Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all,
Vanilla are planning an update to the site on April 24th (next Wednesday). It is a major PHP8 update which is expected to boost performance across the site. The site will be down from 7pm and it is expected to take about an hour to complete. We appreciate your patience during the update.
Thanks all.

rsa supporting e-scooters

1…1112141617…38

Comments

  • #392
    1bryan
    Registered Users Posts: 815 ✭✭✭1bryan


    Hurrache wrote: »
    I've, and I'm sure many here, have overtaken e-scooters. On the argument of speed being a basis for insurance requirements, should we have to be insured?

    What if we promise to stay at a reduced speed, do we get freebies?

    Do you 2 not realise that 'regulations' already exist, albeit not enforced as much as they could be, but not to the much more detrimental affect of not enforcing road traffic laws against motorists, who break road traffic laws to a much greater extent than cyclists?

    I think they're being self-propelled, rather than speed per se, is a compelling enough argument to require a licence, registration, and insurance.

    Regulations do exist yes. They prohibit the use of e-scooters.


  • #393
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,443 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    1bryan wrote: »
    regulated e-bikes and e-scooters are not comparable. It is a separate argument. Regulated e-bikes have power-assist to a max of 25 km/h. E-scooters are fully self-propelled.

    Regulated e-bikes, in my experience, have been a great addition to this city. Tbh, I don't see why unregulated e-bikes or e-scooters are needed at all.

    They are very comparable, in fact every issue you have flagged with scooters is one that has been flagged with ebikes. Through very little regulation though, ebikes are somehow OK to you but escooters are not. Most ebikes and escooters have equivalent speeds, ebikes being faster in many cases. There are a few from both sides that are way faster, these are illegal for ebikes and should be illegal for escooters once regulation is brought in.

    So, if regulations are brought in that are equivalent for escooters as the regs for ebikes, will you be okay with them? You asked for regulations but when I put up a list of possible ones you don't respond. My understanding is you won't give an opinion on potential regulations until the government publishes final regulations? Not much of a discussion site if you won't engage in the conversation. Imagine for a moment that I got to draft them, and I put these forward, what would you disagree or agree with if these were the final Government rules brought in.

    - illegal on the footpath, gardai would sieze as well as issuing a fine for anyone using one on a footpath.
    - they have a motor and are unaided, put an exemption to road tax and registration for those that are limited to a speed of 25kmph, and under a certain weight. Gardai as always can seize, like they do with bikes, if they feel they are being presented with false information.
    - allow them access to use bike paths as an exception to other motorised vehicles
    - all other laws in line with motor bikes and cyclists
    - all users after readers dusk must have a front and rear light mounted on their person, at waist height or above. Failure to abide leads to a FPN like it does with cyclists.

    I would love to hear a discussion other than your anecdotes as they can be applied to almost any vehicle type in a modern city from experience.


  • #394
    marcos_94
    Registered Users Posts: 346 ✭✭marcos_94


    1bryan wrote: »
    Tbh, I don't see why unregulated e-bikes or e-scooters are needed at all.

    Thats your issue. It doesnt make sense to you why someone would want an e-scooter because you already cycle. I was considering an e-scooter for commuting because my commute is long enough and I didnt have access to shower facilities.

    You must also take into consideration that some people dont like cycling and dont want to do exercise on their way to work, so an e-scooter offers an alternative mode of transport to these people.


  • #395
    1bryan
    Registered Users Posts: 815 ✭✭✭1bryan


    CramCycle wrote: »
    You asked for regulations but when I put up a list of possible ones you don't respond.

    I did respond. At least twice.


  • #396
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,288 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    if you work in an office that is say 3km from the nearest railway station, an e-scooter could easily save you a lot of time every day.
    a 6km round trip on foot would take probably an hour or more; on an e-scooter averaging 20km/h would do it in 20 minutes.


  • Advertisement
  • #397
    Stark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,891 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    marcos_94 wrote: »
    Thats your issue. It doesnt make sense to you why someone would want an e-scooter because you already cycle. I was considering an e-scooter for commuting because my commute is long enough and I didnt have access to shower facilities.

    You must also take into consideration that some people dont like cycling and dont want to do exercise on their way to work, so an e-scooter offers an alternative mode of transport to these people.



    I'd say a huge proportion of scooter users are those that take public transport most of the way but are faced with a couple of kms walk when they get off the bus/train.


  • #398
    plodder
    Registered Users Posts: 7,124 ✭✭✭plodder


    Not being able to store them in the office, or charge them could be a problem for commuters, but I think they are a good idea on balance. I've never used one but they look to me more risky to their users than bikes are, so I wonder if there should be a minimum age limit.


