Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Journalism and cycling

12357334

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 16,402 ✭✭✭✭Trojan


    You're right...I wonder is this all a result of boardsie chat or if perhaps the cycling protest might have brought some previously silent individuals out of the woodwork.

    +1
    You're absolutely right, but I'd argue there's something positive about seeing the majority of responses coming from cyclists. The more coverage the cycling debate gets, the better. Take that Irish Times piece, for example. Pro-cyclist letter responses outnumbered the car driver's response 3 to 1.

    I think the simple response here on this thread has been super. There were 2, possibly 3 great letters that I think were motivated in part by this thread, as well as more by folks like me that were read but not published.

    IMO this is a very good thing. There's enough anti-cycling idiots getting air time and column inches, it's a massive positive to see calm, rational counter-arguments coming from cyclists. If this thread just resulted in that letters page it'd be a small victory, but if it encourages more - and continues to encourage more of the same in the future, that would be a significant positive.
    Tombo2001 wrote: »
    The thing about being a cyclist for me anyway is.....

    They all hate us anyway....

    ......why should we care what they think.

    Because the idiots are literally dangerous. They encourage unhinged drivers in multi-ton vehicles to take aggressive action against cyclists. If their arguments are left unchecked, they convince otherwise reasonable drivers that their point is valid. They influence decision-makers with what seems to be a general public opinion which results in further anti-cycling measures.

    I subscribe to the EFF (because American's digital rights are our digital rights). One thing they do very well, as you'd hope, is make it easy for people to contact decision makers.

    Like I said, I think it's super that there's been some letters sent in to the IT, emails to councilors (and to a lessor degree some rational comments posted to the Indo comments section) as a result of this thread, and it'd be great to see it continued.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    Moflojo wrote: »
    Here's a podcast Newstalk made about the protest on Monday. It's unbelievable, makes it sound like everyone at the protest was on the brink of being killed at any moment. The protest was so easy-going and jovial.

    http://www.newstalk.com/podcasts/Newstalk_Drive/Henry_McKean_on_Drive/160418/Henry_rides_a_bike_to_find_out_why_cyclists_want_EUR1BN

    "It was so scary!"

    "Ooh, this feels a bit lethal..."

    "A pedestrian just walked out in front of me!"

    Tbf I think that was him out in the traffic and not at the protest itself


  • Company Representative Posts: 26 Verified rep Green Party: Ossian Smyth


    I was on a Newstalk show a couple of weeks ago where they wanted to discuss helmets. All the guests were pro-cycling and we mostly talked about the joy of cycling and how everyone should try it.

    audio here:
    http://www.ossiansmyth.ie/newstalkcycling.mp3


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 382 ✭✭endagibson


    Pinch Flat wrote: »
    JD Mangan, on the other hand, believes motorists pay this mysterious "road tax" and makes the inexplicable link between insurance and infrastructure, overlooking of course that 22,000 cyclists have voluntary insurance through Cycling Ireland and that there's 100,000 (a figure that's likely to rise given the urgent state of the insurance market) uninsured drivers on our roads.
    I saw some numbers the other day that got me thinking on this. According to this Journal article, motor tax brings in approximately €1.1bn each year.

    This RSA document states that "The estimated cost of all road collisions reported to and recorded by, An Garda Síochána in 2012 was €773 million."

    So we're left with approximately €327m of motor tax funding. (overall road deaths have decreased. To counter that, the cost of everything has probably risen since 2012).

    Then I saw this article from 2014 that said "A total of €598 million has been allocated for the maintenance and improvement of our national, regional and local roads, which is broadly unchanged compared to last year."

    Now we have a deficit of -€271m.

    I'm confused. I thought that only motorists paid for the roads through tax. I'll dig a little further.

    This document says on page 3 that the following is spent:

    Roads - €751m
    Vehicle and Driver licensing expenses - €14.5m
    Road Safety Authority - €3.3m

    But that makes the position worse. Now we're -€442m.

    This budget statement from the Department of Transport (, Tourism and Sport) gives a Land Transport budget of €1.37bn. Out of this, "€555 million for roads maintenance and PPP projects"

    This is better, as it only leaves a deficit of -€228m.

    I realise the above is a mish-mash of different documents from different years, but I'm at work and I can't spend significant time on this. Whatever way I look at this, it looks like motor tax would cover the cost of roads if 70% of it wasn't spunked on cleaning up after motorised transport.

