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2018 Woman's World Cup (London)

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Comments

  • #302
    Joe_ Public
    Registered Users Posts: 13,023 ✭✭✭✭Joe_ Public


    Strazdas wrote: »
    The exchequer take for one year is about €70bn in Ireland. An increase of funding of €1.5m for Olympic sports is not an outrageous amount. Compared to many countries, including our nearest neighbour, the amount of money we spend on sports funding is very much on the low side - it's not as if an increase is being announced on the back of massive funding.

    We only have one 50m swimming pool in the country, don't have an athletics track that could hold a major championship and no cycling velodrome. Let's keep things in some perspective.

    It's just the reality of things in Ireland, you'll always have to spend time justifying the outlay of relatively paltry amounts on sport despite the well advertised link between elite sport, participation rates and the level of general well being. I guess we are somewhere between the UK with its rather lavish investment in elite sport - just how many millions per medal? - and the US where there is virtually no Federal support of athletes whatsoever. But you only have to look at the US health care system to know their society is not exactly a model you'd wish to be copying.

    Funding will be found for the hockey teams - men's too - because they have earned it. That's just how the funding system of reward for achievement works. If they were individual athletes they'd be on podium grants, somewhere between 20 and 40k. Dont think team achievement on this scale has ever had to be accommodated before, so some rethinking has to be done. And perhaps it will have to come from somewhere else but so what. Boxing lost 200k after the debacle of the Rio Olympics. Funding can go up as well as down and hockeys has to resolutely go up in the next round of grants or else the system will be in disrepute.


  • #303
    cdeb
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,125 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    munchkin_utd wrote: »
    Horse racing gets 64million a year in subsidy, so you could shave a measly 1.5 million off that and still the millionaires will have plenty of taxpayer funded prizemoney to fight over.
    http://collegetribune.ie/horseracinggovtfunding/
    You could do the same with greyhound racing actually.

    The exchequer income figure quoted of €70bn is irrelevant if expenditure is €75bn btw.

    But still, I think several hundred thousand on one team is too much. Is there really a benefit in spending money to create a fully-pro hockey team?

    They absolutely shouldn't have to pay to enter the World Cup obviously. And they should expect some manner of recompense for giving up their time to represent the country at senior level (do they get any bonuses, incidentally)?

    But a fully-pro hockey team isn't really an end to itself, I think. Extra money would be far better spent across all grass-roots levels, encouraging more people to play and giving them better facilities. That should be the aim, I think. Quantity, not quality - the main benefit should be for the most, not the best.

    (And let's not forget that a main priority for government spending should be eating into our crippling national debt of course)


  • #304
    bobbyss
    Registered Users Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭bobbyss


    Some stupid questions now from someone not in the know.

    How many teams in the finals were full time professionals?

    What does a full time professional mean?

    Are we talking about the Irish team/squad being full time professional? Where would they play?


  • #305
    Joe_ Public
    Registered Users Posts: 13,023 ✭✭✭✭Joe_ Public


    bobbyss wrote: »
    Some stupid questions now from someone not in the know.

    How many teams in the finals were full time professionals?

    What does a full time professional mean?

    Are we talking about the Irish team/squad being full time professional? Where would they play?

    Don't know on the first question and the second probably varies between someone who is making a living from the sport and someone who is just being supported to train and rest full-time without having to worry about making ends meet at the end of the day. The latter part would cover whatever ambitions surround an Irish "professional" hockey set up I would say.

    You could probably look to Cricket Ireland as a model. They have a senior squad on central contracts who will all play club cricket, a few of them in England. Cricket has been able to manage this despite receiving far less government money than most other sports so you'd think it would be far from impossible for a sport like hockey to pull it off.


  • #306
    Strazdas
    Registered Users Posts: 17,959 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    bobbyss wrote: »
    Some stupid questions now from someone not in the know.

    How many teams in the finals were full time professionals?

    What does a full time professional mean?