  • #399
    marcos_94
    Registered Users Posts: 346 ✭✭marcos_94


    plodder wrote: »
    Not being able to store them in the office, or charge them could be a problem for commuters, but I think they are a good idea on balance. I've never used one but they look to me more risky to their users than bikes are, so I wonder if there should be a minimum age limit.

    The scooter s fold up so can very easily be stored under your desk, or against a wall. They normally have a range of at least 25km so charging in work may also not be an issue as they can be charged at home. I think the latest Xiaomi e-scooter has a range of 45km so would probably only need a charge once a week


  • #400
    plodder
    Registered Users Posts: 7,124 ✭✭✭plodder


    marcos_94 wrote: »
    The scooter s fold up so can very easily be stored under your desk, or against a wall. They normally have a range of at least 25km so charging in work may also not be an issue as they can be charged at home. I think the latest Xiaomi e-scooter has a range of 45km so would probably only need a charge once a week
    Yes, agreed about charging but a previous poster mentioned they weren't allowed store it in their office. I think the concern was to do with battery fire risk and that's probably down to quality standards.


  • #401
    Stark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,891 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    plodder wrote: »
    Yes, agreed about charging but a previous poster mentioned they weren't allowed store it in their office.

    Co-working space I was in (Huckletree) wouldn't allow them in the main building as they were a fire hazard apparently. Had to be kept in the car park.


  • Advertisement
  • #402
    mulbot
    Registered Users Posts: 1,794 ✭✭✭mulbot


    1bryan wrote: »
    I spent some time in Miami last year where there are 2 e-scooter share schemes in operation (uber being one, spin being the other). I witnessed someone crashing into the side of a parked car, and someone else clipping a pedestrian. The majority of e-scooter use there was on the footpath, not on the road.

    So, I have experienced an area where they are commonly used. In that case the issue wasn't so much as their co-existence with cyclists, but in society in general.

    The area I was in had a large university nearby. The majority of e-scooter users were college kids, and the scooters were the absolute bane of everyone else there.

    So have I. I spend most of the summer every year in Tallinn where they are widely used and haven't witnessed any issues. They are everywhere there, designated drop off and pick up areas, the city has benefitted massively from their use.


  • #403
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,741 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    Do people bring e-scooters into their place of work? Most of them are foldable, I think, and would fit under a desk? Possibly a mild fire hazard if you charge them at work.

    I'd prefer an electric Brompton if I were looking for a sweat-free trip to work and didn't have secure parking. I think the operative life would be massively longer. But the price difference is extremely large.

    EDIT: a lot of that has already been said, in the time I started typing it ...


  • #404
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,256 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    if you work in an office that is say 3km from the nearest railway station, an e-scooter could easily save you a lot of time every day.
    a 6km round trip on foot would take probably an hour or more; on an e-scooter averaging 20km/h would do it in 20 minutes.

    I don’t think you’d get those speeds. Looking at my ride history on lime. The average speeds is around
    8-10 kmh. You need to stop start , accelerate up to 20km.


  • #405
    Thargor
    Registered Users Posts: 17,865 ✭✭✭✭Thargor


    Amazing how that one user has been both knocked to the ground in an e-scooter assault and witnessed multiple incidents of e-scooter related carnage on the streets aswell...


  • #406
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,256 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    marcos_94 wrote: »
    The scooter s fold up so can very easily be stored under your desk, or against a wall. They normally have a range of at least 25km so charging in work may also not be an issue as they can be charged at home. I think the latest Xiaomi e-scooter has a range of 45km so would probably only need a charge once a week

    I’d say the realistic range in many is 25km. The latest may have 45km but that would be in the minority


  • #407
    liamog
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,793 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    mulbot wrote: »
    So have I. I spend most of the summer every year in Tallinn where they are widely used and haven't witnessed any issues. They are everywhere there, designated drop off and pick up areas, the city has benefitted massively from their use.

    Paris is similar now, they implemented rules last Sepetember. A number of the city car parking spaces were converted to scooter boxes. They are approx every 250 meters. I'm pretty sure the shared scooter operator is fined if they are abandonded outside of these area's and will trace it back to the last renter. Lime ask you to post a photo of where you park to ensure compliance.


  • #408
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,256 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    liamog wrote: »
    Paris is similar now, they implemented rules last Sepetember. A number of the city car parking spaces were converted to scooter boxes. They are approx every 250 meters. I'm pretty sure the shared scooter operator is fined if they are abandonded outside of these area's and will trace it back to the last renter. Lime ask you to post a photo of where you park to ensure compliance.

    Lime and others use geo location to block you from parking in certain areas, they also apply speed restrictions on some areas.