    Am I missing something? :confused:


  • Registered Users Posts: 132 ✭✭boardbeer


    endagibson wrote: »
    Am I missing something? :confused:
    You've only scratched the surface. Consider:
    * Cost of Garda Traffic Corps
    * Road-specific emergency
    * Tax concessions on car use
    * State fuel subsidies
    * Land use cost
    * Noise
    * Urban air pollution
    * Climate change
    * Congestion


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 935 ✭✭✭Roadhawk


    boardbeer wrote: »
    You've only scratched the surface. Consider:
    * Cost of Garda Traffic Corps
    * Road-specific emergency
    * Tax concessions on car use
    * State fuel subsidies
    * Land use cost
    * Noise
    * Urban air pollution
    * Climate change
    * Congestion

    Ah sure cycling solves all of that :rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 27,834 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    Roadhawk wrote: »
    Ah sure cycling solves all of that :rolleyes:

    6 out of 9 it very easily does, yes.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,000 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    endagibson wrote: »
    I saw some numbers the other day that got me thinking on this. According to this Journal article, motor tax brings in approximately €1.1bn each year.

    This RSA document states that "The estimated cost of all road collisions reported to and recorded by, An Garda Síochána in 2012 was €773 million."

    So we're left with approximately €327m of motor tax funding. (overall road deaths have decreased. To counter that, the cost of everything has probably risen since 2012).
    i'd seek clarification whether the estimated cost of €773m is a cost to the exchequer, or a cost to the economy.


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,261 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    i'd seek clarification whether the estimated cost of €773m is a cost to the exchequer, or a cost to the economy.

    Did a bit of digging on that. It's cost to the exchequer. Biggest contributor is Hospital A&E costs.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 27,834 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    Deedsie wrote: »
    Presumably it is the Garda Traffic corp that penalises rule breaking cyclists?

    I'm sure any garda can penalise a rule breaking cyclist, just as they can penalise any person for rule breaking no matter what their form of transport is.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 11,735 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    I'm not too surprised by those numbers showing a deficit after the negatives of motoring are subtracted from the revenue generated. There have been a few analyses lately in different countries showing that motoring is essentially subsidised.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 27,834 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    I feel like I'm on media watch today, the discussion is coming up on the Last Word now on Today FM.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    Did a bit of digging on that. It's cost to the exchequer. Biggest contributor is Hospital A&E costs.

    And more people cycling will mean fewer people going to hospital with heart attacks, diabetes, hypertension, clogged arteries. And fewer people driving will mean fewer people going to hospital with pollution-induced bronchitis and asthma.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 27,834 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    The Cork councillor on talking about it actually said "They don't even pay insurance". Pleb.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 27,834 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    And now he said there's a substantial number of troublesome cyclists that cyclist should have insurance. Tim Brosnan for all you Cork langers.

    "Road tax" was also used.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 382 ✭✭endagibson


    Roadhawk wrote: »
    Ah sure cycling solves all of that :rolleyes:
    Let's turn that around: which one of the following does utility cycling not at least reduce if not eliminate altogether?
    * Cost of Garda Traffic Corps
    * Road-specific emergency
    * Tax concessions on car use
    * State fuel subsidies
    * Land use cost
    * Noise
    * Urban air pollution
    * Climate change
    * Congestion


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    endagibson wrote: »
    Let's turn that around: which one of the following does utility cycling not at least reduce if not eliminate altogether?

    * Cost of Garda Traffic Corps
    * Road-specific emergency
    * Tax concessions on car use
    * State fuel subsidies
    * Land use cost
    * Noise
    * Urban air pollution
    * Climate change
    * Congestion

    Not to mention that it would enormously lessen the health bill, a huge proportion of which results from our obesogenic environment :p


  • Registered Users Posts: 97 ✭✭Rokta


    I wonder how many "cyclists" are also "motorists"..... Last time I checked I paid my road tax and I dare to use a bicycle for commuting...

    And before anybody starts mentioning insurance... they should first make sure that every motorist has one, 8% of them don't.... like the one that hit me recently and no, I was not on a bike, I was in my car.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 382 ✭✭endagibson


    Rokta wrote: »
    I wonder how many "cyclists" are also "motorists"..... Last time I checked I paid my road tax and I dare to use a bicycle for commuting...
    Indeed. I have a €280 a quarter paperweight sitting in the drive right now, only used at the weekends. :eek:

    In addition to all of the above, the roads that we do have in cities would not need to be so large and expensive. As the table below shows, roads for cars really are poor value.


