Planning issues - post them here MOD WARNING post #1

sydthebeat · 19-04-2019 9:46am

Reputable Rog wrote: »

Part of the vanity that goes with one off houses, make sure the house is visible everywhere.
Anyway families with sometimes 10 children were raised in 2 bedroom terraces in the towns and cities and somehow they managed.

not very helpful

sydthebeat · 19-04-2019 9:51am

jay28 wrote: »

So our planning permission has went in once more today having been refused a few months ago.
My wife qualifies for the local needs

The main reason we were rejected was we own our own house and they said our housing needs are me

Has anyone managed to get planning permission who already own a house?

different councils have different interpretations of the 'local need' policy.

Planning authorities im familiar with would consider your local need met by "having owned, or been granted permission for, a dwelling in a rural area of the county"

what local authority are you looking at jay28?

jay28 · 19-04-2019 10:03am

sydthebeat wrote: »

different councils have different interpretations of the 'local need' policy.

Planning authorities im familiar with would consider your local need met by "having owned, or been granted permission for, a dwelling in a rural area of the county"

what local authority are you looking at jay28?

It would be Wexford county council. The frustrating thing is that we thought we were doing the right thing by purchasing a house and providing security for our family, if we had of known owning a house would rule us our of building in s local area we would of just rented.

I guess time will tell

sydthebeat · 19-04-2019 10:22am

jay28 wrote: »

It would be Wexford county council. The frustrating thing is that we thought we were doing the right thing by purchasing a house and providing security for our family, if we had of known owning a house would rule us our of building in s local area we would of just rented.

I guess time will tell

ive had a quick look through wexfords 2013-2019 development plan and there doesnt appear to be any prescribed restriction to anyone having owned a previous house.... though that doesnt mean that the planners do not enforce such an understanding of "local need"

if thats how wexford planners view the policy in the particular zoning of your site... your only option may be to go as far as An Bord Pleanala for a determination.

jay28 · 19-04-2019 10:30am

sydthebeat wrote: »

ive had a quick look through wexfords 2013-2019 development plan and there doesnt appear to be any prescribed restriction to anyone having owned a previous house.... though that doesnt mean that the planners do not enforce such an understanding of "local need"

if thats how wexford planners view the policy in the particular zoning of your site... your only option may be to go as far as An Bord Pleanala for a determination.

Thanks for that, I suppose they look at each case individually, if we have to we will go An Bord Pleanala, hopefully it won't come to that.

Thanks again

Reputable Rog · 19-04-2019 10:40am

jay28 wrote: »

Thanks for that, I suppose they look at each case individually, if we have to we will go An Bord Pleanala, hopefully it won't come to that.

Thanks again

The policy as set out in the Wexford Development plan is distinctly unclear. Housing need is not defined in the plan.
Attend a Planning clinic and tease out the options. Another option is to apply for outline permission and try and establish the principle of development on a site.

jay28 · 19-04-2019 2:30pm

Reputable Rog wrote: »

The policy as set out in the Wexford Development plan is distinctly unclear. Housing need is not defined in the plan.
Attend a Planning clinic and tease out the options. Another option is to apply for outline permission and try and establish the principle of development on a site.

We applied for a pre planning meeting, 8 weeks passed and we heard nothing back, so our local Td inquired for us, they said we didn't need a planning meeting, we just had to address the issues for which we we're rejected first time around.

They said our housing needs were met, and that my wife showed she went to school etc there but never proved she lived there.
Also there was an issue with the size of the first site.
All above issues have been addressed.
We have letters this time around from local priest, youth club, schools etc and also have a larger 1 acre site with is down in the hollow and can't be seen.

Anyway it's just a waiting game now, hopefully they will look at our circumstances possitivly

weshtawake · 23-04-2019 3:51pm

Planning Question - reposting (no reply to the original!)

I am considering buying a site on the outskirts of Galway (within the city bounds).
There is a large old style galvanised hay shed on the site. My question is will it be easier to get PP by informing the authority that I would be knocking the shed and replacing with a dwelling. Note that this is my first house - I am currently renting.

sydthebeat · 23-04-2019 4:35pm

weshtawake wrote: »

Planning Question - reposting (no reply to the original!)

I am considering buying a site on the outskirts of Galway (within the city bounds).
There is a large old style galvanised hay shed on the site. My question is will it be easier to get PP by informing the authority that I would be knocking the shed and replacing with a dwelling. Note that this is my first house - I am currently renting.

no... it will make no difference at all

froggy1985 · 05-06-2019 9:14am

Any feedback on this would be appreciated.

Myself and my wife recently purchased a site subject to planning. The pre-planning process was the council calling our architect and we had no input whatsoever, the feedback we received was very brief.

Ultimately the council have said that they "may" consider this backland development and refuse an application due to the fact that the site is behind another site which "may" be used for development in future. There are no houses on this land currently and is separated from our site by a very tall and dense mature tree line and ditch. We have spoken to the landowner of the adjoining site (originally with a view to buying it) and he has no intention whatsoever of selling this land for development, or any other reason, at any point, as it is used for farming. He also has no objection to us building behind it.