    Are we talking about the Irish team/squad being full time professional? Where would they play?

    I'm no hockey expert but I believe we may have been the only amateur team in the competition ie. the girls all have full time day jobs (or are at school) and try and fit as much training as possible as well as getting time off from work in the run up to tournaments.

    Not sure how all the other full time teams work, whether players are on the payroll of professional hockey sides or are paid by their own hockey federation to be full time.


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  • #307
    Burkie1203
    Registered Users Posts: 11,099 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    munchkin_utd wrote: »
    Horse racing gets 64million a year in subsidy, so you could shave a measly 1.5 million off that and still the millionaires will have plenty of taxpayer funded prizemoney to fight over.
    http://collegetribune.ie/horseracinggovtfunding/

    Horse racing also creates and sustains thousands of jobs. I Remember years ago having an argument with a former work colleague over the tax scheme for athletes. His argument was how rugby players shouldn't be eligible etc. Leinster for example have grown hugely as an organisation and the large crowds help fuel the local economy. Horse racing does the exact same


  • #308
    citytillidie
    Registered Users Posts: 21,947 ✭✭✭✭citytillidie


    bobbyss wrote: »
    Some stupid questions now from someone not in the know.

    How many teams in the finals were full time professionals?

    What does a full time professional mean?

    Are we talking about the Irish team/squad being full time professional? Where would they play?

    There is a few Europeans countries with a pro hockey league like Netherlands, Germany and Belgium some of the girls will play there but most play club hockey in Ireland while keeping down a full time job or studying

    ******



  • #309
    Drifter50
    Registered Users Posts: 617 ✭✭✭Drifter50


    Joe_ Public wrote: »
    Don't know on the first question and the second probably varies between someone who is making a living from the sport and someone who is just being supported to train and rest full-time without having to worry about making ends meet at the end of the day. The latter part would cover whatever ambitions surround an Irish "professional" hockey set up I would say.

    You could probably look to Cricket Ireland as a model. They have a senior squad on central contracts who will all play club cricket, a few of them in England. Cricket has been able to manage this despite receiving far less government money than most other sports so you'd think it would be far from impossible for a sport like hockey to pull it off.

    Yes, you`re absolutely right, there is money washing around Cricket Ireland just now, pity the talent of the team does`nt represent that because we have real opportunities in cricket. Yes they squad are all on central contracts and it is unlikely we will see players defecting to England ever again.

    However in hockey, the issue is that you still have the blazers in the clubhouses controlling things and the bitching that goes on between the UHU (Ulster Hockey Union ) and the rest of Hockey Ireland based in Belfield stymies and blocks progress.

    What we need is another Warren Deutrom CEO of Cricket Ireland. He picked up CI, shook all the blazers out and reduced CI to a smooth lean running operation where things get done, money gets raised and used and progress is made every day.

    With respect to Jerome Piels the HI CEO, I have`nt heard anything in the media about him or how he plans to build on the girls fabulous achievements so I don`t think he is in the same mould as Deutrom but I remain to be convinced


  • #310
    Joe_ Public
    Registered Users Posts: 13,023 ✭✭✭✭Joe_ Public


    Drifter50 wrote: »
    Yes, you`re absolutely right, there is money washing around Cricket Ireland just now, pity the talent of the team does`nt represent that because we have real opportunities in cricket. Yes they squad are all on central contracts and it is unlikely we will see players defecting to England ever again.

    However in hockey, the issue is that you still have the blazers in the clubhouses controlling things and the bitching that goes on between the UHU (Ulster Hockey Union ) and the rest of Hockey Ireland based in Belfield stymies and blocks progress.

    What we need is another Warren Deutrom CEO of Cricket Ireland. He picked up CI, shook all the blazers out and reduced CI to a smooth lean running operation where things get done, money gets raised and used and progress is made every day.