    Cpfy05VWYAAFZqf.jpg:large


    It's been a while since I first saw that table and I believe the source is American. The currency would support that, but the origin and currency doesn't really matter. The logic would hold regardless of location.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,761 ✭✭✭Pinch Flat


    Rokta wrote: »
    I wonder how many "cyclists" are also "motorists"..... Last time I checked I paid my road tax and I dare to use a bicycle for commuting...

    And before anybody starts mentioning insurance... they should first make sure that every motorist has one, 8% of them don't.... like the one that hit me recently and no, I was not on a bike, I was in my car.

    Yep, I'm one as well - car stays at home Monday to Friday.

    The whole insurance thing I don't get, in terms of the motorists that argue that cyclists should have this. Usually they see it as a means to recompense them if a cyclist hits a wing mirror or scratches their car. No issue if a cyclist is negligent in this regard.

    But over 22,000 cyclists already have voluntary insurance - personal injury, medical expenses, time off work are usually at the forefront of people's minds who take it out. Not wing mirrors and paintwork.

    But as you've unfortunately experienced, uninsured drivers are a huge problem - 100,000 on the roads currently. Our cycling group was hit by a drunk motorist about 12 months ago - no insurance. Thankfully no one injured, but even if they had of been they'd have zero comeback against that driver.


  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,000 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    add me to the list of people who own a car but who do not use it to commute to work; but in my case i take public transport cos i'm lazy and i've yet to engineer a way of carrying an idiotically large laptop on my back without fear of it getting damaged, either in a physical spill, or liquid spill.


  • Registered Users Posts: 97 ✭✭Rokta


    Well there is a solution for uninsured drivers as long as the car is identified, the MIBI will take over for the uninsured driver.

    If a personal limited liability insurance would be offered in this country for a reasonable price (ha!) I probably would be the first to sign up. However this is limited to trade and certain professions while in other countries it is available for everybody.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,937 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    Rokta wrote: »
    Well there is a solution for uninsured drivers as long as the car is identified, the MIBI will take over for the uninsured driver.....
    Yes, but those of us who play the game legitimately are charged a levy on our policies to cover that.


  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 74,773 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Yes, but those of us who play the game legitimately are charged a levy on our policies to cover that.
    2 grand worth of damage to the car, whiplash for me, and setting my wider recovery back 12 months or so when my car was rammed (twice!) by an uninsured driver a couple of months back. Sorry guys but I'm another "claimant" that will end up pushing up the cost of motor insurance for everyone


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 382 ✭✭endagibson


    Beasty wrote: »
    when my car was rammed (twice!) by an uninsured driver
    How does that happen?


  • Registered Users Posts: 97 ✭✭Rokta


    Same here claiming through them.


  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 74,773 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    endagibson wrote: »
    How does that happen?
    Driver accelerated up behind me (probably within a metre or so) and backed off 3 times. 4th time they didn't back off quickly enough and rammed into the back of my car. I slowed to a halt, and they rammed into the back of my car again. I got out to remonstrate (fired up on adrenalin). Driver backed up and drove off.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,937 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    Beasty wrote: »
    Driver accelerated up behind me (probably within a metre or so) and backed off 3 times. 4th time they didn't back off quickly enough and rammed into the back of my car. I slowed to a halt, and they rammed into the back of my car again. I got out to remonstrate (fired up on adrenalin). Driver backed up and drove off.
    They probably did a lot more damage to their own vehicle that to that tank you drive! :D


  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 74,773 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    They probably did a lot more damage to their own vehicle that to that tank you drive! :D
    Don't reckon their car was worth the amount of damage done to mine. Did get a couple of bits they left at the scene - plastic air inlet (or something like that) and front number plate (which is now with the Guards). When I went to report it I was told there was no record of current insurance for that vehicle. The registered owner is going to be in trouble one way or other - they either failed to notify a change in ownership, or allowed someone to drive it uninsured, or committed (what I would assume to be) a criminal offence by deliberately ramming my car and then leaving the scene


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 24,937 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    Beasty wrote: »
    ...The registered owner is going to be in trouble one way or other - they either failed to notify a change in ownership, or allowed someone to drive it uninsured, or committed (what I would assume to be) a criminal offence by deliberately ramming my car and then leaving the scene
    It could have been stolen when it crashed into you (although that wouldn't explain why it wasn't insured unless it was kept off public roads by the owner).


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement