Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all,
Vanilla are planning an update to the site on April 24th (next Wednesday). It is a major PHP8 update which is expected to boost performance across the site. The site will be down from 7pm and it is expected to take about an hour to complete. We appreciate your patience during the update.
Thanks all.

Salary stagnation: how to survive it

13»

Comments

  • #62
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    TheDriver wrote: »
    You don't get the Dip allowance if you completed concurrent teacher training AFAIK.

    She gets scale plus Honours degree allowance. She qualified around 2007. Dipped soon after.

    Someone above added H Dip allowance to the above two. The h Dip allowance, so we were told, is an old qualification that hasn't applied in some time.


  • #63
    TheDriver
    Registered Users Posts: 12,386 ✭✭✭✭TheDriver


    Chinese whospers wrote: »
    She gets scale plus Honours degree allowance. She qualified around 2007. Dipped soon after.

    Someone above added H Dip allowance to the above two. The h Dip allowance, so we were told, is an old qualification that hasn't applied in some time.

    Is there confusion over the HDip which is done before you can get a job in post primary or doing the dip in primary which is done during your first year of paid employment?


  • #64
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    Chinese whospers wrote: »
    Who qualifies for this rate? It's not for those that simply do the H Dip. As I said, it's archaic.

    As for the other points :rolleyes:

    If :rolleyes: is the best you can come back with your position must be pretty weak.


  • #65
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    salonfire wrote: »
    Using the issue of part time hours to justify higher salaries, how convenient.
    What about those that start with full hours (some 80% of teachers according to a recent HEA survey), would you reduce that 80k accordingly?

    The focus should be ensuring proper job positions for the new teachers, not using their plight to increase salaries across the board.

    Have you got a link for that recent HEA survey? I think either their or your figures are incorrect.


  • #66
    salonfire
    Registered Users Posts: 3,078 ✭✭✭salonfire


    Link is here
    The Irish Times wrote:

    A recent survey from the Higher Education Authority found that education graduates have the highest starting salary of any group of graduates, earning €38,701 within nine months of graduation. They also had the best employment prospects of any group of undergraduates, with 81 per cent in full-time employment and 11 per cent in part-time employment.


  • Advertisement
  • #67
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    evolving_doors wrote: »
    If :rolleyes: is the best you can come back with your position must be pretty weak.


    Take it to an open forum and it can be discussed properly.


  • #68
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    TheDriver wrote: »
    You don't get the Dip allowance if you completed concurrent teacher training AFAIK.

    Yes you do. I'm a concurrent teacher.


  • #69
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    Chinese whospers wrote: »
    Are you a teacher?

    My wife is a pre 2011 teacher and doesn't get it. It's not the H Dip you're thinking of. I'd be delighted if you were right.

    I am a teacher and it is the HDip I'm thinking of.


    MDPVx4L


  • #70
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    Pre 2011 payscale with HDip for concurrent teacher training


  • #71
    Millem
    Registered Users Posts: 7,729 ✭✭✭Millem


    rainbowtrout wrote: »
    Pre 2011 payscale with HDip for concurrent teacher training

    I get it too and have a B.Ed.


  • Advertisement
  • #72
    TheDriver
    Registered Users Posts: 12,386 ✭✭✭✭TheDriver


    I thought that allowance was only for those who had to go and basically pay for an extra qualification to go teaching as opposed to concurrent B.Eds. Every day is a school day as they say.


  • #73
    Millem
    Registered Users Posts: 7,729 ✭✭✭Millem


    TheDriver wrote: »
    I thought that allowance was only for those who had to go and basically pay for an extra qualification to go teaching as opposed to concurrent B.Eds. Every day is a school day as they say.

    In my subject (home economics) there was no option for hdip.


  • #74
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    TheDriver wrote: »
    I thought that allowance was only for those who had to go and basically pay for an extra qualification to go teaching as opposed to concurrent B.Eds. Every day is a school day as they say.

    No, otherwise those that chose to go into teaching from the start would be penalised unfairly with the loss of the allowance even though they hold the qualification.

    Where a concurrent teacher does get penalised is the Hons/Pass degree. If a teacher got a pass degree in a concurrent teaching course, they also got the pass dip allowance.


  • #75
    Blaizes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 809 ✭✭✭Blaizes


    pg633 wrote: »
    Blaizes wrote: »
    Google Brightwater salary survey for 2019 and the top earners are on way more than 60k. 60k is respectable but no way the top, looking at those salaries quoted there, the top end is higher. This doesn’t surprise me I know a few people in those categories earning six figure sums.
    What relevance does a salary survey have: how many of these top jobs are there at each level, is it the same around the country etc.

    The only unbiased relevant statistics are from the CSO:
    https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/elca/earningsandlabourcostsannualdata2018/
    https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/elcq/earningsandlabourcostsq42018finalq12019preliminaryestimates/
    €60K is well above average compared to all workers €39K, fulltime workers €48K, ICT is top at €61K, Education average earnings is €43K

    You’re right, your figures are a much more reliable indicator.


  • #76
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,103 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    salonfire wrote: »
    Link is here

    From the Times article: They also had the best employment prospects of any group of undergraduates, with 81 per cent in full-time employment and 11 per cent in part-time employment.

    No mention of after how long, though it could also be the Times putting their spin on it.
    I have emailed the HEA and asked them for the actual data.


  • #77
    Blaizes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 809 ✭✭✭Blaizes


    spurious wrote: »
    salonfire wrote: »
    Link is here

    From the Times article: They also had the best employment prospects of any group of undergraduates, with 81 per cent in full-time employment and 11 per cent in part-time employment.