  • #409
    liamog
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,793 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    CramCycle wrote: »
    - all users after readers dusk must have a front and rear light mounted on their person, at waist height or above. Failure to abide leads to a FPN like it does with cyclists.

    I agree with all your other regulations, this one I think deserves further discussion. Most scooters come fitted with a handlebar front light and a rear light. I believe it's probably good enough to make the operator visible on the road. The low mounted rear light isn't ideal, but it mainly becomes a visibility problem when you are already on top of the operator. By this point if you are travelling faster than the scooter you will already be aware of the from a distance.


  • #410
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,741 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    There is a mininum-distance-from-ground stipulation for lights of bikes in Irish law. It's about 35cm.

    I guess they might take that into account, if they ever get around to regulating e-scooters. Obviously, as pointed out, the front light is unproblematic.


  • #411
    liamog
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,793 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    tomasrojo wrote: »
    There is a mininum-distance-from-ground stipulation for lights of bikes in Irish law. It's about 35cm.

    I guess they might take that into account, if they ever get around to regulating e-scooters. Obviously, as pointed out, the front light is unproblematic.

    It's not ideal, but I think it's better to have the light on the back that's always present due to CE regulations, than to rely on operators to strap a light to their back.


  • Advertisement
  • #412
    LillySV
    Registered Users Posts: 1,750 ✭✭✭LillySV


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    mod note - no backseat moderation please.

    LillySV - can you please read the charter of the forum, especially regarding negativity towards cyclists, and please go somewhere else if you've nothing constructive to say?
    thank you

    Well lads, I don’t understand the problem with my post? I just stated a fact.... that for everyone’s safety everyone should be regulated on the road and given training to ensure they aren’t a risk to either themselves or others? And then society should ensure that they cycle/drive in a safe manner and repercussions if not ... that’s the only way people learn . I’ve no problems with cyclists or e scooters.... but they aren’t above the law


  • #413
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,741 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    LillySV wrote: »
    Well lads, I don’t understand the problem with my post?
    The charter's here, if that helps:
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056113049


  • #414
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,443 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    liamog wrote: »
    Maybe you haven't actually experienced an area where legalised scooters and cycles are able to mix. They travel at approx the same speed as commuting cyclist, it would be somewhat dangerous to implement a system where we had a lane of bikes doing between 25 km/h to 35 km/h next to a set of scooters hogging the left hand side of a general traffic lane doing between 20 km/h and 25 km/h. Or perhaps your suggestion is that we move cycle lanes closer to the center of the road and allow the slower e-scooters to occupy the area closer to the curb as they are slightly slower than the cycles?
    Very few escooters go as fast as people here make out, I base this on having overtaken loads but not ever having been overtaken by one. Except the uni scooter guy on the N11. I clocked his speed at about 23kmph uphill but he has been the fastest. I know there are faster but they certainly are not common at the minute.
    1bryan wrote: »
    I spent some time in Miami last year where there are 2 e-scooter share schemes in operation (uber being one, spin being the other). I witnessed someone crashing into the side of a parked car, and someone else clipping a pedestrian. The majority of e-scooter use there was on the footpath, not on the road.
    I have crashed into a parked car on a bike, should bikes be banned. I have watched joggers run full tilt into cars and buses, should running be banned. I have seen pedestrians shouldering each other, one guy once cleared someone else out of it with a shoulder, should walking be banned. Wait a minute, should anyone be allowed out due to the reckless behaviour of a few?
    So, I have experienced an area where they are commonly used. In that case the issue wasn't so much as their co-existence with cyclists, but in society in general.
    So maybe if they pushed for them to be used in cycle lanes it would be OK here? My memory of Miami was that everyone blended with each other, beach cruisers, roller blades, pedestrians, all without much issue.
    The area I was in had a large university nearby. The majority of e-scooter users were college kids, and the scooters were the absolute bane of everyone else there.
    So because some people were d1cks in nother country, we shouldn't look at it here? Have you seen there attitude to drink driving, I wouldn't take America as a good place to base my opinions of any form of transport TBH.
    1bryan wrote: »
    agreed on Dublin bikes, but at least the areas they are in are somewhat confined. I have seen some crazy behaviour on them, and there is definitely an issue to be addressed there.
    But it is an issue with all transport modes, something that enforcement and an increased Garda presence would help with.
    1bryan wrote: »
    I think they're being self-propelled, rather than speed per se, is a compelling enough argument to require a licence, registration, and insurance.
    Why is speed not the issue? are you saying ebikes that could do over 50kmph would be ok as they are not self propelled? Why a license? Hasn't improved road safety, just makes it more difficult to get access to legally use. Registration would cost more than the vehicle is worth and no insurance company would touch them as the admin costs alone would make it unattractive.