    With respect to Jerome Piels the HI CEO, I have`nt heard anything in the media about him or how he plans to build on the girls fabulous achievements so I don`t think he is in the same mould as Deutrom but I remain to be convinced

    Be amazed if he was in the same mould as Warren Deutrom because very few are. I'd rate Deutrom and Gary Keegan, the ex-boxing guy, as the two best administrators we've ever had in Irish sport, at least in my time following it anyway. Guys with proper vision, purpose and leadership who are in it purely for the love and benefit of their sport and know what buttons to push and how to get the job done. Not nearly enough of these guys to go round unfortunately.

    I'm not that clued in to the hockey scene really. But I remember hearing stories about how kids, particularly girls in the greater Dublin region, were giving up the game in droves because there werent enough clubs to cater for the demand. I was hearing those stories 10 years ago or even more, so it seemed likely that there was great potential there for the sport to grow but that they needed some radical restructuring in order to facilitate it. Still seems to me they have some work to do in that regard, though not all that up to speed on developments admittedly.


  • #311
    feargale
    Registered Users Posts: 8,636 ✭✭✭feargale


    cdeb wrote: »
    "An extra few hundred thousand" is huge money for a bankrupt country to simply toss to a sport like women's hockey. I don't begrudge them extra funding, but I don't think you realise how much that it, or the uproar it'd (rightly) cause among other sports - men's hockey arguably being the most obvious one.

    Not to talk of the reaction of people on hospital trolleys.

    Strazdas wrote: »
    As I said further up, the country is showing strong economic growth at the moment which presumably the exchequer take is increasing year in, year out. It's not as if we are in the middle of a recession and the three year IMF bailout.

    There is huge uncertainty thanks to Brexit and the antics of the nutter in Washington. The markets detest uncertainty like nothing else, and the government is planning to set some aside for the rainy day.
    I would love to see hockey getting better funding, but I believe politicians should shut up about what they're going to do. Tell us about it when it's done. I saw the looks of wonderment on those girls' faces in Dame Street today when Shane Ross mentioned €1-5 million. In fact when you read through it he talked and said nothing. That's not a nice way to treat our heroes.


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  • #312
    Strazdas
    Registered Users Posts: 17,959 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    In terms of the actual teams at least, things seem to be going in the right direction. The men's team qualified for Rio and the women's team came within a shootout of also qualifying.

    You could argue that this week has been a far more significant event for the women than if they had qualified for Rio. Had they been at the Olympics, they would have gone largely unnoticed by the nation, not unless they had pulled off a famous win or two (especially with the distraction of many other sports and Irish athletes competing at the same time).

    Getting to a World Cup final and all the media focus that goes with it is much better for raising their profiles and the profile of the sport in Ireland. Hopefully they can build on this and qualifying for Tokyo would be great, now that people know who they are.


  • #313
    Drifter50
    Registered Users Posts: 617 ✭✭✭Drifter50


    So i guess now this particular odyssey is over, lets see how the girls achievement in reaching the World Cup final impacts the mens team when the Mens World Cup kicks off in Bhubaneswar in November. For one thing its not going to be cheap to send the squad there for a month. Also a tricky group awaits--- China, England and Australia.


  • #314
    feargale
    Registered Users Posts: 8,636 ✭✭✭feargale


    Drifter50 wrote: »
    So i guess now this particular odyssey is over, lets see how the girls achievement in reaching the World Cup final impacts the mens team when the Mens World Cup kicks off in Bhubaneswar in November. For one thing its not going to be cheap to send the squad there for a month. Also a tricky group awaits--- China, England and Australia.

    Current rankings:
    1. Australia
    7. England
    10. Ireland
    17. China.


  • #315
    Strazdas
    Registered Users Posts: 17,959 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Shane Ross announces that Hockey Ireland will receive €500,000 as part of the allocation

    http://www.hockey.ie/news-detail/10042596/

    Seems generous enough, seeing as it is a minority sport. Should definitely help the women's and men's teams in their quest to qualify for Tokyo.