I'm wondering if anyone has any experience with anything similar (backlands) and how we might reduce the chance of being refused a full planning application on this basis, or if I am completely goosed if this was the council's first reaction..?

Would asking the adjoining landholder to agree to sterilisation of the "problem" land (with a payment) make any difference? It is around 1 acre of a much larger overall landholding and I suspect he would have no issue agreeing to doing this, particularly if we greased his palm a little and covered any costs.

Thanks

jonny_b1 · 25-08-2019 8:57pm

We are sale subject to planning on a site. It's in a village,residential zoned area but sewage and water are quite a bit away from the site. Initial contact with Irish water indicates that with the base fee it includes 10m of connection. The actual connection would be almost 30 meters away at a cost of 500 per meter. So approx 15k total for the connection. We have been told also that as we are in a residential area no planning for a septic tank will be allowed.

Anyone come across anything similar?

hardybuck · 04-09-2019 12:38pm

Can you make further submissions on a planning application?

I.e. a submission is made, the planning authority ask for more information, can you submit further observations once this additional information has been provided by the applicant?

Reputable Rog · 04-09-2019 1:48pm

hardybuck wrote: »

Can you make further submissions on a planning application?

I.e. a submission is made, the planning authority ask for more information, can you submit further observations once this additional information has been provided by the applicant?

Yes

Jonybgud · 04-09-2019 3:25pm

hardybuck wrote: »

Can you make further submissions on a planning application?

I.e. a submission is made, the planning authority ask for more information, can you submit further observations once this additional information has been provided by the applicant?

Only if the FI is deemed to be significant and has to be advertised as such, otherwise, no.

Reputable Rog · 04-09-2019 3:51pm

Jonybgud wrote: »

Only if the FI is deemed to be significant and has to be advertised as such, otherwise, no.

Correct, I should have elaborated. It's a pretty poor provision though.

hardybuck · 04-09-2019 3:51pm

Jonybgud wrote: »

Only if the FI is deemed to be significant and has to be advertised as such, otherwise, no.

That's an interesting angle - thanks.

This involves an individual who appears a bit vexed about the whole application generally.

The FI was fairly straightforward stuff that doesn't need to be advertised as such. They've sent in a further submission to pick holes with the FI and also to refer back to things mentioned in the original observation that the Chief Executive's report had no issue with, in fact they've asked the planners to consider them again in their future considerations.

Reputable Rog · 04-09-2019 3:55pm

hardybuck wrote: »

That's an interesting angle - thanks.

This involves an individual who appears a bit vexed about the whole application generally.

The FI was fairly straightforward stuff that doesn't need to be advertised as such. They've sent in a further submission to pick holes with the FI and also to refer back to things mentioned in the original observation that the Chief Executive's report had no issue with, in fact they've asked the planners to consider them again in their future considerations.

Happens a lot, wouldn't worry about it. Don't know why there's a CE report for a Planning application though.

hardybuck · 04-09-2019 4:02pm

Reputable Rog wrote: »

Happens a lot, wouldn't worry about it. Don't know why there's a CE report for a Planning application though.

Apologies, the Planning Officer's Report as contained in the Record of Executive Business and Chief Executive's Order is what I should be referring to there.

Presumably they'll try and find something to go to ABP with as well.

Reputable Rog · 04-09-2019 8:26pm

hardybuck wrote: »

Apologies, the Planning Officer's Report as contained in the Record of Executive Business and Chief Executive's Order is what I should be referring to there.

Presumably they'll try and find something to go to ABP with as well.

Well if they submitted a valid objection they're perfectly entitled to, bit of an inconvenience but at least it stops spurious appeals.

cnocbui · 26-09-2019 3:29am

I bought a house in a rural location in 2002. I have been looking into selling it, but have run into a problem regarding the need for a certificate of compliance with planning requirements

The original Planning document calls for existing mature trees bordering the road and one boundary to be retained and for an entrance to be made between the trees. However, the planning site map shows the trees bordering the road as being 5-7m in from the road and the plan calls for removing the existing boundary wall, where trees permit , and creating a new boundary wall set back from the road.

The trees actually are only back from the road by the thickness of the original field boundary wall. The plan showing a set back road fronting boundary wall with trees behind it is unachievable, given the requirement to retain the trees, which are actually right on the road.

Removing the 6 large mature trees, existing wall and then excavating the ground, which is a good 0.8m or so higher than the road level and then building a new boundary wall would be a large and significant undertaking. I think doing that would significantly spoil the amenity and be ecologically destructive.

Who should I talk to about this and what do you think is the likely outcome?

sydthebeat · 26-09-2019 7:42am

Talk to the roads engineers about the required sight lines in that road at that point.

Check to see what you have.

If you haven't the required sight lines, make an application to alter your entrance / boundary to achieve same.

Do the work, get the certificate.

Sell the house.

realflash1982 · 22-10-2019 11:28am

Looking for some planning advice but appreciate it differs by authority.

It has been over a year now since we had a pre-plan meeting with our local coco about a site in a rural area.

