRambler · 29-05-2020 4:52pm

samih wrote: »

Check the EGR valve operation (that it is not sticking in partially open position at full load) and also check the inlet manifold for soot buildup

Finally getting back to this after numerous distractions (like work, when everyone else was locked down, and garden because it's too sunny not to ... )

And first hurdle: where the feck is the EGR valve?

I've looked at the engine from in front, from behind, from below and can't see it (or at least nothing that looks like the picture on the FiatForum eper diagram; and I can't find any YouTube Ducato video to guide me. Do I need to remove various tubes, covers and reservoirs before getting within a spanner's reach of the part?

Related question: the local supermarket garage is offering an emissions reducing treatment for about 65€, some kind of de-carbonising treatment for which they need the vehicle for about three quarters of an hour. Would it be more worth my while getting that done first while I'm doing my grocery shopping instead of grazing my knuckles under the bonnet?

autumnalcore · 30-05-2020 1:59am

99% don't have an egr, your €65 is better spent elsewhere.

CJhaughey · 30-05-2020 8:06am

I would say the best bang for your buck would be to book in with a diesel specialist and have them look at the issue, it could be a simple but not cheap fix like reconditioning the injectors.
The injectors cannot be reconditioned by simply pouring a bottle into the tank and running it, they are moving mechanical parts and wear out over time and get blocked.

CelticRambler · 30-05-2020 8:46am

Hmm. Well, I'd certainly be happier to let someone else do the diagnostics ... if I can find the right person! It's one of those "easier said than done" situations - when the 'van isn't off the road (literally off the road, as in has to be dragged back onto it with a tractor), it's in near-constant use and almost impossible for me to arrange workshop visits that need more than half day.

Perfectly bad timing meant that the one appointment I'd made to leave it in for an indefinite period fell on the first day of lockdown here in France, and was cancelled with only a day's notice. Ah well. I'll carry on with the rest of the service and if it doesn't fail the emissions test, will make enquiries to see if there's someone in the town where I'll be working in June and July who might be able to do the necessary.

[Deleted User] · 30-05-2020 1:32pm

Dipetane + Italian service?

martyc5674 · 30-05-2020 1:35pm

CelticRambler wrote: »

Hmm. Well, I'd certainly be happier to let someone else do the diagnostics ... if I can find the right person! It's one of those "easier said than done" situations - when the 'van isn't off the road (literally off the road, as in has to be dragged back onto it with a tractor), it's in near-constant use and almost impossible for me to arrange workshop visits that need more than half day.

Perfectly bad timing meant that the one appointment I'd made to leave it in for an indefinite period fell on the first day of lockdown here in France, and was cancelled with only a day's notice. Ah well. I'll carry on with the rest of the service and if it doesn't fail the emissions test, will make enquiries to see if there's someone in the town where I'll be working in June and July who might be able to do the necessary.

When was fuel filter last changed?

[Deleted User] · 30-05-2020 1:57pm

+ air filter

autumnalcore · 30-05-2020 2:19pm

With the common rail youd generally get a low pressure error chugging put the Alps if there was fuel starvation. Definitely worth changing the air filter. If its pulling fine and blowing smoke it's more likely to be over fuelling e.g.injector tolerance, dribbling injector, pressure regular on pump not sealing properly.

I would pull the injectors and look at the nozzles you might find only one or two are gunked up in which case I would get those tested.

Unfortunately common rail injectors are not cheap to rebuild need to be rebuilt in clean room conditions so rebuild price could be half the price of a new injector and a fraction of the life expectancy. You can be lucky picking new ones up on ebay I got a set of 4 from a dealer in UK for £360. Search by part number which is stamped.on top of the injector will be something like 0 445 001 then 3 digits.

CelticRambler · 30-05-2020 3:28pm

martyc5674 wrote: »

When was fuel filter last changed?

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

+ air filter

Both changed Nov 2016 @ 147745km ;
Vehicle taken off the road Jul 2019 @ 180393km

autumnalcore wrote:

With the common rail youd generally get a low pressure error chugging put the Alps if there was fuel starvation.

In fifteen years, I've never had any warning light come on (other than the tank empty light :pac: ) until those few trips at the start of last year, when the "injection system failure" light flickered (for which the book says Occasional and brief lighting of the warning light is meaningless.

The smelliness of the exhaust pre-dates that by at least a year or two, but it would seem that I need to at least find and look at the injectors ...

[Deleted User] · 30-05-2020 3:38pm

Change oil and filters, throw a cuppa petrol or fuel additive into the diesel tank, drive her like ya stole her for 20mins.
If that doesn't fix it then smash the piggy bank.

autumnalcore · 31-05-2020 9:29pm

If your injectors are 00445120002 there are new ones on ebay at the moment for £150 each.

I would make a cheeky offer of £100 each for 4 of them.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/500313105-NEW-BOSCH-INJECTOR-IVECO-FIAT-PEUGEO-CITROEN-RENAULT/303479246014?hash=item46a8c5ccbe:g:CHIAAOSwNMZeP-Lf

You'll pay £90 each for reconditioned ones.

2004 Ducato's become a smelly old diesel :(

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