  • #316
    Cork Boy 53
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,829 ✭✭✭Cork Boy 53


    Strazdas wrote: »
    Shane Ross announces that Hockey Ireland will receive €500,000 as part of the allocation

    http://www.hockey.ie/news-detail/10042596/

    Seems generous enough, seeing as it is a minority sport. Should definitely help the women's and men's teams in their quest to qualify for Tokyo.

    Is that amount just for 2019 though?


  • #317
    Strazdas
    Registered Users Posts: 17,959 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Cork Boy 53 wrote: »
    Is that amount just for 2019 though?

    I read somewhere during the week that it is extra funding for 2018 in fact, which would mean they get the money immediately rather than having to wait until next year (but they would already have a fair whack of high performance funding coming next year anyway).


  • #318
    Joe_ Public
    Registered Users Posts: 13,023 ✭✭✭✭Joe_ Public


    Its basically a giveaway, isn't it? Not that the minister has miraculously pulled the cash out from his hat, its merely a percentage of a total 12m government dividend that was allocated for sport (and well before the hockey team even set off for the world cup finals). It should have no bearing on what is handed out next year or the year after that. I would assume the 500K was reached by shaving off a percentage from what all the other sports were going to receive. Not that I'd begrudge the hockey teams a penny of what will be spent on them, earned it as far as I'm concerned.


  • #319
    Strazdas
    Registered Users Posts: 17,959 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Joe_ Public wrote: »
    Its basically a giveaway, isn't it? Not that the minister has miraculously pulled the cash out from his hat, its merely a percentage of a total 12m government dividend that was allocated for sport (and well before the hockey team even set off for the world cup finals). It should have no bearing on what is handed out next year or the year after that. I would assume the 500K was reached by shaving off a percentage from what all the other sports were going to receive. Not that I'd begrudge the hockey teams a penny of what will be spent on them, earned it as far as I'm concerned.

    I definitely wouldn't begrudge them anyway. It's only right that their achievement last week is honoured in some way and I'm sure nearly every sports fan wants to see them qualify for the Olympics now. If it means more money for them, so be it.


  • #320
    Cork Boy 53
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,829 ✭✭✭Cork Boy 53


    Strazdas wrote: »
    I definitely wouldn't begrudge them anyway. It's only right that their achievement last week is honoured in some way and I'm sure nearly every sports fan wants to see them qualify for the Olympics now. If it means more money for them, so be it.

    The problem would be if other sports bodies lose funding to the benefit of the hockey teams. In the past 10 days or so Irish sportspersons (if that is the right term) have won European Championships medals in athletics, swimming, rowing and gymnastics so the argument could be made that other sports should not have to lose out.


  • #321
    Joe_ Public
    Registered Users Posts: 13,023 ✭✭✭✭Joe_ Public


    Cork Boy 53 wrote: »
    The problem would be if other sports bodies lose funding to the benefit of the hockey teams. In the past 10 days or so Irish sportspersons (if that is the right term) have won European Championships medals in athletics, swimming, rowing and gymnastics so the argument could be made that other sports should not have to lose out.

    That's the thing when it comes to funding, though. No matter what anyone gets, its always going to be funding someone else could have got. You'll never make everyone happy. I think some of the hockey people thought all the funding was going to them when Ross first mentioned it, so they're probably not totally ecstatic about it either. To them its merely making up a tiny bit of the shortfall they feel they were unfairly denied up to that point.

    Funding team sports in relation to high performance is tricky and expensive and Sport Ireland are probably relieved they dont have to do it too much. Those other sports are well catered for individually. The likes of Barr, the O'Donovan bros, Annalise Murphy etc, all have set targets and know what they have to do to achieve them. The hockey players could argue they do the same work, make the same sacrifices but dont get the same rewards in terms of funding. Ultimately it took a fairly seismic performance of reaching a world final to get belated recognition for their efforts. Now the pressure is on the sport to use that money well and to cope with the pressure increased scrutiny brings. Thats how the system works I guess.


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