The pre-plan meeting was favourable and we received an acknowledgment letter outlining what was needed to support a planning application.

Sight lines, prove local need, Irish Water Pre Connection agreement, Demonstrate waste water can be treated.

It was also mentioned that our site was 50m from an area of greater sensitivity and an AA report may be required.

We took on board the AA report suggestion and went and got it, and thankfully it came back all clear.

It was also stressed to us in the meeting that no longer is it acceptable to include letters from local schools and GAA clubs to prove our local need, it needed to be concrete evidence, government letters, current lease agreements etc, folio maps of home place.

We put together a comprehensive local need document and submitted a planning application earlier this year.

We received confirmation of our refusal a number of weeks ago.

The first issue was under the rural housing policy. It turns out they could not use our local need document as it contained information that was marked as private.

Secondly they have refused our application under 'linear development'. This is a new issue that they have brought in and it was not a problem brought up or mentioned in the pre-plan. They are now saying that the this cannot be addressed even though the sites are infill sites and not extension.

We asked to speak with them to address the issues raised and we were advised to wait the four weeks after refusal for the appeal process to pass. Now we are being told a direct no on a second application, and our appeal window has gone.

Surely there must be some accountability ? We have spent thousands based on the initial favourable pre-plan, only for something new to be raised on our refusal and now being told we should never have even applied.

At a complete loss

Jonybgud · 22-10-2019 12:05pm

You most certainly can make another planning application, try to address the issues they refused you on, the housing need (use school and local letters even if the LA don't regard them ABP may do so).

The council will most likely refuse again but you can appeal it this time and explain to the bord that you would have appealed the first time but the LA prevented you from doing so.

rayjdav · 22-10-2019 1:39pm

Jonybgud wrote: »

The council will most likely refuse again but you can appeal it this time and explain to the bord that you would have appealed the first time but the LA prevented you from doing so.

That is confusing??

How did the LA prevent them from appealing?

Jonybgud · 22-10-2019 2:38pm

I don't see the confusion. I've seen LA's do this before now.

They refuse planning, they won't take a sit down to discuss it before you make an appeal, they ask you to wait the 4 weeks and then refuse to discuss it. It's disgusting behaviour, very sneaky, sly and underhanded and makes it look like there are lots of refusals on the one site.

realflash1982 · 22-10-2019 3:17pm

Jonybgud wrote: »

I don't see the confusion. I've seen LA's do this before now.

They refuse planning, they won't take a sit down to discuss it before you make an appeal, they ask you to wait the 4 weeks and then refuse to discuss it. It's disgusting behaviour, very sneaky, sly and underhanded and makes it look like there are lots of refusals on the one site.

I can't say if it was intentional or not but we put in the call on day one after refusal to have a chat, we were told to call back in 4 weeks when they could discuss it with us, there was no mention of us wasting our time or anything.

Called back in the day after the 4 weeks were up to be told it does not look like we can address the issue.

Pretty frustrating, we would have had excellent grounds to appeal one of the reasons for refusal but instead tried to stay on side with them by avoid ABP.

Gumbo · 22-10-2019 9:00pm

Jonybgud wrote: »

I don't see the confusion. I've seen LA's do this before now.

They refuse planning, they won't take a sit down to discuss it before you make an appeal, they ask you to wait the 4 weeks and then refuse to discuss it. It's disgusting behaviour, very sneaky, sly and underhanded and makes it look like there are lots of refusals on the one site.

They are legally not allowed sit or talk or discuss the application with you during the appeal period.

This is a well known fact and the agent should have explained this to you.

rayjdav · 23-10-2019 12:10am

Jonybgud wrote: »

I don't see the confusion. I've seen LA's do this before now.

They refuse planning, they won't take a sit down to discuss it before you make an appeal, they ask you to wait the 4 weeks and then refuse to discuss it. It's disgusting behaviour, very sneaky, sly and underhanded and makes it look like there are lots of refusals on the one site.

Bad information to the client by agent tbh. Procedure is there for all to follow. There is information attached to any decision issued on the appeals procedure on how/when/what to do if you disagree with outcome. Nowhere on the info sheet does it say "come in and have a chat". If this was the case we would all do it and save months waiting for ABP. As above, council cannot discuss live case in 4 week period.

Jonybgud · 23-10-2019 8:36am

Thanks for the above information.

Is it possible that you could direct me to the section of the planning and development act that legally stops a meeting between applicant and planner within the 4 week appeals period? It would be very helpful to correct my own interpretation.

Everyday we learn something new.

woohoo!!! · 24-10-2019 3:10pm

There's no legal impediment in the planning act re the 4 week appeal period. It is practice that after a decision no council will talk to the applicant while the appeal period is live. They can afterwards but this can just be a phone call, there's no obligation to set up a sit down meeting.

As regards private information to confirm local needs, you need to redact the private information on a letter say from Revenue, they just want the address and a date, confirming you have lived there since whatever date. They don't want and cannot make public the details of the letter from Revenue, as in that info is private and GDPR rules.

Planning issues - post them here MOD WARNING post #1

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