  • #415
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,443 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    1bryan wrote: »
    I did respond. At least twice.
    No you didn't, not to mine anyway, the only responses I could see from you were as follows
    Until and unless that list is finalised, I'd be hesitant to say whether I agree with their legalisation, or not.
    you are throwing out a generic term like 'regulation' without defining it, and are expecting me to agree or disagree?


  • #416
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,288 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    LillySV wrote: »
    I watch numerous cyclists cycle through read lights, cycle on footpaths, cycle through pedestrian crossings without giving way to pedestrians... appalling carry on .... e scooters will be the same. Both groups should be given mandatory training to make themselves safer on the road ....should they be made wear bibs with registration number plate for the license holder also so they can be easily identified and reported for dangerous/careless driving.
    for the record, the charter explicitly forbids needless negativity, and your points above fall into this category. they're tired old tropes trotted out about cyclists, which do not hold up to scrutiny
    Unfortunately for you, these are the sort of comments usually made by non-cyclists who arrive in here with a grievance about cyclists and people will read your comments in that vein, and the discussion goes nowhere
    If you have any issue with this, please follow up with me on PM, not in the thread


  • #417
    marcos_94
    Registered Users Posts: 346 ✭✭marcos_94


    CramCycle wrote: »
    Why is speed not the issue? are you saying ebikes that could do over 50kmph would be ok as they are not self propelled? Why a license? Hasn't improved road safety, just makes it more difficult to get access to legally use. Registration would cost more than the vehicle is worth and no insurance company would touch them as the admin costs alone would make it unattractive.

    To add to this, with regards to the license, it would more than likely be implemented in the same way that anyone with a license for cars can drive mopeds under 50cc. So, therefore, it would be meaningless to require a license, unless you (1bryan) somehow believe that these scooters require a separate category and are more dangerous than a 50cc moped.


  • #418
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,443 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    liamog wrote: »
    I agree with all your other regulations, this one I think deserves further discussion. Most scooters come fitted with a handlebar front light and a rear light. I believe it's probably good enough to make the operator visible on the road. The low mounted rear light isn't ideal, but it mainly becomes a visibility problem when you are already on top of the operator. By this point if you are travelling faster than the scooter you will already be aware of the from a distance.

    True, like all regs, it needs work. Handlebar mounted one, white, makes perfect sense. Rear one, which I only found out years after lights were first introduced to me is not the most important of the two, is something that needs more discussion. I suppose if its fitted to the scooter, it makes it easier for a Garda to decide that it is non regulation is needs be. On the same note, I'd think if a Garda popped someone on a bike who had a light on his helmet and bag rather than on the frame, it would be a bit harsh. So long as they have a decent front and rear light I'd be happy but yes, I 'd be fine with that suggested change.


  • #419
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,741 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    If you really want to get into regulations, a lot of bike rear lights don't meet the regulations. They're too small, and if attached to the seat post they are attached to the bike at a point too far from the rear of the bike.

    Obviously, this stuff isn't very important, but the regulations are really out of date. They're stipulated in Imperial, for a start.


  • #420
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,443 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    tomasrojo wrote: »
    If you really want to get into regulations, a lot of bike rear lights don't meet the regulations. They're too small, and if attached to the seat post they are attached to the bike at a point too far from the rear of the bike.

    Obviously, this stuff isn't very important, but the regulations are really out of date. They're stipulated in Imperial, for a start.
    Very true, I forgot about all that stuff about the size of the light etc. Technically I imagine 99.9% of lights are a breach of regulations, but only 5% are below the aim of the regulation standards in regards visibility and usefulness.


  • Advertisement
  • #421
    LillySV
    Registered Users Posts: 1,750 ✭✭✭LillySV


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    for the record, the charter explicitly forbids needless negativity, and your points above fall into this category. they're tired old tropes trotted out about cyclists, which do not hold up to scrutiny
    Unfortunately for you, these are the sort of comments usually made by non-cyclists who arrive in here with a grievance about cyclists and people will read your comments in that vein, and the discussion goes nowhere
    If you have any issue with this, please follow up with me on PM, not in the thread

    where was the negativity , I stated that more regulation was required to reduce road deaths.... that’s not negativity..... the negativity only comes about when you and your friend decided ye don’t like my suggestions. I’ve seen dangerous cyclists, bikers, car drivers... there is mandatory lessons and testing for bikers and car drivers which has shown to reduce road deaths... so surely lessons for cyclists and e scooterists would again further reduce incidents


Advertisement