    No mention of after how long, though it could also be the Times putting their spin on it.
    I have emailed the HEA and asked them for the actual data.

    Good for you. That article is way too vague.


  • #78
    joebloggs32
    Registered Users Posts: 1,591 ✭✭✭joebloggs32


    Chinese whospers wrote: »
    Are you a teacher?

    My wife is a pre 2011 teacher and doesn't get it. It's not the H Dip you're thinking of. I'd be delighted if you were right.

    I have a degree allowance along with hdip. Second level with 16 years done.


  • #79
    SligoBrewer
    Registered Users Posts: 2,632 ✭✭✭SligoBrewer


    spurious wrote: »
    From the Times article: They also had the best employment prospects of any group of undergraduates, with 81 per cent in full-time employment and 11 per cent in part-time employment.

    No mention of after how long, though it could also be the Times putting their spin on it.
    I have emailed the HEA and asked them for the actual data.

    I'd also wager that a lot of teachers may have responded to that not knowing that not being on full hours = part time.


  • #80
    Blaizes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 809 ✭✭✭Blaizes


    SligoBrewer wrote: »
    spurious wrote: »
    From the Times article: They also had the best employment prospects of any group of undergraduates, with 81 per cent in full-time employment and 11 per cent in part-time employment.

    No mention of after how long, though it could also be the Times putting their spin on it.
    I have emailed the HEA and asked them for the actual data.

    I'd also wager that a lot of teachers may have responded to that not knowing that not being on full hours = part time.

    You’re spot on I’d say.


  • #81
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    salonfire wrote: »
    Link is here

    Nope I'm afraid that's incorrect. i should know because I was asked to fill in that HEA survey when I did a postgrad course (I had already been working for 8 years!). Similarly teachers already in employment who had done other post grad courses filled it out (lke the leadership and management course).

    If you dont believe me, go find where they get the figure of 38k, that's not even on the payscale in the 1st year... and keep in mind that's an average figure so there had to have been people earning above the 38k in their first year too. Impossible. Unless they all became Principals or Deputies in their first year:pac:


  • Advertisement
  • #82
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,103 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    I received a response from the HEA.
    • It was a survey of graduates of a particular year and as evolving doors says covered people in employment doing courses as well as PME people..
    • The general response rate to the survey was just 54%, falling to 44% among Education graduates. The figures are based on those responses.
    • The 'employment' covers employment in any sector, not necessarily the one the qualification was aimed at.

    There is a lot of it to read, but in terms of giving any true picture as regards employment prospects for teachers, it's not really that useful.

    I suspect the fine body of folk the Teaching Council would have figures that could be correlated with union figures. I will see do they respond to a query.

    The published HEA survey results are here, if anyone is interested.: https://hea.ie/assets/uploads/2019/02/HEA-Graduate-Outcomes-Survey.pdf (.pdf file)


  • #83
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    spurious wrote: »
    [*]The 'employment' covers employment in any sector, not necessarily the one the qualification was aimed at.

    A bit like the survey results from third level colleges which state '92% of our graduates are employed within 3 months of graduation. It just doesn't say how many of them are stacking shelves in the local supermarket to pay the bills and how many found a job related to their degree course.


  • #84
    Bobtheman
    Registered Users Posts: 2,631 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    gaiscioch wrote: »
    Looking at the Pre-2011 salary scale here I'm very close to landing on one of those salary points that don't change for years - i.e. no increment at all for 3 years, then an increment, then none for 4 more years, then an increment, then none for 4 further years. Then, you get one final increment where you will spend the rest of your teaching years without a salary increase. As retirement is currently 68, and will probably be at least 70 by the time I get there, that's a great number of years at the same final salary.

    What was the initial logic behind structuring pay points like that? It sounds very depressing to have no salary rise at all for years, which when inflation is taken into account sounds like your salary will in fact be decreasing in those years of ostensible 'stagnation'. Does reaching this point of staring at salary stagnation become a bit of a mid-life crisis for some teachers? Career change? Time to take early retirement? I'm certainly feeling older just thinking about being (almost!) at a place which once looked so far away. I googled for survival guides and blogs but to no avail. Is there any financial solace at all in these years, or advice to triumph over this financial disincentive to continue?
    It's the cost of living that's a bigger factor. Look at your expenses. Talk to other people and you will see items you consider to be essential are not.
    If you are finding yourself stretched do grinds or corrections
    We are still under FEMPI because we won't strike . Thus we just grab our favorite lubricant and assume the position. There will be no sizeable pay increases until we realise a long strike is only way forward. No pain no gain


  • #85
    Bobtheman
    Registered Users Posts: 2,631 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    Our pay scale (old)is longest in public sector. New entrants have no pension worth talking about and no timeline for ending multiple pay scales.
    Strike !


  • #86
    SligoBrewer
    Registered Users Posts: 2,632 ✭✭✭SligoBrewer


    Bobtheman wrote: »
    Our pay scale (old)is longest in public sector. New entrants have no pension worth talking about and no timeline for ending multiple pay scales.
    Strike !

    Ag fanacht ar an INTO agus an TUI mo chara.


  • #87
    Sir123
    Registered Users Posts: 311 ✭✭Sir123


    SligoBrewer wrote: »
    Ag fanacht ar an INTO agus an TUI mo chara.

    Tá an ceart agat SligoBrewer.


  • #88
    deiseindublin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,257 ✭✭✭deiseindublin


    SligoBrewer wrote: »
    Ag fanacht ar an INTO agus an TUI mo chara.
    Arís agus arís eile.


Advertisement